Fun fact of the day ....

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Fun fact of the day ....

Aug 12, 2019 | 12:44 1 Why you must at least double or Tripple inoculate even “treated” soybeans ...


We add the liquid inoculant to the G22 Alpine . Takes 100 yards or so for the inoculant to flow through the machine with the Alpine .... very telling . Reply With Quote
Aug 12, 2019 | 14:12 2

That picture does tell 1000 words, but would like to see the pods. Reply With Quote
Aug 12, 2019 | 19:53 3 Agreed Furrow. Very noticeable in fields with previous soybean crops. The more they are grown the better the nodulation. Big kicker is u still need that August rain to make yield. Reply With Quote
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  • Aug 12, 2019 | 23:21 4
    Quote Originally Posted by FarmJunkie View Post
    Agreed Furrow. Very noticeable in fields with previous soybean crops. The more they are grown the better the nodulation. Big kicker is u still need that August rain to make yield.
    Yup and so far we have zero Reply With Quote
    Aug 12, 2019 | 23:22 5
    Quote Originally Posted by sumdumguy View Post

    That picture does tell 1000 words, but would like to see the pods.
    Will do tomorrow Reply With Quote
    Aug 13, 2019 | 06:53 6 So what's your thinking furrow? that the pre-inoculant was defective or there just isn't enough of it? Reply With Quote
    farmaholic's Avatar Aug 13, 2019 | 07:08 7
    Quote Originally Posted by grassfarmer View Post
    So what's your thinking furrow? that the pre-inoculant was defective or there just isn't enough of it?
    How dare you question the possible deficiency or quality of the pre-inoculated seed the SeedCos sell.

    Like the amount of Lumiderm applied to canola seed....who really knows how much of anything has been applied?

    Just pay, and let them blame every possible environmental factor imaginable when their products don't perform. Reply With Quote
  • 1 Like


  • SASKFARMER's Avatar Aug 13, 2019 | 07:15 8 Our last year of growing soy we only were doing 40 or 80 acres put on a field that had soy quite a few times before. Seed arrived we got behind nothing was treated did ok. I think its a game. Reply With Quote
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  • Aug 13, 2019 | 08:56 9 I’ve got some red food colouring for sale - very effective. We always treated our own seed and back in the seventies, there were no protective masks, rubber gloves or ventilators. The old auger and jug with spout treatment did the job. ( Might need the cardboard box thing now to be environmentally endorsed).

    Just a little aside this morn - Coca Cola is greening up their Dasani line of water with..... guess what - aluminum cans. Isn’t that special? Reply With Quote
    Aug 13, 2019 | 09:47 10
    Quote Originally Posted by grassfarmer View Post
    So what's your thinking furrow? that the pre-inoculant was defective or there just isn't enough of it?
    It’s far more effective as fresh inoculant on bare seed seeded within 24 hrs , add seed treatment if needed .
    Seen it three years in a row now
    It’s just a much better approach IMO Reply With Quote
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  • Aug 15, 2019 | 07:15 11


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    Aug 15, 2019 | 07:23 12

    Last time we seen this the yield on proper inoculant was low 30’s , the poor to near zero nodules were 10 bpa
    This might help explain some of the poor yields in Sask the past several years
    Pre inoculant seed may not be adequate at all and at least 2-3 x fresh inoculant is needed to give the soybeans even a chance Reply With Quote
    Aug 15, 2019 | 07:26 13 Soy has a lot of other problems in our area. If it gets that critical august rain, that means a November harvest. If it doesnt then its a write off. Reply With Quote
    Aug 15, 2019 | 07:40 14
    Quote Originally Posted by jazz View Post
    Soy has a lot of other problems in our area. If it gets that critical august rain, that means a November harvest. If it doesnt then its a write off.
    It’s the same every where , here as well .
    But a properly inoculated soybean crop with a healthy big root system will handle dry periods much better as it can source much more soil moisture. Still need August rains for sure , and as of today we have had basically zero . But it will prolong at least a week to ten days over a poor inoculated bean crop before it needs rain . Reply With Quote
    Aug 18, 2019 | 15:31 15 Has anyone tried planting soybeans without Cruiser Maxx Beans in a side by-side trial with CMB? I no longer believe the lines used by the chem co's regarding "Vigor trigger" and full protection, etc. These seed treatments are designed to kill biology in the soil. They are fungi-CIDES (kill). The Bradyrhizobium japonicum strain of bacteria that gets applied to the beans are susceptible to getting killed, or at least quite thinned out by the application of the two simultaneously. I apply these for my clients and after what we saw with 96 replicated trials on our barley, I am planning in the future on only putting on an inoculant and possibly a compost tea biological product to enhance the inoculant efficacy.

    What we found with our trials was quite disturbing. In every one of the 96 trials, there was a significant delay in emergence on the pink treated seed. The replicates treated with a biological only, or even BARE seed, were at least 7 to 9 cm ahead of the pink stuff. When, after 64 trials I called the Rep looking for answers, he was dumbfounded and couldn't offer anything that would explain what I was finding. Taking these out to field scale level, there was a 5 day delay with emergence on the pink compared to the seed treated with just a compost tea seed treatment. Again, why? The rep promised me to get some answers. I am still waiting. As a result of those 96 replicated trials and field scale trials this spring, we only treated one customer with the pink stuff. After hearing what our experiences were, every one of my clients elected to have the biological seed treatment applied. and to date, every one of them has been happy with the results.

    I have grown and sold beans for 11 years, and never once gave it a second thought that what I was applying to the seed was wiping out a large portion of mine and my clients inoculants. This is why I am thinking that double inoculating works so well. In actual fact, we are only single inoculating the "double" as the seed treated inoc is drastically reduced in numbers (or wiped out) by the fungicide doing what it is supposed to. I just drank the Koolaid they were feeding us seed sellers and thanked them for the big cheque we received at the end of the year for peddling their product to our clients.

    By the way, I did get out of the rep that they only do their own in-house trials on soil potting mix...yup...the stuff that has been steam sterilized to kill off ANY biology in the soil. That REALLY represents our farms in field scale conditions, doesn't it?

    To wrap up, farmers need to start doing their own trials, on their own farms, under their management to prove out some of this stuff.

    It is my contention that we as producers have been lulled into the position of having our operations being nothing more than a money laundering facility for multi-national corporations to move their raw product though us and and have us turn it into cash for the benefit of their shareholders.

    Thoughts?

    Patrick Reply With Quote

  • Aug 18, 2019 | 15:57 16
    Quote Originally Posted by seedman View Post
    Has anyone tried planting soybeans without Cruiser Maxx Beans in a side by-side trial with CMB? I no longer believe the lines used by the chem co's regarding "Vigor trigger" and full protection, etc. These seed treatments are designed to kill biology in the soil. They are fungi-CIDES (kill). The Bradyrhizobium japonicum strain of bacteria that gets applied to the beans are susceptible to getting killed, or at least quite thinned out by the application of the two simultaneously. I apply these for my clients and after what we saw with 96 replicated trials on our barley, I am planning in the future on only putting on an inoculant and possibly a compost tea biological product to enhance the inoculant efficacy.

    What we found with our trials was quite disturbing. In every one of the 96 trials, there was a significant delay in emergence on the pink treated seed. The replicates treated with a biological only, or even BARE seed, were at least 7 to 9 cm ahead of the pink stuff. When, after 64 trials I called the Rep looking for answers, he was dumbfounded and couldn't offer anything that would explain what I was finding. Taking these out to field scale level, there was a 5 day delay with emergence on the pink compared to the seed treated with just a compost tea seed treatment. Again, why? The rep promised me to get some answers. I am still waiting. As a result of those 96 replicated trials and field scale trials this spring, we only treated one customer with the pink stuff. After hearing what our experiences were, every one of my clients elected to have the biological seed treatment applied. and to date, every one of them has been happy with the results.

    I have grown and sold beans for 11 years, and never once gave it a second thought that what I was applying to the seed was wiping out a large portion of mine and my clients inoculants. This is why I am thinking that double inoculating works so well. In actual fact, we are only single inoculating the "double" as the seed treated inoc is drastically reduced in numbers (or wiped out) by the fungicide doing what it is supposed to. I just drank the Koolaid they were feeding us seed sellers and thanked them for the big cheque we received at the end of the year for peddling their product to our clients.

    By the way, I did get out of the rep that they only do their own in-house trials on soil potting mix...yup...the stuff that has been steam sterilized to kill off ANY biology in the soil. That REALLY represents our farms in field scale conditions, doesn't it?

    To wrap up, farmers need to start doing their own trials, on their own farms, under their management to prove out some of this stuff.

    It is my contention that we as producers have been lulled into the position of having our operations being nothing more than a money laundering facility for multi-national corporations to move their raw product though us and and have us turn it into cash for the benefit of their shareholders.

    Thoughts?

    Patrick
    I think your bang on Patrick .... our non “treated” beans look excellent and had much faster early growth.
    Combine will tell the tail, I just hope ours make it. Very close to losing them early this morning 🥶 Reply With Quote
    farmaholic's Avatar Aug 18, 2019 | 15:59 17 Yikes....
    I think you may have an ally with furrowtickler.

    Just keep spending and give it everything you can and they offer....every application of product has a predetermined ROI.......for them!

    Bwahahahaha hahaha hahaha.

    I believe most people know fungicides aren't completely selective and only target one fungus.
    Use sparingly and only when required. Besides there are only 3 common groups and a fringe one that I'm aware of.

    Breeding in greater tolerance or resistance is the way to go as far.as I'm concerned.

    So what do seed treatments really get you? Two weeks of protection and then you're on your own?
    We seldom treat anything. Expensive pretty coloured stuff..... Reply With Quote
  • 1 Like


  • Aug 18, 2019 | 18:17 18
    Quote Originally Posted by seedman View Post

    ....It is my contention that we as producers have been lulled into the position of having our operations being nothing more than a money laundering facility for multi-national corporations to move their raw product though us and and have us turn it into cash for the benefit of their shareholders.

    Thoughts?

    Patrick

    I think that's a fair assessment. Reply With Quote

  • GDR
    Aug 18, 2019 | 23:25 19
    Quote Originally Posted by seedman View Post
    Has anyone tried planting soybeans without Cruiser Maxx Beans in a side by-side trial with CMB? I no longer believe the lines used by the chem co's regarding "Vigor trigger" and full protection, etc. These seed treatments are designed to kill biology in the soil. They are fungi-CIDES (kill). The Bradyrhizobium japonicum strain of bacteria that gets applied to the beans are susceptible to getting killed, or at least quite thinned out by the application of the two simultaneously. I apply these for my clients and after what we saw with 96 replicated trials on our barley, I am planning in the future on only putting on an inoculant and possibly a compost tea biological product to enhance the inoculant efficacy.

    What we found with our trials was quite disturbing. In every one of the 96 trials, there was a significant delay in emergence on the pink treated seed. The replicates treated with a biological only, or even BARE seed, were at least 7 to 9 cm ahead of the pink stuff. When, after 64 trials I called the Rep looking for answers, he was dumbfounded and couldn't offer anything that would explain what I was finding. Taking these out to field scale level, there was a 5 day delay with emergence on the pink compared to the seed treated with just a compost tea seed treatment. Again, why? The rep promised me to get some answers. I am still waiting. As a result of those 96 replicated trials and field scale trials this spring, we only treated one customer with the pink stuff. After hearing what our experiences were, every one of my clients elected to have the biological seed treatment applied. and to date, every one of them has been happy with the results.

    I have grown and sold beans for 11 years, and never once gave it a second thought that what I was applying to the seed was wiping out a large portion of mine and my clients inoculants. This is why I am thinking that double inoculating works so well. In actual fact, we are only single inoculating the "double" as the seed treated inoc is drastically reduced in numbers (or wiped out) by the fungicide doing what it is supposed to. I just drank the Koolaid they were feeding us seed sellers and thanked them for the big cheque we received at the end of the year for peddling their product to our clients.

    By the way, I did get out of the rep that they only do their own in-house trials on soil potting mix...yup...the stuff that has been steam sterilized to kill off ANY biology in the soil. That REALLY represents our farms in field scale conditions, doesn't it?

    To wrap up, farmers need to start doing their own trials, on their own farms, under their management to prove out some of this stuff.

    It is my contention that we as producers have been lulled into the position of having our operations being nothing more than a money laundering facility for multi-national corporations to move their raw product though us and and have us turn it into cash for the benefit of their shareholders.

    Thoughts?

    Patrick
    Thanks for sharing your trial and results, much more useful than the usual political nonsense on agriville! Reply With Quote
  • 1 Like


  • Aug 18, 2019 | 23:31 20 Thanks for sharing that info. Not unlike the volunteer canola that germinated with no moisture and the treated stuff just sat and sat until a much bigger rain came. Reply With Quote
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  • Austranada's Avatar Aug 19, 2019 | 04:40 21
    Quote Originally Posted by seedman View Post
    Has anyone tried planting soybeans without Cruiser Maxx Beans in a side by-side trial with CMB? I no longer believe the lines used by the chem co's regarding "Vigor trigger" and full protection, etc. These seed treatments are designed to kill biology in the soil. They are fungi-CIDES (kill). The Bradyrhizobium japonicum strain of bacteria that gets applied to the beans are susceptible to getting killed, or at least quite thinned out by the application of the two simultaneously. I apply these for my clients and after what we saw with 96 replicated trials on our barley, I am planning in the future on only putting on an inoculant and possibly a compost tea biological product to enhance the inoculant efficacy.

    What we found with our trials was quite disturbing. In every one of the 96 trials, there was a significant delay in emergence on the pink treated seed. The replicates treated with a biological only, or even BARE seed, were at least 7 to 9 cm ahead of the pink stuff. When, after 64 trials I called the Rep looking for answers, he was dumbfounded and couldn't offer anything that would explain what I was finding. Taking these out to field scale level, there was a 5 day delay with emergence on the pink compared to the seed treated with just a compost tea seed treatment. Again, why? The rep promised me to get some answers. I am still waiting. As a result of those 96 replicated trials and field scale trials this spring, we only treated one customer with the pink stuff. After hearing what our experiences were, every one of my clients elected to have the biological seed treatment applied. and to date, every one of them has been happy with the results.

    I have grown and sold beans for 11 years, and never once gave it a second thought that what I was applying to the seed was wiping out a large portion of mine and my clients inoculants. This is why I am thinking that double inoculating works so well. In actual fact, we are only single inoculating the "double" as the seed treated inoc is drastically reduced in numbers (or wiped out) by the fungicide doing what it is supposed to. I just drank the Koolaid they were feeding us seed sellers and thanked them for the big cheque we received at the end of the year for peddling their product to our clients.

    By the way, I did get out of the rep that they only do their own in-house trials on soil potting mix...yup...the stuff that has been steam sterilized to kill off ANY biology in the soil. That REALLY represents our farms in field scale conditions, doesn't it?

    To wrap up, farmers need to start doing their own trials, on their own farms, under their management to prove out some of this stuff.

    It is my contention that we as producers have been lulled into the position of having our operations being nothing more than a money laundering facility for multi-national corporations to move their raw product though us and and have us turn it into cash for the benefit of their shareholders.

    Thoughts?

    Patrick
    Well done seedman. Old news here. Big pharma tries to push double and triple rate inoculant to the sheeple. The future of farming is biological as I've said. That's why gly has no future Reply With Quote
    Aug 19, 2019 | 06:17 22 I will agree on the biologicals to a point , but they have a ways to go yet.
    We got promised the world on a product last year , ended up with zero results on 12 trials I did in this area.
    Problem is , like the massive amount of “micro nutrients” that have flooded western Canada the past 5 years there is very little control on these products. They don’t even have to label what’s all in them.
    That should be a big concern to farmers, and the industry . Same goes for the biological products ...... near zero regulation .
    A lot of wild promises are being made with these products , and some have merit in theory , but reality is the farmers will decide .
    It would be interesting if you , Austrandia, could lay off the glyphosate bashing , a product proven to work 99% of the time and show data on the wonders of biologicals . Many on here would actually be interested. But the constant bashing of what we do has gotten so very very old I doubt anyone will listen sadly. Reply With Quote

  • Austranada's Avatar Aug 19, 2019 | 09:07 23 [QUOTE=furrowtickler , but reality is the farmers will decide ..[/QUOTE]

    Reality is the consumer will decide. Reply With Quote
    Aug 19, 2019 | 09:14 24
    Quote Originally Posted by Austranada View Post
    Reality is the consumer will decide.
    So the consumer not worried about biological products with no clue as to effects later or potentially harmful ingredients??? Reply With Quote
    Austranada's Avatar Aug 20, 2019 | 08:17 25
    Quote Originally Posted by furrowtickler View Post
    I will agree on the biologicals to a point , but they have a ways to go yet.
    We got promised the world on a product last year , ended up with zero results on 12 trials I did in this area.
    Problem is , like the massive amount of “micro nutrients” that have flooded western Canada the past 5 years there is very little control on these products. They don’t even have to label what’s all in them.
    That should be a big concern to farmers, and the industry . Same goes for the biological products ...... near zero regulation .
    A lot of wild promises are being made with these products , and some have merit in theory , but reality is the farmers will decide .
    It would be interesting if you , Austrandia, could lay off the glyphosate bashing , a product proven to work 99% of the time and show data on the wonders of biologicals . Many on here would actually be interested. But the constant bashing of what we do has gotten so very very old I doubt anyone will listen sadly.
    Bayer is into biologicals, will you listen to them, will you trust them? Reply With Quote
    Aug 20, 2019 | 08:44 26

    Seems Canada is one of the lowest users of pesticides on the planet. Im guessing it's due to cost. Reply With Quote
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  • Aug 20, 2019 | 09:09 27
    Quote Originally Posted by Austranada View Post
    Bayer is into biologicals, will you listen to them, will you trust them?
    Could care less about Bayer Reply With Quote