China tries to teach Trump economics

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China tries to teach Trump economics

Aug 11, 2019 | 06:48 1 An NY Times article that will challenge the "raw raw" support for Trump's trade war with China here on Agriville.

http://https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/08/opinion/trump-china-trade.html?fbclid=IwAR1aMDv117qw_6WT2wq5j0HHZ4eXcf JYGq-MaBezrs-G6GIkIC8mwzMDmOE

This quote from the concluding paragraph could likely equally be applied to other parts of the administration.

"His administration has been steadily hemorrhaging people who know anything about economics, and reports indicate that Trump isn’t even listening to the band of ignoramuses he has left." Reply With Quote
Aug 11, 2019 | 07:36 2 The Endgame: Cut off all trade with China. Watch all American investment and companies flee that country for other countries. Watch China fall into Depression. Watch Chinese people revolt. Watch Chinese people start civil war. Watch Chinese people drag communist leaders out of buildings and shoot them in street like dogs. Eat popcorn.

Liberal left won't support this plan as they are all commie scum like yourself, but most farmers have no problem taking a hit for the country that makes this life possible. As without the US military power, China or Russia would have annexed Canada long ago and people would be bowing to their Ching-Chong masters. Reply With Quote
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  • Aug 11, 2019 | 07:38 3 While trump causes issues ...other countries are picking up the slack....

    Not Canada because the guy in Ottawa thought he was smarter ...now we can't export to China and Trudeau hates farmers....especially in western Canada. ...

    Opportunity lost....sure Trump didn't help,,, but the problems in Canada are mostly Trudeau's fault....

    You can't keep pointing fingers at Trump and ignoring Trudeau's part in this... Reply With Quote

  • SASKFARMER's Avatar Aug 11, 2019 | 07:45 4 I love guys like grass always blaming the USA for all there problems. They never look in the mirror or look east to Ottawa. Trudeau is the problem and our fool ****ed us so hard we’ll never fully recover. But let’s blame trump.

    We could of been the main suppliers for canola and oil and making real money not planning Pride parades and bringing in useless fools.

    But skippy just keeps skipping and liberals keep on following the fool down the shit hole. Reply With Quote

  • blackpowder's Avatar Aug 11, 2019 | 08:01 5 Trump might be an ignoramus, but grass misspelled rah, rah. Reply With Quote
    Aug 11, 2019 | 08:02 6
    Quote Originally Posted by SASKFARMER View Post
    I love guys like grass always blaming the USA for all there problems. They never look in the mirror or look east to Ottawa. Trudeau is the problem and our fool ****ed us so hard we’ll never fully recover. But let’s blame trump.

    We could of been the main suppliers for canola and oil and making real money not planning Pride parades and bringing in useless fools.

    But skippy just keeps skipping and liberals keep on following the fool down the shit hole.

    Canola oil is still moving to China and the crush margins are great...one reason you won't hear graincos complaining now....

    They can blame the market for lower prices ...make great crush margins....and get help from the government in the form of 150 million in export insurance ....

    And farmers get ignored because ...

    A. The rest of the industry is doing OK

    B. Farm group representatives are invisible and silent.... Reply With Quote

  • Aug 11, 2019 | 08:12 7
    Quote Originally Posted by grassfarmer View Post
    An NY Times article that will challenge the "raw raw" support for Trump's trade war with China here on Agriville.

    http://https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/08/opinion/trump-china-trade.html?fbclid=IwAR1aMDv117qw_6WT2wq5j0HHZ4eXcf JYGq-MaBezrs-G6GIkIC8mwzMDmOE

    This quote from the concluding paragraph could likely equally be applied to other parts of the administration.

    "His administration has been steadily hemorrhaging people who know anything about economics, and reports indicate that Trump isn’t even listening to the band of ignoramuses he has left."
    Grassfarmer I am not a fan of Trump and his policies. Having said that I tend to disagree more than agree with the author of your article Paul Krugman. I do think it is alarming as Krugman points out in the article that one country, China, has the ability to dramatically lower the stock market and the market for corn and soy in the U.S. In both Canada and the U.S. we have agricultural economies built to an extent around the export of oilseeds to China. I think that Trump was one of the few world leaders that recognized the influence China was beginning to have in many countries economies but how he has went about trying to change that influence hasn't been that successful, a lone wolf approach won't work. Unfortunately his tariff war is hurting the American consumer more than it is hurting China! Reply With Quote
    Aug 11, 2019 | 08:19 8 https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/economy/article-the-us-is-on-a-collision-course-with-china-and-canada-could-get/

    The US is on a Collision Course with China and Canada Could Get Hit

    The Globe and Mail had an article about Trump and China this weekend as well.

    Trump's latest volley of proposed tariffs sent commodity prices and the stock market down last week. Thanks Trump!

    China's lower currency values show that they can offset some of the impact of tarrifs.

    Regardless of Trudeau or other Canadian politicians, Canada has little influence with China or the US.

    Trump thinks he can bully China into a deal, but China has a lot tools to fight back. Neither the Chinese government nor American businesses want a trade war. But Trump persists.

    Trump supporters better realize that a prolonged trade war between the US and China will not be good for commodity prices or Canada's economy.

    We are now in the era of America first, even if they cut off their nose to spite their face.
    Last edited by chuckChuck; Aug 11, 2019 at 09:00.
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    Aug 11, 2019 | 08:34 9 Say this slowly and often, No One Wins A Trade War. F.... Trump. Reply With Quote
    Aug 11, 2019 | 08:38 10 https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/aug/11/trump-foreign-policy-venezuela-north-korea-iran-results-2020

    Why Trump’s 'maximum pressure' foreign policy yields minimum results

    The president is heading into 2020 with no major successes and looming crises – so many expect him to attempt to reverse the trend with dramatic deals Reply With Quote
    Aug 11, 2019 | 09:02 11
    Quote Originally Posted by bucket View Post
    While trump causes issues ...other countries are picking up the slack....
    This statement should tell everyone they need to know about the US. Why do countries like china or Europe not run to some other countries for their trade if Trump is so mean.

    BECAUSE they need the US. They need those rich consumers, they need the banks, they need the currency, they need the financing, they need the technology.

    Trump put tariffs on almost $500B of Chinese goods and all we are doing is holding one of their people in house arrest and afternoon shopping. China could announce tomorrow they will get all their ag from Canada. Nope, they need the US more than anything. Reply With Quote
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  • Aug 11, 2019 | 09:12 12 chuck and grass are messed if they think the US loses this. In just a few years the US has cut off chinas path to super power.

    Trump Is Making Xi’s Superpower 2050 Plan Tougher by the Day

    If you don't want to read it all, I will summarize. The US consumer is 6-10 times richer than the Chinese one. For china to convert to a domestic economy that gap needs to close fast and with their GDP edging downward to something half of what they were used to, China will need massive stimulus to keep it going. They will hit the middle income trap well before their domestic economy can take off and likely with a debt burden several times what the US has. Reply With Quote

  • Aug 11, 2019 | 09:14 13 I find it ironic that supporters of Communist China like to point out that they are playing the long game, and making plans for far into the future, as opposed to our just in time, instant gratification society.

    Then, when decisions are made by US which will and are causing short term pain, in exchange for long term prosperity, no credit is given for this foresight.

    And the US is free to cut off their own nose to spite their face, uniquely in the world, a newly energy independent US can afford to do so. They uniquely in the world can afford to pay their farmers billions of borrowed dollars to compensate them for damage caused by the trade war, amongst countless other frivolous or unnecssary spending and printing, and still have their currency appreciate against all others. I can't even imagine how much it pains the USA haters to have to admit such things, but you can watch it unfold in real time. You don't have to agree with it, but you might as well accept it.

    The US has the resources, demographics, population, security, and finances to screw everything up, and still come back smelling like roses. China has none of those things going for it. Reply With Quote

  • Aug 11, 2019 | 09:22 14
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckChuck View Post
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/aug/11/trump-foreign-policy-venezuela-north-korea-iran-results-2020

    Why Trump’s 'maximum pressure' foreign policy yields minimum results

    The president is heading into 2020 with no major successes and looming crises – so many expect him to attempt to reverse the trend with dramatic deals
    Again ..... Trump Trump Trump ...
    WTF is Canada heading into 2020 looking like ??? Worry about home !!! Reply With Quote
    blackpowder's Avatar Aug 11, 2019 | 09:26 15 Agree. In 300 years there will likely be a China. Not so sure about us. Reply With Quote
    Aug 11, 2019 | 09:27 16
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckChuck View Post

    The president is heading into 2020 with no major successes and looming crises – so many expect him to attempt to reverse the trend with dramatic deals
    Imagine that, a politician who doesn't attempt to appeal to the instant gratification voters with immediate results, regardless of what the long term cost of that might be. A politician who likely doesn't care if he gets back in, since his finances, career, and cover ups (and that of all his friends) are not dependent on it.

    Does anyone realistically expect that anyone can undo decades of damage within a single election cycle? No, which is why no other politician will even attempt it, since there is no political capital to be gained by doing something which will yield results years into the future, not today.

    And the really crazy part, as the Democratic party continues to tear itself apart by trying to see who can be more radically left than the other, Trump will likely get back in again. Reply With Quote
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  • Aug 11, 2019 | 09:29 17 Is there any stats how many people are rushing to get into China. Reply With Quote
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  • Aug 11, 2019 | 09:35 18
    Quote Originally Posted by blackjack View Post
    Is there any stats how many people are rushing to get into China.
    I seem to recall a large segment of Hong Kong's population showing some mild displeasure at the prospect of being compelled to get into China recently...

    Oh, and a few Canadians sitting in jails who wish they had never set foot in the country.

    Actually, I just looked it up, net migration into China has been negative every year for the lasts 60 years which have data. Guess which direction migration into the US is, even under Trump? Reply With Quote
    Aug 11, 2019 | 09:35 19 The world economy is indeed integrated.

    If either the US or China suffers economic problems then we all are affected. Especially Canada which is dependent on exports to both.

    The slow down from hyper growth in China to moderate or low growth rates is what triggered the declines in oil and commodity prices in the last while.

    Putting additional tariffs on trade will slow down trade even further which will put additional pressure on commodity prices.

    If you think Trump's trade policies and a China US trade war are good for you, then don't complain about the resulting low commodity prices and trade issues.

    Trump will need a good outcome leading up to the 2020 election. If the US economy starts to sputter it will look bad on Trump. China would be happy to see him gone so don't expect them to roll over easily. Reply With Quote
    Aug 11, 2019 | 09:40 20
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckChuck View Post
    The world economy is indeed integrated.
    Let me fix that for you.

    The world economy exists because a percentage of western GDP has been siphoned off in the name of socialized globalization. The US is only 4% export based, I would say they are immune. Reply With Quote
    Aug 11, 2019 | 09:44 21
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckChuck View Post
    The world economy is indeed integrated.

    If either the US or China suffers economic problems then we all are affected. Especially Canada which is dependent on exports to both.

    The slow down from hyper growth in China to moderate or low growth rates is what triggered the declines in oil and commodity prices in the last while.

    Putting additional tariffs on trade will slow down trade even further which will put additional pressure on commodity prices.

    If you think Trump's trade policies and a China US trade war are good for you, then don't complain about the resulting low commodity prices and trade issues.

    Trump will need a good outcome leading up to the 2020 election. If the US economy starts to sputter it will look bad on Trump. China would be happy to see him gone so don't expect them to roll over easily.

    Speaking of the instant gratification crowd...

    So, you will willingly trade short term improved commodity prices for long term having a brutal communist dominant world superpower? Reply With Quote
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  • Aug 11, 2019 | 09:48 22 Thanks for that AB5.... Reply With Quote
    Aug 11, 2019 | 10:07 23
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckChuck View Post
    The world economy is indeed integrated.

    If either the US or China suffers economic problems then we all are affected. Especially Canada which is dependent on exports to both.

    The slow down from hyper growth in China to moderate or low growth rates is what triggered the declines in oil and commodity prices in the last while.

    Putting additional tariffs on trade will slow down trade even further which will put additional pressure on commodity prices.

    If you think Trump's trade policies and a China US trade war are good for you, then don't complain about the resulting low commodity prices and trade issues.

    Trump will need a good outcome leading up to the 2020 election. If the US economy starts to sputter it will look bad on Trump. China would be happy to see him gone so don't expect them to roll over easily.
    How’s Canada’s trade policies working lately ????
    We are heading for our own national election before the US election but all you can deflect about is Trump ...
    We have a gong show right here in Canada ..... now , and it’s always Trump Trump Trump.
    We have much bigger problems here at home and our next generation farmers here in western Canada, yes our kids will be @&$ked if this does not change this fall . Open your eyes to what’s going on here at home chuck ..... Reply With Quote
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  • Aug 11, 2019 | 10:16 24 Only simpletons would equate criticisms of Trump and Trump policies as support for China!

    As flawed as the US is, it is still a more important ally for Canada and Europe and most of the world.

    A few months ago several Agriville supporters were praising Putin and his policies. 20 years in power?
    A dictatorship more or less. Friend of Trump? Seems like oppressive undemocratic leadership is not a problem for several agriville posters.

    I don't take partisan views of the state of Canada as accurate. All this doom and gloom is just politics. The knee jerk blaming Trudeau and liberals for everything is just a laugh. Trudeau has been a big disappointment. But hyper partisans have their own distorted and exaggerated view of everything. Reasonable people can see through the bullshit.
    Last edited by chuckChuck; Aug 11, 2019 at 10:27.
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    Aug 11, 2019 | 10:51 25
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckChuck View Post
    Only simpletons would equate criticisms of Trump and Trump policies as support for China!

    As flawed as the US is, it is still a more important ally for Canada and Europe and most of the world.

    A few months ago several Agriville supporters were praising Putin and his policies. 20 years in power?
    A dictatorship more or less. Friend of Trump? Seems like oppressive undemocratic leadership is not a problem for several agriville posters.

    I don't take partisan views of the state of Canada as accurate. All this doom and gloom is just politics. The knee jerk blaming Trudeau and liberals for everything is just a laugh. Trudeau has been a big disappointment. But hyper partisans have their own distorted and exaggerated view of everything. Reasonable people can see through the bullshit.
    Well, that sounds like a very reasonable non-partisan and balanced point of view. Has anyone been keeping score of how many anti Trump vs anti Trudeau posts Chuck has made? Reply With Quote
    Aug 11, 2019 | 11:15 26 Another job for simpletons? Why don't you do it yourself and then draw your usual unsubstantiated conclusions and speculations? LOL Reply With Quote
    Aug 11, 2019 | 12:07 27 Agree with Chuck.

    If Trump ran China and Clinton USA, there where be a lot of China-loving, USA bashing.


    The America worshipping from some is downright scary. Easy to draw parallels to other fanatical leader-worshiping in history past.


    America is threatened by a new world order China-Russia-FSU-India-South America have all the same resources and far more people. If allowed to flourish they would quickly eclipse the USA-Canada-Europe-Australia-Japan alliance.

    This isn't a one-sided battle, and there will be heavy [economic, societal] casualties on both sides, make no mistake.

    Just like in both WW's. Canada and the Canadian people, not directly involved but at the front line and suffering heavy losses. Reply With Quote
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  • Aug 11, 2019 | 12:57 28
    Quote Originally Posted by Zephyr View Post
    Agree with Chuck.

    If Trump ran China and Clinton USA, there where be a lot of China-loving, USA bashing.


    The America worshipping from some is downright scary. Easy to draw parallels to other fanatical leader-worshiping in history past.


    America is threatened by a new world order China-Russia-FSU-India-South America have all the same resources and far more people. If allowed to flourish they would quickly eclipse the USA-Canada-Europe-Australia-Japan alliance.

    This isn't a one-sided battle, and there will be heavy [economic, societal] casualties on both sides, make no mistake.

    Just like in both WW's. Canada and the Canadian people, not directly involved but at the front line and suffering heavy losses.
    Agreed , but If we actually had a leader here in Canada we would have trade deals done with India and China 2 months ago.
    All the other exporting nations are eating our lunch while Peter Pan dances around and has zero clue on trade just like the rest of his cabinet. Reply With Quote
    Aug 11, 2019 | 13:06 29
    Quote Originally Posted by Zephyr View Post
    Agree with Chuck.

    If Trump ran China and Clinton USA, there where be a lot of China-loving, USA bashing.
    It is scary how many people are holding on the the false hope that this change in US foreign policy is purely a partisan issue, and as soon as Trump is gone, the global order we knew and loved, and prospered under will be returned.

    Who we love, or hate, or admire has nothing to do with adapting to the new reality. Go ahead and hate the despicable personality that is Trump, but don't let that hatred blind you to making the appropriate decisions to survive the economic disruption. Reply With Quote
    Aug 11, 2019 | 15:50 30 A newspaper here suggests the currency war is over blown but not tarriff issue.

    Some of you smarter than i qill understand this and i quote "to directly counteract chinas currency devaluation US treasury should begin countervailing currency intervention. This would work by purchasing chinese yuan denominated assests to bid up the value of the yuan and cancel out effects of currency manipulation by china"

    According to author china always props its currency up even whgen it shouldnt this time it didnt.

    Beyond me. Reply With Quote