Cbc video on farm transfer

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Cbc video on farm transfer

GDR
Jul 15, 2019 | 21:05 1 https://gem.cbc.ca/media/media/short-docs/episode-170/38e815a-011451e9a1e

Video is a bit slow but general idea is nice. Old single farmer helping a young couple take over his farm because he didnt have family that wanted too. Don't know why more guys don't try to make it happen. For some its just a business asset but for most a farm is everything. Reply With Quote
Jul 15, 2019 | 21:10 2
Quote Originally Posted by GDR View Post
https://gem.cbc.ca/media/media/short-docs/episode-170/38e815a-011451e9a1e

Video is a bit slow but general idea is nice. Old single farmer helping a young couple take over his farm because he didnt have family that wanted too. Don't know why more guys don't try to make it happen. For some its just a business asset but for most a farm is everything.
Did they highlight the generational land transfer to Input Capital Corporation?
I lost track but it has to be around 20 million in their favour by now.
Last edited by hobbyfrmr; Jul 15, 2019 at 21:14.
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Jul 15, 2019 | 21:31 3
Quote Originally Posted by GDR View Post
https://gem.cbc.ca/media/media/short-docs/episode-170/38e815a-011451e9a1e

Video is a bit slow but general idea is nice. Old single farmer helping a young couple take over his farm because he didnt have family that wanted too. Don't know why more guys don't try to make it happen. For some its just a business asset but for most a farm is everything.
Resonates very much with me and it's a practice that will have to become more common with the ageing demographic on the farm. Reply With Quote
Jul 15, 2019 | 21:39 4 You guys ever notice how one generation never takes the reigns?


Sometimes it goes from grandpa to grandson....or when grandpa retires so does the son and grandson... Reply With Quote
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  • Jul 15, 2019 | 22:06 5 I love fairy tales.

    If you find someone like this drop me a line, I will help find a worthy recipient of the benevolence. Reply With Quote
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  • ajl
    Jul 15, 2019 | 22:16 6 I am wondering if young Jon is paying Jim current inflated market value for his farm? It will take several generations then to pay for it and start making profits off of it. Reply With Quote
    Jul 15, 2019 | 22:22 7
    Quote Originally Posted by ajl View Post
    I am wondering if young Jon is paying Jim current inflated market value for his farm? It will take several generations then to pay for it and start making profits off of it.
    To some people it's not about money...if there is no generation and the old guy is comfortable. ...maybe he doesn't need millions... Reply With Quote
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  • GDR
    Jul 15, 2019 | 22:43 8
    Quote Originally Posted by bucket View Post
    To some people it's not about money...if there is no generation and the old guy is comfortable. ...maybe he doesn't need millions...
    Agree, you cant take it with you, and by the time most are old enough to quit any non farming children are likely far enough along in life to not need a mighty inheritance. Instead of buying the old guy out if the young guy basically were to provide a living allowance for life of the older generation wouldn't that be good for everyone. Reply With Quote
    Jul 16, 2019 | 06:40 9
    Quote Originally Posted by westernvicki View Post
    I love fairy tales.

    If you find someone like this drop me a line, I will help find a worthy recipient of the benevolence.
    I know of several in progress actually. We are involved in it ourselves in a small way. Here is the article some were alluding to a while back on our story. Not to boast but to get more people thinking about a succession model I think is critical if we are to keep family farms alive on the prairie when the current generation need to transition out.
    http://https://www.country-guide.ca/guide-business/the-way-it-happens/ Reply With Quote
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    GDR

  • farmaholic's Avatar Jul 16, 2019 | 06:41 10 I got the warm fuzzy CBC feeling when I watched it last night, it must have been the liquor though!

    Kinda a bit of a fantasy though, by far the exception not the rule. Bet it rarely ever happens.....BUT....

    My buddy(a bachelor with two siblings and one niece) who died of brain cancer in April had 6 quarters of grain land, he sold one to the local BTO, sold 4 to his first cousin and willed the home quarter to some one completely "unrelated", not even a "lifetime" friend. People in the community are a little puzzled.

    I respect his decision but don't understand it. His family, ESPECIALLY his sister, helped him alot since his diagnosis and deterioration. Even other people in the community stepped up and helped him stay in his own home as long as he could, which was up until the day before he died. So yes, "stranger" things have happened. This guy inherited a property probably worth about $600K+....
    Last edited by farmaholic; Jul 16, 2019 at 07:10.
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    Jul 16, 2019 | 07:13 11 While I am sure there are exceptions, its unlikely this model will catch on. Imagine that farmers mindset. he has worked for 30+ yrs probably, seen a lot of shit, now his own family doesnt want anything to do with it. I highly doubt he is going to feel real generous at that time. Reply With Quote
    Jul 16, 2019 | 07:23 12 Love warm and fuzzy too, we all know folk who would love to farm but do not have land. Indeed they would treasure the gift beyond measure. Salutes to those who chose this route and to the families who support the legacy of those who chose to give this gift. My bet its complicated, always is when it comes to inheritance. Reply With Quote
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  • Jul 16, 2019 | 07:49 13
    Quote Originally Posted by westernvicki View Post
    Love warm and fuzzy too, we all know folk who would love to farm but do not have land. Indeed they would treasure the gift beyond measure. Salutes to those who chose this route and to the families who support the legacy of those who chose to give this gift. My bet its complicated, always is when it comes to inheritance.
    Be careful with this narrative that young farmers are so humble and virtuous. They work the other way too. I have seen personally the aw shucks type come in and want a little break only to turn into a tyrant later on. My dad fell for someone like this. Reply With Quote
    Jul 16, 2019 | 08:27 14 In my opinion, Jim wants nothing more then to pass down hard won knowledge, and see himself, as he seen his father when he was first starting out. I feel like he thinks he earned that right after a life devoted to the farm. Reply With Quote
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    GDR

  • Jul 16, 2019 | 08:43 15 While I have made my disdain for any type of government meddling in private business very clear, this is one case where I could justify it.

    If you take the position that rural areas, and the economy as a whole would be better off with more smaller family farms( and that is of course a debate all to itself...), then using the tax structure and incentives to encourage a retiring farmer, ( or any other business for that matter) to split up the operation and allow multiple players to buy smaller portions, rather than it all going to his own kids, or getting amalgamated into an even bigger neighbor could accomplish this.

    Tax incentives such as being able to write off not only interest, but also principal on your first properties for any genuinely new farmer. And capital gains breaks for selling land in separate parcels to genuinely new farmers. Need a carrot and stick so perhaps renting your land out for decades instead of selling it and giving someone else a chance has big tax and capital gains implications.

    This comes back to my assumption that inheritance/lineage doesn't guarantee that we always get the best person for the job. Just because your great grandpa worked really really hard, invested wisely, took the right risks at the right time and was a really good farmer, doesn't mean you also have those same qualities. There may be many others much better qualified and motivated, but they will never get the chance thanks to the inheritance model.

    Let 10 young people make an attempt, instead of having it all go into one BTO's oepration, and perhaps 9 will fail and only one of the 10 will end up owning/farming it all after a decade anyways, but at least it will assure that the best candidate wins it fair and square.

    Lots of complications ( a big farm in the fraser valley is different than the QuAppelle valley, no one size fits all definition), room for abuse etc.

    BTO's aren't a big issue around here, and no sour grapes on my part, but this country is full of land that isn't producing even a small fraction of its potential, or doesn't even get farmed at all or rarely. And a common theme is the owners never payed a cent to acquire it, so have little motivation to make it pay for itself, meanwhile there are lots of young guys and girls who would kill for an opportunity to farm on any scale, but they rarely present themselves.
    Last edited by AlbertaFarmer5; Jul 16, 2019 at 08:46.
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    nop

  • Jul 16, 2019 | 09:02 16
    Quote Originally Posted by AlbertaFarmer5 View Post
    While I have made my disdain for any type of government meddling in private business very clear, this is one case where I could justify it.

    If you take the position that rural areas, and the economy as a whole would be better off with more smaller family farms( and that is of course a debate all to itself...), then using the tax structure and incentives to encourage a retiring farmer, ( or any other business for that matter) to split up the operation and allow multiple players to buy smaller portions, rather than it all going to his own kids, or getting amalgamated into an even bigger neighbor could accomplish this.

    Tax incentives such as being able to write off not only interest, but also principal on your first properties for any genuinely new farmer. And capital gains breaks for selling land in separate parcels to genuinely new farmers. Need a carrot and stick so perhaps renting your land out for decades instead of selling it and giving someone else a chance has big tax and capital gains implications.

    This comes back to my assumption that inheritance/lineage doesn't guarantee that we always get the best person for the job. Just because your great grandpa worked really really hard, invested wisely, took the right risks at the right time and was a really good farmer, doesn't mean you also have those same qualities. There may be many others much better qualified and motivated, but they will never get the chance thanks to the inheritance model.

    Let 10 young people make an attempt, instead of having it all go into one BTO's oepration, and perhaps 9 will fail and only one of the 10 will end up owning/farming it all after a decade anyways, but at least it will assure that the best candidate wins it fair and square.

    Lots of complications ( a big farm in the fraser valley is different than the QuAppelle valley, no one size fits all definition), room for abuse etc.

    BTO's aren't a big issue around here, and no sour grapes on my part, but this country is full of land that isn't producing even a small fraction of its potential, or doesn't even get farmed at all or rarely. And a common theme is the owners never payed a cent to acquire it, so have little motivation to make it pay for itself, meanwhile there are lots of young guys and girls who would kill for an opportunity to farm on any scale, but they rarely present themselves.
    Like the ideas but BTOs have more input into political things than the the smaller first try guy.....pun intended if you caught it... Reply With Quote
    fjlip's Avatar Jul 16, 2019 | 10:13 17 Turdo gets a big CUT if you give/sell to unrelated currently... Reply With Quote
    blackpowder's Avatar Jul 16, 2019 | 10:31 18 Capital gains tax hastens the amalgamation for sure. Like the idea of a break if sold to qualified young buyer.
    A lot of land gonna change hands here soon looking at the age of owners.

    In doing my own estate. Because kids are still minors.
    Everything to a young unrelated guy with farming under his fingernails. He has to manage trusts for kids until adult, and gets first right to rent and purchase at half market.
    My reasoning was: To hell with siblings who left at 17. They sure came back when Ma died. And BTOs.
    And greedy woman who I swapped genetics with. And her lawyer. And kids who will just blow it. They'll have funds for education. But it'll go to toys anyway.
    Where the hell was a guy like me when I was younger. Giving someone the chance I never had.
    And no, I don't let him take me fishing..... Lol. Reply With Quote
    ajl
    Jul 16, 2019 | 21:29 19 Well if the government would stop printing money, land would not have speculative value in its price tag and then suddenly there would be a lot more people who could hope to own land by working hard and saving towards that goal. Having asset prices inflate at a pace far more rapid than you can save is the reason so many are shut out of opportunities and why rural communities are dying. Sound money would solve 95% of this problem. But we are so used to voodoo economics of artificially cheap credit blowing asset bubbles that sound money is a foreign concept. Old guys keep hoarding high priced assets until they die. Many farmers got a start or chance to grow after the deflation of the 1980's. Reply With Quote
    farmaholic's Avatar Jul 16, 2019 | 21:40 20
    Quote Originally Posted by ajl View Post
    ..............more people who could hope to own land by working hard and saving towards that goal. Having asset prices inflate at a pace far more rapid than you can save ......... Sound money would solve 95% of this problem. But we are so used to voodoo economics of artificially cheap credit blowing asset bubbles that sound money is a foreign concept............. Many farmers got a start or chance to grow after the deflation of the 1980's.

    Even if you couldn't save enough because of hyper inflation......it hardly makes any sense no matter how you look at current land values.....even if you can pay cash! I seriously think the hyper inflation is done and history might be repeating itself and a correction could be around the corner. Some people got to the party late. Reply With Quote
    Jul 16, 2019 | 21:57 21
    Quote Originally Posted by ajl View Post
    Well if the government would stop printing money, land would not have speculative value in its price tag...
    It's not a new phenomenon - A neighbour of ours bought a farm in the early 1960s and everybody was shaking their heads saying 50,000 was crazy money to pay for it and he'd never get it back. Would make at least 2.5 million now. Land always has a speculative value. Reply With Quote
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  • farmaholic's Avatar Jul 16, 2019 | 22:03 22
    Quote Originally Posted by grassfarmer View Post
    It's not a new phenomenon - A neighbour of ours bought a farm in the early 1960s and everybody was shaking their heads saying 50,000 was crazy money to pay for it and he'd never get it back. Would make at least 2.5 million now. Land always has a speculative value.
    Its the time short time frame of the last Saskland run up that is alarming.

    Although we were lagging.
    Last edited by farmaholic; Jul 16, 2019 at 22:40.
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    blackpowder's Avatar Jul 16, 2019 | 23:29 23 Ya, I think you guys are dealing in ifs. Reply With Quote
    Jul 17, 2019 | 00:24 24
    Quote Originally Posted by grassfarmer View Post
    I know of several in progress actually. We are involved in it ourselves in a small way. Here is the article some were alluding to a while back on our story. Not to boast but to get more people thinking about a succession model I think is critical if we are to keep family farms alive on the prairie when the current generation need to transition out.
    http://https://www.country-guide.ca/guide-business/the-way-it-happens/
    Thanks for posting the article, and kudos to you for making it happen.

    This is exactly the scenario I was referring to in the other post. Allowing an opportunity to people who might think completely outside of the box, and who bring a totally different perspective, who otherwise wouldn't get the chance to potentially change the entire business model.

    All the whining on here that you need countless thousands of acres to be viable, even after inheriting it, yet these folks apparently are making a living off of a small fraction of that. I would be all in favor of you getting a tax break for doing so, and them likewise.

    And I'd never heard of Luing cattle before, what are their advantages? Reply With Quote
    Jul 17, 2019 | 06:29 25
    Quote Originally Posted by AlbertaFarmer5 View Post
    And I'd never heard of Luing cattle before, what are their advantages?
    Compared to Angus - better cold adaption, beef quality and grazing efficiency (their willingness to utilize a wider variety of forages). Reply With Quote
    Jul 17, 2019 | 06:59 26
    Quote Originally Posted by grassfarmer View Post
    I know of several in progress actually. We are involved in it ourselves in a small way. Here is the article some were alluding to a while back on our story. Not to boast but to get more people thinking about a succession model I think is critical if we are to keep family farms alive on the prairie when the current generation need to transition out.
    http://https://www.country-guide.ca/guide-business/the-way-it-happens/
    Really interesting , grass , good for you
    I have thought about this same thing myself many times
    if it all works out in the end , its so much better than seeing your lifes work go down the road at an auction
    just having someone appreciate what you have accomplished is enough sometimes
    money is not the be all , end all for everyone Reply With Quote
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  • Jul 17, 2019 | 08:27 27 Farming is how we make our living but the value of that is only partly measured in dollar returns. Another important part is our inherited generational knowledge of agriculture and our stewardship of the land. We often don’t get the recognition we deserve for that from wider society but I think it’s important we maintain the continuity for future generations. Reply With Quote
    Jul 17, 2019 | 08:32 28
    Quote Originally Posted by westernvicki View Post
    Love warm and fuzzy too, we all know folk who would love to farm but do not have land. Indeed they would treasure the Nox Vidmate VLC gift beyond measure. Salutes to those who chose this route and to the families who support the legacy of those who chose to give this gift. My bet its complicated, always is when it comes to inheritance.
    It will take several generations then to pay for it and start making profits off of it.
    Last edited by javar.lucious; Jul 17, 2019 at 15:09.
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    Jul 17, 2019 | 08:42 29
    Quote Originally Posted by javar.lucious View Post
    It will take several generations then to pay for it and start making profits off of it.
    With conventional agriculture and conventional thinking perhaps. There are other ways to do it. Reply With Quote
    Jul 17, 2019 | 08:57 30 I could be mistaken but I think the show mentioned he was an electrician with a job...

    Good chance for the next few years he gets all his job's income tax refunded and he can put that into the farm...

    Good on the old guy for helping the young guy....good for community , and the industry....


    How do some ads go......some things are priceless....this happens to be one of them...

    I have watched many guys have it paid forward to them only to become pretty selfish greedy pricks....dont see that in this young guy ...

    I do question the young guys thinking of wanting to farm until he's the old guys age when he would be retired from being an electrician a lot earlier.... Reply With Quote