Ilta Grain

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Ilta Grain

Jul 16, 2019 | 00:15 61
Quote Originally Posted by farmaholic View Post
Some people could still end up getting a rubber cheque. But at least the A/P account wouldn't get so big before the red flag goes up.
No I’m saying they put the money in this holding account it’s verified by CGC or whom ever as being there and it only gets used to pay for grain purchases. Reply With Quote
Jul 16, 2019 | 00:32 62 Any trust left in this industry has been irreparably damaged from this fiasco. If your guard wasn't up with all special crop buyers before it should be now. Will be interesting to see how proceeds from sales of product delivered gets allocated amongst creditors like FCC. Farmers didn't lend ilta the funds to overspend on expansion so FCC should be moved to the bottom of the list but we certainly know that won't happen. So much gross incompetence while farmers are left without a chair when the music stops. Reply With Quote

  • Jul 16, 2019 | 02:42 63 interesting post but not "likeable"

    guessing maybe 25 different guys have posted with comments am i correct it seems none of you had any idea other one think was it hobby or furrow?

    occasionally and i mean very i think ive had 3 phone calls from grain broker over the 12 years ive been with him ...weve ceased to deal with so and so, some late payment stories about etc etc sure enough the companies in question were belly up within 3 months so bad news travels quick amongst farmers but you guyys were caught "off guard"

    Sadly though farmers are always "unsecured" creditors

    A true story here a grain trader "river city grain" google it you will find it, anyway had a storage facitlity and some ridiculous figure in excess of 20 plus thousand tonne just "vanished" as creditors and law were turning up the heat yep gone in about 2 weeks and nobody knew it and never been recovered. Oh ps he owned a transport bussiness as well but someone must have bought the grain at a bargain price.

    You canadians are above such shenanigans Reply With Quote
    Jul 16, 2019 | 05:20 64
    Quote Originally Posted by wiseguy View Post
    The money from the grain is somewhere and it ain't in the Farmers pocket !
    And someone or more than one knew that they couldn't or weren't going to make obligations and didn't say a word to farmers still delivering. They should be held accountable. Shouldn't be blaming companies when it is the human beings running the companies. Reply With Quote

  • Jul 16, 2019 | 05:31 65
    Quote Originally Posted by bucket View Post
    That and they were left the 250 million dollar bank account....that was the purchase price....
    A gift from Gerry. Reply With Quote
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  • Jul 16, 2019 | 05:34 66
    Quote Originally Posted by malleefarmer View Post
    interesting post but not "likeable"

    guessing maybe 25 different guys have posted with comments am i correct it seems none of you had any idea other one think was it hobby or furrow?

    occasionally and i mean very i think ive had 3 phone calls from grain broker over the 12 years ive been with him ...weve ceased to deal with so and so, some late payment stories about etc etc sure enough the companies in question were belly up within 3 months so bad news travels quick amongst farmers but you guyys were caught "off guard"

    Sadly though farmers are always "unsecured" creditors

    A true story here a grain trader "river city grain" google it you will find it, anyway had a storage facitlity and some ridiculous figure in excess of 20 plus thousand tonne just "vanished" as creditors and law were turning up the heat yep gone in about 2 weeks and nobody knew it and never been recovered. Oh ps he owned a transport bussiness as well but someone must have bought the grain at a bargain price.

    You canadians are above such shenanigans
    I think no farmers saw this coming or else they would not be delivered the grain. The Canadian Grain Commission is the regulator, they are responsible to collect monthly audit reports from the licensed grain buyers.
    It is really that simple. Literally, a child could administrate this. I am thinking probably grade 5 or 6 math. Collect the audit reports submitted from the buyers, add them to a spreadsheet of some kind, analyze the data and then act upon the numbers submitted. I am thinking green light , Amber light, red light type of analysis.
    The CGC has thrice shit the bed. There is no other mature way to describe their incompetence. Reply With Quote
    Jul 16, 2019 | 05:57 67
    Quote Originally Posted by hobbyfrmr View Post
    This is fully and completely the Canadian Grain Commission’s fault.
    Those ****ing incompetent donkeys not only shit the bed but they rolled around in it and rubbed all over themselves.
    The policy is grain buyers have to submit a monthly audit to the CGC. ****ing Naber seeds went bankrupt twice on the Canadian Grain Comissions’s watch, plus Newco. Ilta should NEVER have been allowed to operate this long.
    If there is 150 million owing the people on the list of creditors they should designate 10% to hire Tony Merchant and sue the ****ing Canadian Grain Commission.

    No, I did not get stung by Itla, but I despise ****ing chronically useless bureaucrats. This NEVER NEVER NEVER should have happened.

    You cannot keep telling the farmes the CGC is under funded. That is more bullshit. How hard is it to collect audits from grain companies and processors? How hard is it to suspend their license before they owe 150 million dollars?

    Send a proper message sue those useless ****s maybe they will get fired instead of a bonus for fogging a mirror in the office of the CGC.
    This is a really really good post
    This is what needs to happen
    Some accountability needs to return
    You will never get more than 2 cents on the dollar
    Its a scam that has been going on to long and these useless c$&ts at the govt are part of it
    Like hobby said nabors did it twice here Reply With Quote
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  • Jul 16, 2019 | 06:01 68
    Quote Originally Posted by wiseguy View Post
    The money from the grain is somewhere and it ain't in the Farmers pocket !
    F$&ken rights
    Thats the point of it all
    F$&k FCC and all the rest that partnered with them
    Sue the CGC , time to take some control back Reply With Quote
    Jul 16, 2019 | 06:26 69
    Quote Originally Posted by hobbyfrmr View Post
    I think no farmers saw this coming or else they would not be delivered the grain. The Canadian Grain Commission is the regulator, they are responsible to collect monthly audit reports from the licensed grain buyers.
    It is really that simple. Literally, a child could administrate this. I am thinking probably grade 5 or 6 math. Collect the audit reports submitted from the buyers, add them to a spreadsheet of some kind, analyze the data and then act upon the numbers submitted. I am thinking green light , Amber light, red light type of analysis.
    The CGC has thrice shit the bed. There is no other mature way to describe their incompetence.
    What numbers do they get though? Do they get the complete numbers of the business expenses and income or do they just get what’s coming in from the buyers buyer? If the company is for example handing out pay bonuses to the management staff or had to repair major equipment is that given to cgc? Is it a complete financial picture? Because if it is then there has to be something fraudulent going on to be buying knowing you don’t have rhe funds. Does someone know? Reply With Quote
    Jul 16, 2019 | 07:07 70 The issue, is grower protection for commodities delivered, and maintaining a system for an industry to execute business.


    The bond is the system where companies set aside sufficient protection in the form of a bond, to cover the cash flow necessary.

    As noted earlier in my comment: if the CGC was doing their job and if ITLA was reporting accurately & timely the insurable crops would be covered under the bond. Uninsurable crops, like canary were never covered.

    The question that should be at all farm associations next meeting is this:
    1/
    Did the bond work.
    IF not why?

    2/
    Uninsured crops:
    does the industry want to include more crops & operations outside the bond jurisdiction.


    Ag is in a paradigm change, these questions are all valid for today and for the future. Reply With Quote
    Jul 16, 2019 | 07:21 71 Not sure about financial audits but if it is anything like the stock audits today it is a joke!

    3rd party and self reporting/regulation that was implemented doesn't work when no person is accountable. Reply With Quote
    Jul 16, 2019 | 07:24 72
    Quote Originally Posted by westernvicki View Post
    The issue, is grower protection for commodities delivered, and maintaining a system for an industry to execute business.


    The bond is the system where companies set aside sufficient protection in the form of a bond, to cover the cash flow necessary.

    As noted earlier in my comment: if the CGC was doing their job and if ITLA was reporting accurately & timely the insurable crops would be covered under the bond. Uninsurable crops, like canary were never covered.

    The question that should be at all farm associations next meeting is this:
    1/
    Did the bond work.
    IF not why?

    2/
    Uninsured crops:
    does the industry want to include more crops & operations outside the bond jurisdiction.


    Ag is in a paradigm change, these questions are all valid for today and for the future.
    So what do you mean the bond is posted. What does that exactly mean? Complete financial or does it just mean the buyers buyer will pay them? Is there actually physical money in a bond fund set aside? Or is it just my word yes I can pay?
    Last edited by the big wheel; Jul 16, 2019 at 07:29.
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    Jul 16, 2019 | 07:28 73 Is the bond even worth the paper it is printed on. When things go south for these companies it seems that the value of their bond is no where close to the amount of their financial exposure. Monthly reporting on their economic performance is grossly inaccurate Reply With Quote
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  • Jul 16, 2019 | 07:38 74 Anyone read the creditors list....when someone doesn't cough up 100 bucks for a computer fix....at a so called multi million dollar company. ....some one is taking the money and running.... Reply With Quote
    farmaholic's Avatar Jul 16, 2019 | 07:41 75 Maybe supporting company financial statements need to be included on a semi regular basis, to see if there is enough company equity and free cash available to cover the ever changing accounts payable.

    I bet it's easy to do business over the bond value.

    If the company is publicly traded and shareholders received ANY dividend, or the Prinipal owners(if privately owned) received a dividend or bonus, that is absolutely insane. Reply With Quote
    Jul 16, 2019 | 07:47 76
    Quote Originally Posted by farmaholic View Post
    Maybe supporting company financial statements need to be included on a semi regular basis, to see if there is enough company equity and free cash available to cover the ever changing accounts payable.

    I bet it's easy to do business over the bond value.

    If the company is publicly traded and shareholders received ANY dividend, or the Prinipal owners(if privately owned) received a dividend or bonus, that is absolutely insane.
    Principal owners/managers will have recieved a bonus for doing a good job
    Thats always a given
    Dont ever hafta wonder about that Reply With Quote
    Jul 16, 2019 | 07:49 77
    Quote Originally Posted by Crestliner View Post
    The numbers are stunning:

    $140 million invested by private shareholders
    $86 million debt from FCC
    $48 million debt from HSBC
    Another example of why our bankruptcy laws need to change and Ilta-Grain should have some of their management going to prison until everyone is paid off.
    Several people knew the farmers that were delivering millions of $ the last few weeks would not be paid.

    When the assets are sold off HSBC and FCC will get their $ first. Going by the stories I heard regarding farmers not getting paid for feed wheat/barley after hog industry bankruptcies this is concerning. Reply With Quote
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  • Jul 16, 2019 | 07:50 78
    Quote Originally Posted by farmaholic View Post
    Maybe supporting company financial statements need to be included on a semi regular basis, to see if there is enough company equity and free cash available to cover the ever changing accounts payable.

    I bet it's easy to do business over the bond value.

    If the company is publicly traded and shareholders received ANY dividend, or the Prinipal owners(if privately owned) received a dividend or bonus, that is absolutely insane.
    Or maybe the financial institutions should have an input to CGC because it's pretty obvious the CGC is full of buffoons and so might be the farmer organizations that say they are representing farmers.....

    Pulse Canada should be monitoring some of their respective members...

    CSCA should also be monitoring their "gold" members....this isn't over ....there probably more of this to come...

    And it looks like it has an easy path....because many people that say they are looking out for farmers are right ****ing stupid...
    Last edited by bucket; Jul 16, 2019 at 07:57.
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    Jul 16, 2019 | 07:54 79 Where does a person apply to handle the bankruptcy? I could use a million or so right now. Or are the guys that stuck the farmers doing that, maybe that’s in the fcc pike manual? Reply With Quote
    farmaholic's Avatar Jul 16, 2019 | 08:01 80 How is this not seen as fraud or theft in the BLIND eye of the law? Maybe because producer's are expendable? Reply With Quote
    Jul 16, 2019 | 08:11 81
    Quote Originally Posted by farmaholic View Post
    How is this not seen as fraud or theft in the BLIND eye of the law? Maybe because producer's are expendable?
    Maybe because producers have never been able to get together and try it in a court of law. Should this be something that check off $ and producer commissions be doing? Reply With Quote
    farmaholic's Avatar Jul 16, 2019 | 08:18 82
    Quote Originally Posted by walterm View Post
    Maybe because producers have never been able to get together and try it in a court of law. Should this be something that check off $ and producer commissions be doing?
    With all due respect walterm....but they're broke. Can't get blood from a stone....unless you want to make the CGC the "Defendant"! Reply With Quote
    Jul 16, 2019 | 08:19 83 Between the FCC lending of 85 million....WHY?....and the loans payments that would have to be made from farmers on the creditors list......FCC is in this for a little more than 95 million... just a guess....

    Take the bond?????

    but CGC rep says they haven't determined if the bond will cover what is owed to farmers....UH then someone is really not doing their job....when the CGC is paying auditors to figure it out....they are supposed to be the ****ing grain auditors....

    Who is thinking of buying ILTA grain...they have asked for sales commencement???? Reply With Quote
    Jul 16, 2019 | 08:20 84
    Quote Originally Posted by farmaholic View Post
    With all due respect walterm....but they're broke. Can't get blood from a stone....unless you want to make the CGC the "Defendant"!
    Farmers could take their primary elevator receipt back to ILTA and get their grain....its theirs still...

    Unless they had it picked up at the farm....then their are pooched... Reply With Quote
    Jul 16, 2019 | 08:21 85
    Quote Originally Posted by farmaholic View Post
    How is this not seen as fraud or theft in the BLIND eye of the law? Maybe because producer's are expendable?
    Do you think any emails, meeting minutes were deleted or papers shredded before management left their offices for the last time?

    These farmers were robbed. Unfortunately some are out 5,6 and 7 figures! Reply With Quote
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  • Jul 16, 2019 | 08:30 86 Each company applies for and qualifies for a bond to cover operations.
    The value of each bond, is evaluated & will be different for each company.
    The CGC requires monthly reporting of producer payables, this is mandatory to the CGC.
    If all is done properly the bond should reasonably match the insurable payables within a rolling average.

    Does the system work, stay tuned.
    Should crops be expanded to support diversity of production.
    All important questions for Ag associations to weigh in at next meetings. Reply With Quote
    Jul 16, 2019 | 08:31 87 The irony of it all is there will be missed payments to FCC from farmers, because FCC will be first in line to get paid , lawyers love this type of circular dilemma. Reply With Quote
    Jul 16, 2019 | 08:39 88 As a personal note:
    I promoted the risk insurance model, as unpaid receivables are painful at any level, with thin profit margins all around, always will be.

    1/ its bankable (stuff like this happens you know how much you are getting back, no suspense.)
    Financial institutions should be all in supporting I figure.

    2/ it supports diversity, the ideal system should be available to buy on all commodities a producer including canary seed, & feed grains.
    We need diversity to spread risk.

    Short term insurance model would have made the current wrath unnecessary. Reply With Quote
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  • Jul 16, 2019 | 08:40 89
    Quote Originally Posted by bucket View Post
    Between the FCC lending of 85 million....WHY?....and the loans payments that would have to be made from farmers on the creditors list......FCC is in this for a little more than 95 million... just a guess....

    Take the bond?????

    but CGC rep says they haven't determined if the bond will cover what is owed to farmers....UH then someone is really not doing their job....when the CGC is paying auditors to figure it out....they are supposed to be the ****ing grain auditors....

    Who is thinking of buying ILTA grain...they have asked for sales commencement????
    Precisely. Reply With Quote
    Jul 16, 2019 | 08:46 90
    Quote Originally Posted by westernvicki View Post
    As a personal note:
    I promoted the risk insurance model, as unpaid receivables are painful at any level, with thin profit margins all around, always will be.

    1/ its bankable (stuff like this happens you know how much you are getting back, no suspense.)
    Financial institutions should be all in supporting I figure.

    2/ it supports diversity, the ideal system should be available to buy on all commodities a producer including canary seed, & feed grains.
    We need diversity to spread risk.

    Short term insurance model would have made the current wrath unnecessary.

    Not being a naysayer but someone will always find a way to push this on to someone else to pay....The CGC will pick up this tab eventually and the principals at ILTA will do it all again eventually,,,, unless they sunk enough away for a good retirement out this go round... Reply With Quote
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