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May 13, 2019 | 19:40 31
Quote Originally Posted by agstar77 View Post
Trump's incompetence is leading to a global meltdown . Trade wars and real wars .
Your watching to much fake news go outside and enjoy the fresh air. Reply With Quote
May 13, 2019 | 19:52 32
Quote Originally Posted by jimmy View Post
Your watching to much fake news go outside and enjoy the fresh air.
Today Trump said the Chinese are paying the tariffs. 2 sentences later he said if importers don't want to pay the tariffs they should buy goods from other than China. Which is it? We know importers pay the tariffs which means US consumers.

He's nuts. Just cause you think he's right wing doesn't make him right. Reply With Quote

  • May 13, 2019 | 19:56 33
    Quote Originally Posted by Braveheart View Post
    Today Trump said the Chinese are paying the tariffs. 2 sentences later he said if importers don't want to pay the tariffs they should buy goods from other than China. Which is it? We know importers pay the tariffs which means US consumers.

    He's nuts. Just cause you think he's right wing doesn't make him right.
    Yes just like the big steel tariffs on China turned out they couldn’t even figure out how to charge China so they charged us lol yet trump was saying how China steel tariffs paying big?? I know the manufactures in the USA are the ones paying big and then guess who payed them big? Reply With Quote
    May 13, 2019 | 20:36 34 You guys should stick to farming because macro economics is not your strong suit.

    Let me provide some perspective.

    Imports to US from china comprise a meager 2.7% of US GDP. US exports to china comprise 0.9% of US GDP. China simply doesn’t factor in. On the other hand, a full 20% of chinas GDP is based on exports to the US. They are dependent on rich young consumers for their throw away junk. And the US is the only market on the planet that can absorb that consumption.
    Now lets talk tariffs. Tariffs are just like a carbon tax. Make a product more expensive so people look for alternatives. Changes behavior. Other countries will then start to fill the gap with cheaper non tariffed goods. And if tariffs get high enough, someone in the US will start making the product locally again. The tariffs aren’t targeting Chinese companies, they are targeting US companies who sold their soul and moved production overseas to sell back home. Like Apple, Nike etc. This is their warning shot. Either repatriate back home or be shut out of their home market.

    China can go pound sand and build their colonial network through 3rd world countries. Good luck with that. They can cancel Boeing orders. Good luck with that too. They have no ammo. The trade ratio is 6:1. Do your worst Xi. lets see how a little old fashioned western style recession sits with your dictatorship.
    Last edited by jazz; May 13, 2019 at 20:50.
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  • farmaholic's Avatar May 13, 2019 | 21:07 35 Jazz...does anyone who farms have a handle on economics? LMFAO. In this thread guys are talking stupid land prices. Rhetoric? There are some special circumstances that might make those prices make sense....but they don't exist on my farm! Reply With Quote
    May 13, 2019 | 21:14 36
    Quote Originally Posted by jazz View Post
    You guys should stick to farming because macro economics is not your strong suit.

    Let me provide some perspective.

    Imports to US from china comprise a meager 2.7% of US GDP. US exports to china comprise 0.9% of US GDP. China simply doesn’t factor in. On the other hand, a full 20% of chinas GDP is based on exports to the US. They are dependent on rich young consumers for their throw away junk. And the US is the only market on the planet that can absorb that consumption.
    Now lets talk tariffs. Tariffs are just like a carbon tax. Make a product more expensive so people look for alternatives. Changes behavior. Other countries will then start to fill the gap with cheaper non tariffed goods. And if tariffs get high enough, someone in the US will start making the product locally again. The tariffs aren’t targeting Chinese companies, they are targeting US companies who sold their soul and moved production overseas to sell back home. Like Apple, Nike etc. This is their warning shot. Either repatriate back home or be shut out of their home market.

    China can go pound sand and build their colonial network through 3rd world countries. Good luck with that. They can cancel Boeing orders. Good luck with that too. They have no ammo. The trade ratio is 6:1. Do your worst Xi. lets see how a little old fashioned western style recession sits with your dictatorship.
    So that’s why the Dow dropped on speculation of trade tariffs? If it wasn’t a factor it wouldn’t be an issue for the us markets. But it is.
    How many American companies outsource work to China? Those aren’t just Chinese companies involved with the tariffs. Reply With Quote
    May 13, 2019 | 21:32 37 We all lose. Trump signalling subsidies to affected farmers. Market signals are no more.

    The Chinese will never surrender. It's that dignity thing. They won't lose face. This will be Trumo's Vietnam. Reply With Quote
    May 13, 2019 | 21:43 38
    Quote Originally Posted by the big wheel View Post
    How many American companies outsource work to China? Those aren’t just Chinese companies involved with the tariffs.
    Jazz just said that. **** you socialists are slow on the uptake. This is to largely to penalize the sins of American companies who sourced labor overseas. Make their stocks drop like a rock until they either sink or come back to the US. You are either with America or against it.

    This isn't new information. Did all the Commies in North America just wake up? Trump told everyone from the start, USA will come first before all others! Bring jobs back to America or pay the price! No more handouts! It was stupid Canada and Mexico that thought they could join for the ride - ****ing morons. You are not America, you are their welfare ****ty sister who let's anyone have a piece. Neither country could keep their mouths shut when making personal comments about Trump, so now they pay the price. And we still have 5 more years to go until Ivanka is President because I doubt the Democrats will be able to keep the Unions and Ultra Socialist Left from fighting with each other before then. Reply With Quote
    May 13, 2019 | 21:45 39
    Quote Originally Posted by Braveheart View Post
    Today Trump said the Chinese are paying the tariffs. 2 sentences later he said if importers don't want to pay the tariffs they should buy goods from other than China. Which is it? We know importers pay the tariffs which means US consumers.

    He's nuts. Just cause you think he's right wing doesn't make him right.
    The prices will come down to remain competitive but retail will increase prices and enjoy a sweet margin. JMHO Reply With Quote
    May 13, 2019 | 21:46 40
    Quote Originally Posted by the big wheel View Post
    So that’s why the Dow dropped on speculation of trade tariffs? If it wasn’t a factor it wouldn’t be an issue for the us markets. But it is.
    How many American companies outsource work to China? Those aren’t just Chinese companies involved with the tariffs.
    Total over reaction by the DOW as it usually does. Tomorrow it will be up 10% when they realize just how small the Chinese leverage really is. Trump is putting tarrifs on 500B worth of good. China put them on $60B mostly farm products. Trump targeted their entire economy, Chia target soybeans. Trump can easily give US farmers assistance for a couple yrs. $12B is nothing. But can china do the same on $500B worth of goods? Nope.

    Trump can go even further. he can sanction any country that chooses to do business with china. Just like he did to Iran. make countries pick sides. Iran has been cut off from capital and the US banking system. Transactions are still cleared in US dollars, they still have the reserve currency.
    Last edited by jazz; May 13, 2019 at 21:49.
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    May 13, 2019 | 21:54 41
    Quote Originally Posted by sumdumguy View Post
    The prices will come down to remain competitive but retail will increase prices and enjoy a sweet margin. JMHO
    Well which country can absorb the tariffs if they increase local prices? Americans who have an median annual household income of $84,000 or Chinese who have a median annual income of $10,000 and have 1 billion peasants in the country side who don't have toilets. Reply With Quote
    May 13, 2019 | 22:21 42 Well I guess Isis or whatever it was called had been stamped out for 15 minutes, time for a new boogie man ... the stock market collapse and war .... lol Reply With Quote
    May 13, 2019 | 22:22 43 Just something else for the peasants to panic about.
    Never ending B/S to keep the masses distracted Reply With Quote
    May 13, 2019 | 22:25 44 BTW, just because someone dislikes,Trump, it doesn't make him a socialist. I just don't like lunatics that stand at a rally with The Bible in his hand talking about Pro Life while the truth about his sex with a porn star is swirling.

    Also, so Trump tries to bring American companies back to manufacturing in the US. But same companies left the US because of high labour costs. So Trump is trying to force companies back into the hands of unionized workers? Almost sounds like extreme socialism to me. Reply With Quote
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  • May 13, 2019 | 22:30 45
    Quote Originally Posted by jazz View Post
    Well which country can absorb the tariffs if they increase local prices? Americans who have an median annual household income of $84,000 or Chinese who have a median annual income of $10,000 and have 1 billion peasants in the country side who don't have toilets.
    84,000 dollars can buy a lot of cheap Chinese products. And some of them are not the cheap low end stuff but cheap name brands. When USA prices go up it will be interesting to see if the 10,000 gang suffer more or the 84,000 gang.
    What trump is doing is making the millionaires billionaires and the middle class will pay for it.

    That dumb **** has no plan what so ever other than play his high roller I don’t care if I go bankrupt because all the working people will pay for it anyway routine. Over and over Ian’s over again. All you right-tards supporting the man with his hand up his daughters panties, who wants to build America but never pays taxes well who’s going to pay for the build then hahahahaha

    The art of the dim whit con man is the latest novel. Reply With Quote
    May 13, 2019 | 22:42 46 There are how many billion people in the world and how many Americans? Building a protective wall around yourself and deleting trade who in the right *** mind actually thinks that will be long term sustainable? This is a short term feel good about ourselves stunt. Long term will put them back decades. The name of the game is trade and foreign markets for your goods. Not what this retarted prick is doing.

    You can’t say truduea is a dud for ruining trade relations and then say it’s good if trump does it.

    The fake news is that the rest of the world is backwards and not striving ahead. I take it that must come from some who haven’t travelled. I haven’t travelled lots but have been to Europe Asia and once to Russia they are not backwards in fact have many advanced technologies transportation is one of many. Who is going to buy these high priced goods it won’t be the average American. Reply With Quote
    May 13, 2019 | 22:46 47 It is odd. As it was the same Republicans that were all for globalization in the first place.
    Regan
    and the bushes .
    American Capitol should be free to go it wants
    Wherever it was cheapest to produce.
    That was the line .
    And it was only the socialist
    Lefty's that wanted to keep the tarrifs on.
    To protect American workers.
    And the tarrifs were eliminated .


    So trump is a socialist now.
    Bringing back all the tarrifs

    And being backed by all the same
    People that 25 years ago demanded
    Tarrifs be abolished.

    That is if nothing else
    Pretty funny.

    In effect . Most of You are saying the old socialists were
    Correct Reply With Quote
    May 13, 2019 | 22:52 48
    Quote Originally Posted by sawfly1 View Post
    It is odd. As it was the same Republicans that were all for globalization in the first place.
    Regan
    and the bushes .
    American Capitol should be free to go it wants
    Wherever it was cheapest to produce.
    That was the line .
    And it was only the socialist
    Lefty's that wanted to keep the tarrifs on.
    To protect American workers.
    And the tarrifs were eliminated .


    So trump is a socialist now.
    Bringing back all the tarrifs

    And being backed by all the same
    People that 25 years ago demanded
    Tarrifs be abolished.

    That is if nothing else
    Pretty funny.

    In effect . Most of You are saying the old socialists were
    Correct
    That’s exactly right. Gone backwards. And some have the nerve to call me a socialist hahahahaha about as smart as dipshit trump. Reply With Quote
    May 13, 2019 | 23:27 49 There have been benefits to unrestricted global trade.
    I have every tool imaginable in my shop thanks to China/Korea
    Made me more productive.
    Maybe not the best but I have them.

    Clothes shoes are so cheap , in the scheme of things.
    Cheaper chemicals. Etc.

    Here I thought all you guys were on the capitalist
    Bandwagon.
    Let john deer cast your part in China because they get it
    For 8$ vs 32$ cast in the states.
    They still get to charge you 150$. No matter where they do it.

    What are you all going red on us. Reply With Quote
    May 13, 2019 | 23:41 50 If there's utter confusion maybe the monetary system just needs a reset, spike the dollar and let's find out what's actually worth anything.... anyone looked or remember how fast it accelerated in 85 before intervention happened and we got on this path? It's very reminiscent, deflation, coming out of high in commods, rates are different but the protectionism was there. Smash it, let's get moving on, it'll be for the best long term. China hasn't tried QE yet, I'll give them that, it's like they don't think they are God like us westerners do, having said that, they depend on us for food and raw materials, and to consume as the gluttons we are. Kicking the debt habit for consumption wouldn't be the worst thing we ever did. But we can't handle the pain of a crash so we cut rates and print and take on more govt debt to give people stuff so the politicians get re-elected. And the cycle starts over... except it's running out of time before they can't juggle it anymore, and I don't think it matters which country your in, the politicians are not getting smarter. Why are smart people not running for govt? That might be the most important question to ask, it's only the self centered narcissist, which i have no use for so they can leave me the eff alone. When we crash it'll be loss of faith in govt as they wont be able to provide. Which is maybe what everyone is looking for in a trade deal or trade war or sustaining the status quo? It'll all just fall apart. Reply With Quote
    May 15, 2019 | 06:17 51 They are smart very smart some of them they go into politic with a fair amount of net worth and come out fifthly rich on a 190000$ wage some of them end up with millions. Look at old Nancy net worth over 190 million. Reply With Quote
    May 15, 2019 | 10:46 52
    Quote Originally Posted by jazz View Post
    Total over reaction by the DOW as it usually does. Tomorrow it will be up 10% when they realize just how small the Chinese leverage really is. Trump is putting tarrifs on 500B worth of good. China put them on $60B mostly farm products. Trump targeted their entire economy, Chia target soybeans. Trump can easily give US farmers assistance for a couple yrs. $12B is nothing. But can china do the same on $500B worth of goods? Nope.

    Trump can go even further. he can sanction any country that chooses to do business with china. Just like he did to Iran. make countries pick sides. Iran has been cut off from capital and the US banking system. Transactions are still cleared in US dollars, they still have the reserve currency.

    China is the largest foreign holder of U.S debt outside the U.S. Federal Reserve itself. China has a Trump card in that they can choose to or not to dump U.S. treasuries. This would force Washington to find new buyers of their debt which means interest rates would have to jump. Not good news for stock markets. This would definitely create market carnage. The U.S. has a little debt problem . . . which is just getting a whole lot worse. Reply With Quote
    May 15, 2019 | 10:57 53
    Quote Originally Posted by jimmy View Post
    They are smart very smart some of them they go into politic with a fair amount of net worth and come out fifthly rich on a 190000$ wage some of them end up with millions. Look at old Nancy net worth over 190 million.
    That's corruption not brilliance Reply With Quote
    May 15, 2019 | 12:06 54
    Quote Originally Posted by errolanderson View Post
    China is the largest foreign holder of U.S debt outside the U.S. Federal Reserve itself. China has a Trump card in that they can choose to or not to dump U.S. treasuries. This would force Washington to find new buyers of their debt which means interest rates would have to jump. Not good news for stock markets. This would definitely create market carnage. The U.S. has a little debt problem . . . which is just getting a whole lot worse.
    Errol, this is a myth as well. Dumping treasuries hurts china just as much, if not more. If that happens the fed cuts rates to counter. The trade deficit actually shrinks as a result. In return China would have to stimulate its economy which would then raise the share prices of US companies operating there who are still listed on the NYSE and NASDAQ. Lots of other buyers for that debt. Trump still wins.

    China’s ‘self-destructive nuclear option’ in trade war: Selling US Treasury bonds
    Last edited by jazz; May 15, 2019 at 12:08.
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    ajl
    May 15, 2019 | 12:57 55 China has been reducing net holdings of treasuries for some time in order to prop things up at home and yet that treasuries have found buyers as the fed has also been selling its holdings at the same time. There are more buyers for treasuries than sellers as the US dollar is being repatriated home and this is why there is no political appetite for serious spending reduction in the US. Interest rates refuse to go up. Add in the fact that tariff revenue is coming in to help service debt and the is no debt problem in the US. In addition, in a competitive market, sellers pay tariffs, so there has been and will be minimal price increases at US retailers so consumers will hardly notice the tariffs. Once again USA;1, china 0. How long will the chinese play a losing hand we wonder? Reply With Quote
    May 15, 2019 | 16:55 56 Who cares who Trump screwed. How many hookers did Bill get his weinie sucked by. Trumps a business man Bill was a opportunist. Wish we had a leader like Don instead of Selfie idiot. Reply With Quote
    May 15, 2019 | 21:43 57
    Quote Originally Posted by FarmJunkie View Post
    Trumps a business man....
    A rather poor one by all accounts, if any of us were as bad we'd have had our RB auction by now. Reply With Quote
    farmaholic's Avatar May 15, 2019 | 21:50 58
    Quote Originally Posted by grassfarmer View Post
    A rather poor one by all accounts, if any of us were as bad we'd have had our RB auction by now.
    Does it matter how many " business" ventures fail that Trump is involved in as long as he has more feathers in his personal nest at the end, ....I guess he was successful.

    Some people separate themselves from business. I haven't. Reply With Quote
    May 15, 2019 | 22:38 59 US consumers will be picking up some of the tab for the tarrifs .
    There will be price increases with a 25% tariff.
    If the object is to bring
    Manufacturers backed to the US.
    Do you really think the garment
    Industry will come back?
    1$ an hour compared to what
    10$ in the US.
    What kind of tarrif do you need to bring that industry back.
    400%

    Not gonna happen.
    Trump will have to tarrif every country in the world .
    He is not solving any thing if he does not.
    So it will be a tax on the American consumer.
    You have to wonder when Trumps
    Walmart minions will figure that out
    Now is john deere going to eat the extra cost from the tarrif .
    Or just charge you 25% more.

    Like 25% more might put a US manufacturing co.close to getting the order.
    But oh his steel price is up
    Because of trump's tarrifs.
    And China now has even cheaper
    Steel available . Because of same
    Tarrifs..
    You are sure Trump has thought all this through , are you?

    And just to keep the screwing with things . TRUMP and Bolton are trying to start a war with Iraq.

    It is Trump of course


    Other people will
    Die not him.
    So he could give a dam. Reply With Quote
    May 15, 2019 | 22:53 60
    Quote Originally Posted by sawfly1 View Post
    US consumers will be picking up some of the tab for the tarrifs .
    There will be price increases with a 25% tariff.
    If the object is to bring
    Manufacturers backed to the US.
    Do you really think the garment
    Industry will come back?
    1$ an hour compared to what
    10$ in the US.
    What kind of tarrif do you need to bring that industry back.
    400%
    You missed it. He is not trying to bring back the low end junk market. That wont be made here until automation makes it even lower cost. But he can target other items like appliances and iphones which have an enormous mark up. And he doesn't need to get them back on US soil, just off Chinese soil. If they move to Malaysia, Thailand and Vietnam, that's just as good. Reply With Quote