Highway safety... and Class 1 Vehicles

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Highway safety... and Class 1 Vehicles

Feb 10, 2019 | 08:16 1 The futility of Government... and the lack of rational common sense... is the issue here!

Obeying traffic signs... properly designed intersections... 4 lane highways... with major cross traffic... have speed reductions and hung orange/Red overhead lights in the middle of the intersections on 4 lane divided highways in most places in SK... with speed reductions NOW. Why did't this standard apply HERE...[RE: Bus Hockey accident in SK] at this death trap intersection?. NO COMMON SENSE caused this accident. Regulations... do not stop people from breaking laws... or using brain/being alert/ applying Common Sense...
If other people have been killed at this intersection BEFORE... IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN A 4 way complete stop intersection.

SK Engineers... who approved this intersection as ... SAFE... should go to jail as well!!!

To make the drivers the scape goats... STINKS.

A good big legal action.. for $100,000,000.00 against the engineers who oversee these area intersections... would sure as a PUBLIC shooting... fix these death trap intersections...for good... so NO MORE people DIE!!!

NOW in Alberta NDP LaLa land... 125 hrs of studying... STOP signs?.... @ $ 150.00/hr...!!!!
HOW STUPID IS THIS...???!!!!

A good 'Class 1 vehicle' simulator testing unit... like used for aircraft testing/training... [Westcan has/uses them] would have been a much better/smarter use of funds... to make better drivers and safety a priority on our roads... to actually make them safer.
AS IT IS... now... nothing is much safer... more people will die... the carnage and death on our roads will not decrease significantly.

What a tribute to all who so far... died in vain... as far as a liberal application of common sense is concerned!

THIS situation...SHOULD BOTHER... E V E R Y O N E. My Spirit is grieved.
Last edited by TOM4CWB; Feb 10, 2019 at 08:24.
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Feb 10, 2019 | 08:32 2 Tom there should be no headons on four lane highways but in my area there has been two in the last few years causing four deaths. You can’t fix stupid. Reply With Quote
farmaholic's Avatar Feb 10, 2019 | 08:37 3 What ever happened to personal responsibility....and nope, you can't regulate common sense, free will, or poor judgement and decisions. Reply With Quote
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  • farmaholic's Avatar Feb 10, 2019 | 08:42 4 The current two week course in Sask equates to nearly 80 hours of instruction time already. That makes up a good part of the proposed 125 hours.

    In the last thread on this topic i suggested an assessment of the student driver and tailoring the length of instruction accordingly.
    Last edited by farmaholic; Feb 10, 2019 at 08:47.
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    Feb 10, 2019 | 08:48 5 Profiling? Reply With Quote
    farmaholic's Avatar Feb 10, 2019 | 08:52 6
    Quote Originally Posted by binthere View Post
    Profiling?
    Yikes. That is NOT a politically correct word...lol.

    Let's use "assessing".
    Last edited by farmaholic; Feb 10, 2019 at 08:55.
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    Feb 10, 2019 | 09:55 7 These new rules will suck there is a shortage of drivers already, another thing they could have done is a restriction how far a novice driver can be away from homebase and can only drive 8 hours a day. 125 hours of driving lessons is nuts. Reply With Quote
    Feb 10, 2019 | 10:05 8 125 hours of driving the same route that you will be tested on? When I took my training years ago okey decades we went the same route for a week that the test was based on. When I took the test I had every turn every action memorized. But when I went driving through another town on my own after I was scared shitless yet I knew all the rules knew how to drive the truck easily from my farm experience. Didn’t want to harm anyone or myself. That’s where I should have been tested in hindsight. Reply With Quote
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  • Feb 10, 2019 | 11:56 9
    Quote Originally Posted by the big wheel View Post
    125 hours of driving the same route that you will be tested on? When I took my training years ago okey decades we went the same route for a week that the test was based on. When I took the test I had every turn every action memorized. But when I went driving through another town on my own after I was scared shitless yet I knew all the rules knew how to drive the truck easily from my farm experience. Didn’t want to harm anyone or myself. That’s where I should have been tested in hindsight.
    Please remember;
    a) SK farmers asked for and got... an exemption from the new training requirements;
    b) Ab farmers asked for and were DENIED... an exemption from the new driver Class 1 requirements;
    c) the problem intersection was/is in SK and NOT AB;
    d) there is an election coming up in AB, the NDP apparently do not trust AB farmers... both how they drive... and how they vote... they must be punished... as there is apparently no hope that 'fair' application of the solution to this problem [Trucks hitting Busses]... other than to punish Alberta Farmers.

    As I stated... this is the best example currently available... of why AB NDP are not worthy to continue to rule Alberta.
    Cheers Reply With Quote
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  • blackpowder's Avatar Feb 10, 2019 | 11:59 10 If that's the criteria for discussion Tom, we'll be here all day. Reply With Quote
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  • Feb 10, 2019 | 12:07 11
    Quote Originally Posted by blackpowder View Post
    If that's the criteria for discussion Tom, we'll be here all day.
    Blackpowder,

    There have been hundreds of AB Farmers... who do not have Class 1 Licenses... for decades... that have driven Class 1 vehicles safely [and farm equipment far more dangerous] without blowing stop signes... or hitting busses full of people.

    This is truly a nasty move by the NDP. Reply With Quote
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  • Feb 10, 2019 | 13:43 12
    Quote Originally Posted by TOM4CWB View Post
    Blackpowder,

    There have been hundreds of AB Farmers... who do not have Class 1 Licenses... for decades... that have driven Class 1 vehicles safely [and farm equipment far more dangerous] without blowing stop signes... or hitting busses full of people.

    This is truly a nasty move by the NDP.
    Can you currently drive a class one vehicle without a class one license in Alberta if your a farmer? Reply With Quote
    Feb 10, 2019 | 14:08 13 Is the SK ‘exemption’ from the training not a ‘F’ endorsement with restrictions that are still being worked out?
    My view is there should be no farmer special rules.
    Some guys are driving rolling junk heaps just to save money hauling their own grain. I’m sorry but being cheap doesn’t give you the right to endanger others on the road. Just spend some time in line at ADM in Lloyd to get a sample set of what some farmers both Sk and Ab limp canola into town with.
    And why should hauling on a few miles from home base make any difference as to how much damage a loaded semi can do if not operated properly. There are lots of good farmer drivers that do very well, but there are a few-one of our neighbors-who are an absolute menace. Training won’t be a cure all for sure, but it’s a step in the right direction.
    Equipment safeties is another that should be taken.
    This whole topic is one where farms hold no logical rationale for defending an exemption to all the industry rules. And one where we should not be asking for special treatment-it will come back to haunt us some day. Reply With Quote
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  • farmaholic's Avatar Feb 10, 2019 | 14:15 14 I was going to "like" Quad's post a bunch of times, but somehow Admin won't let me abuse the like button in a single post more than once. I even tried logging out and back in...nope, no luck! Reply With Quote
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  • Feb 10, 2019 | 14:46 15
    Quote Originally Posted by the big wheel View Post
    Can you currently drive a class one vehicle without a class one license in Alberta if your a farmer?
    No

    Just like it is illegal to plant Brown Bag PBR varieties of wheat./Bly/oats/flax/canola/etc.. it is done all the time... a part of our “culture and heritage”.. ‘no harm no foul’ you folks say! Reply With Quote
    Feb 10, 2019 | 15:07 16 [QUOTE=Quadtrack;402187]Is the SK ‘exemption’ from the training not a ‘F’ endorsement with restrictions that are still being worked out?
    My view is there should be no farmer special rules.
    Some guys are driving rolling junk heaps just to save money hauling their own grain. I’m sorry but being cheap doesn’t give you the right to endanger others on the road. Just spend some time in line at ADM in Lloyd to get a sample set of what some farmers both Sk and Ab limp canola into town with.
    And why should hauling on a few miles from home base make any difference as to how much damage a loaded semi can do if not operated properly. There are lots of good farmer drivers that do very well, but there are a few-one of our neighbors-who are an absolute menace. Training won’t be a cure all for sure, but it’s a step in the right direction.
    Equipment safeties is another that should be taken.
    This whole topic is one where farms hold no logical rationale for defending an exemption to all the industry rules. And one where we should not be asking for special treatment-it will come back to haunt us some day.[/QUOTE

    The test is the problem. The test should determine if your ready to handle all situations presented to you on the road as well as demonstrate knowing what the vehicles limitations are. Lengthening the number of hours trained will help with drivers that haven’t seen a steering wheel it likely won’t with someone that has had considerable equipment experience. The problem is how do you determine where someone’s skill is at for example you take a test in the summer and that’s different ball game than driving a rig in the winter. Really how it should work is the trainers should be able to tell where you are at they may think you need 200 hours and some may need 10.

    The sod truck driver shouldn’t of been on the road because he never even knew how to fill out the log book. Hit the ditch in carrot river etc etc.
    So how did he get a licence in the first place? Is anyone asking that question? Was he part of that corrupt situation in Calgary where there was no training at all and licenses were handed out?

    As far as the accident the only scenarios of why he blew the stop sign were that he was falling asleep, or he intentionally didn’t give a shit and wanted to get home fast. Which is what I personally think. If he was falling asleep then he likely doctored the log books intentionally and didn’t even know how to do that. Did he stay over night in carrot river the night before or did he drive all the way from Calgary and load to go back I never heard. Those 2 scenarios don’t get fixed by more training.
    He’s really getting off a lot easier than what he deserves.

    I think too many are equating what happened here as the only reason more hours are being asked for and that is not the sole reason. The accident woke everyone up to speak up about the many other drivers they know that shouldn’tbe driving and got a license too easily. .
    I ve seen plenty of them on the road. Reply With Quote
    wd9
    Feb 10, 2019 | 15:29 17
    Quote Originally Posted by the big wheel View Post
    Can you currently drive a class one vehicle without a class one license in Alberta if your a farmer?
    You can drive, but if you do you best prepare for being homeless. You will lose everything. Reply With Quote
    Feb 10, 2019 | 16:41 18
    Quote Originally Posted by wd9 View Post
    You can drive, but if you do you best prepare for being homeless. You will lose everything.
    Hahaha ya that’s what I thought it was just the way I mis interpreted toms wording thought I’d ask to clarify. Reply With Quote
    Feb 10, 2019 | 16:48 19
    Quote Originally Posted by TOM4CWB View Post
    No

    Just like it is illegal to plant Brown Bag PBR varieties of wheat./Bly/oats/flax/canola/etc.. it is done all the time... a part of our “culture and heritage”.. ‘no harm no foul’ you folks say!
    well anyone can drive anything they like, till something bad happens thats when the SHTF. SGI will pay out the damages and then assess the fault, if you are unlicensed they will come after you for costs. you will lose, you may lose everything you have.

    for those advocating for "stop sign at every intersection because it'll pay if it even saves one life", what will we do when there is a fatality at that intersection, believe me there will be one. more and more regulations and signage will just eventually lead to more and more people ignoring them. then you may as well not have anything and you will be back to traffic commonly found in 3rd world countries.

    Screaming for the government to do more might feel good but in the end it is personal responsibility that will make the biggest difference and no government can make that happen. Reply With Quote
    Feb 10, 2019 | 16:59 20
    Quote Originally Posted by tmyrfield View Post
    well anyone can drive anything they like, till something bad happens thats when the SHTF. SGI will pay out the damages and then assess the fault, if you are unlicensed they will come after you for costs. you will lose, you may lose everything you have.

    for those advocating for "stop sign at every intersection because it'll pay if it even saves one life", what will we do when there is a fatality at that intersection, believe me there will be one. more and more regulations and signage will just eventually lead to more and more people ignoring them. then you may as well not have anything and you will be back to traffic commonly found in 3rd world countries.

    Screaming for the government to do more might feel good but in the end it is personal responsibility that will make the biggest difference and no government can make that happen.
    Stopping every cross is not practical. Possibly lowering the speed limit at higher risk areas would help. And getting rid of trees or anything obstructing view of course but anyone with half a brain already knows that. Reply With Quote
    Feb 11, 2019 | 04:48 21
    Quote Originally Posted by the big wheel View Post
    Stopping every cross is not practical. Possibly lowering the speed limit at higher risk areas would help. And getting rid of trees or anything obstructing view of course but anyone with half a brain already knows that.
    Who would choose what intersections get 4 way stops or overpasses...and when this is not appropriate?

    Just like aircraft modifications happen when the loss of life and property exceeds a set number...
    on death trap intersections...that needs to be set by the local community if highway engineers refuse to fix the problem[RE multiple fatality multiple accident intersections]. The responsible traffic engineers do traffic assessments... apply appropriate solutions... to stop the death and carnage... just like what happens when an aircraft crashes and kills many people.

    In a responsible local community ... that cares... this would be a rational common sense solution to the deadly hazards killing its people.
    EG.
    Like intersection problems that kill multiple people deserve preventative solutions. If traffic flow is high enough... an overpass intersection is installed.

    The responsible highways engineers are 100% aware of the appropriate changes needed... to have safe intersections... to stop the death and carnage.
    This is not rocket science... we should be doing more to prevent traffic deaths.
    Cheers
    Last edited by TOM4CWB; Feb 11, 2019 at 04:56.
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    Feb 11, 2019 | 05:26 22 A government big enough to give you everything you want and solve all of our problems is big enough to take everything we have and regulate us to financial ruin. Reply With Quote

  • Feb 11, 2019 | 05:57 23
    Quote Originally Posted by TOM4CWB View Post
    Who would choose what intersections get 4 way stops or overpasses...and when this is not appropriate?

    Just like aircraft modifications happen when the loss of life and property exceeds a set number...
    on death trap intersections...that needs to be set by the local community if highway engineers refuse to fix the problem[RE multiple fatality multiple accident intersections]. The responsible traffic engineers do traffic assessments... apply appropriate solutions... to stop the death and carnage... just like what happens when an aircraft crashes and kills many people.

    In a responsible local community ... that cares... this would be a rational common sense solution to the deadly hazards killing its people.
    EG.
    Like intersection problems that kill multiple people deserve preventative solutions. If traffic flow is high enough... an overpass intersection is installed.

    The responsible highways engineers are 100% aware of the appropriate changes needed... to have safe intersections... to stop the death and carnage.
    This is not rocket science... we should be doing more to prevent traffic deaths.
    Cheers
    We drivers; have... [or should have] stopped thousands of times while driving a vehicle... [doesn't matter what size or shape other than the clear time needed to enter the intersection safely] before safely joining traffic flow on the road being crossed or entered. This skill can easily be tested for by any astute driver examiner... without 125 hours of Class 1 vehicle training. Farm equipment needs these skills even more... and no license or training is required legally other than being over 14 years old in Alberta. Anyone who can drive a simple tractor and 45' land roller... across or down a primary road safely... can also safely understand the skills needed to do the same activity with a truck and trailer used on a farm.

    I can remember in 1978 after getting my Class 1... first try... going to NIC [Northern Industrial Carriers] and being told by the owner of NIC that any genuine farm boy... was more than welcome... [with fresh Class 1 one week old] to join his fleet with my truck to haul his freight.

    Anyone should be able to challenge a Class 1 license... if experience and skill are sufficient... without spending over $10,000.00... especially when they have more experience and training... than the driver training school instructor getting the $100+/hr for instruction time.

    As an owner of many of these Class 1 vehicles...[and even more importantly complex farm equipment transportation on public roads] I am the one responsible to know... when and who should be allowed to do these jobs... and who has the skills needed to safely do this job. Reply With Quote
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  • Feb 11, 2019 | 07:29 24
    Quote Originally Posted by binthere View Post
    A government big enough to give you everything you want and solve all of our problems is big enough to take everything we have and regulate us to financial ruin.
    I guess... if safe passage on our roads... is not needed... and you are willing to risk our lives for the need of good governance and safer roads... common sense tells me... good stewardship and public policy ... for our public roads... is a basic need for our communities... the financial ruin... part can be debated for ever... while good people continue die in vain.

    Safe roads are a need... not a want.
    Last edited by TOM4CWB; Feb 11, 2019 at 07:32.
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    Feb 11, 2019 | 07:38 25
    Quote Originally Posted by TOM4CWB View Post
    I guess... if safe passage on our roads... is not needed... and you are willing to risk our lives for the need of good governance and safer roads... common sense tells me... good stewardship and public policy ... for our public roads... is a basic need for our communities... the financial ruin... part can be debated for ever... while good people continue die in vain.

    Safe roads are a need... not a want.
    So are safe drivers . Reply With Quote
    Feb 11, 2019 | 07:51 26
    Quote Originally Posted by jimmy View Post
    Tom there should be no headons on four lane highways but in my area there has been two in the last few years causing four deaths. You can’t fix stupid.
    Jimmy;
    Are all accidents preventable?

    Perhaps if we can use hindsight!

    'Stupid' accidents happen too often with aircraft too!

    Watch 'Mayday' about these crazy situations!

    I have seen faulty investigations with conclusions that defy physics ... one recommendation and analysis on tie down requirements of heavy equipment in a cargo aircraft... defied gravity and common sense.

    Exposure of accident causes... and engineering deficiencies... should be mandatory... like WCB accident reports should be required reading for everyone who needs a safe work place.

    We are smart if we learn from accidents... and critically analyze the solutions ... not just say it was stupid and is unpreventable going forward. Reply With Quote
    Feb 11, 2019 | 08:12 27 [QUOTE=Quadtrack;402187]

    And why should hauling on a few miles from home base make any difference as to how much damage a loaded semi can do if not operated properly???

    We have many licensed vehicles that never leave the farm yard and many that don’t go further than twenty miles from field to field and to the elevator. I guarantee the risk of them colliding with another vehicle is almost nil compared to a truck putting on 20,000-50,000 miles a year, highway and city driving. For one, there isn’t another vehicle to collide with around here. I know I am going to get an argument for arguments sake but the risk is minimal and ...

    “Yes, I believe farmers should have an exemption for this very reason”. Reply With Quote
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  • Feb 11, 2019 | 08:32 28
    Quote Originally Posted by furrowtickler View Post
    So are safe drivers .
    How were farmer drivers a part of the truck hockey bus disaster? This was not a farm truck!

    What is the safety record of farm equipment drivers vs highway trucking operations? Very Rare farm equipment accidents involving other vehicles...on public roads...indeed! Reply With Quote
    Feb 11, 2019 | 09:07 29 Tom4$$$$4Tom

    " Very Rare farm equipment accidents involving other vehicles...on public roads...indeed! "

    Do a little googling before pulling such a statement out of your ass and posting it.

    "National statistics recently complied by the Canadian Agricultural Safety Association show collisions between motor vehicles and farm equipment killed more than 150 people since the early 1990s. This study only tracked fatalities. The number of accidents is much higher."

    Also remember the majority of heavy farm equipment is only moving five month of a year compared to other industries.

    God Bless you! Reply With Quote
    Feb 11, 2019 | 09:13 30
    Quote Originally Posted by TOM4CWB View Post
    I guess... if safe passage on our roads... is not needed... and you are willing to risk our lives for the need of good governance and safer roads... common sense tells me... good stewardship and public policy ... for our public roads... is a basic need for our communities... the financial ruin... part can be debated for ever... while good people continue die in vain.

    Safe roads are a need... not a want.
    Have you ever driven a motor cycle other than a dirt bike on a desolate country road? If not buy a cruiser hop on put on half a million kms and you will soon learn the skill of D.Y.O.D.D. if not you will soon realise no sign street light over pass on or off ramps or solid double yellow lines are full proof. Reply With Quote