Class 1 Driver's Lic

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Class 1 Driver's Lic

GDR
Feb 8, 2019 | 14:41 1 So the AB licensing rules are changing. Gonna have to take 125 hours of government training prior to taking test. No exemption for farmers like Saskatchewan is getting. Governments response was there are not very many farmers affected cause most farm vehicles only require a class 3. Percentage wise they may be right when they count all pickups etc in the total. I would bet better than half of the farms out there have a class 1 rig of some nature.

I called early January to book a test for myself before March 1 but the majority of the examiners quit testing in protest of the government changes, most of the remaining examiners are on retraining for new rules and are unable to book road tests before the deadline.

The pulse growers and a couple other groups released a statement against the changes (more a delay)

Anybody else worried about this? Lots on here were quick to call for more regulation after the Humbolt crash but going forward its gonna make finding seasonal help quite a bit harder. Class 1 operator may become a hot commodity. Reply With Quote
farmaholic's Avatar Feb 8, 2019 | 15:22 2 Can there ever be too much road safety? Getting a 1A license is even more of a PRIVILEGE than a lowly class 5, and it better be earned not granted....proven you are capable of operating and understanding such a vehicle.

The irresponsible actions of afew will make it harder for other legitimate people to qualify for a 1A...which may not be too bad of an idea.

I am not sure if certain Nationalities operate on the same set of values morals and beliefs as Canadians. Training schools operated by them... testing the new drivers by themselves....safetying their own trucks ...this isn't driver training and testing for one nationality only....

What passes for standard procedure in other parts of the world doesn't necessarily happen the world over....some places hold their own to higher standards and beating regulation isn't, and shouldn't, be seen as a victory!

Edited in "and understanding"
Last edited by farmaholic; Feb 8, 2019 at 19:59.
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Feb 8, 2019 | 15:59 3 Why did this become a class 1 driver issue?

Last I checked, the rules of the road are the same for every class of license, and the recent high profile accident(s) involved failing to follow very basic rules of the road.

Nothing to do with anything specific to a truck/trailer with air brakes, or mechanical issues, etc. Reply With Quote

  • farmaholic's Avatar Feb 8, 2019 | 16:02 4 Class 1 vehicles aren't SmartCars either are they. Reply With Quote
    Feb 8, 2019 | 16:17 5 All of us have to pay for a mistake that not even a Canadian citizen caused. Reply With Quote
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  • Feb 8, 2019 | 17:02 6
    Quote Originally Posted by farmaholic View Post
    Class 1 vehicles aren't SmartCars either are they.
    No, but a combination of an F-350 with a deck and quads, plus a 5th wheel toy hauler/ travel trailer loaded right up can easily weigh more than many trucks which require a class 1. And likely has poorer braking ability.

    One of my hay buyers takes ~ 25,000 lbs of hay per trip behind an F550 but only needs a class 5 license. Reply With Quote
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    GDR

  • Feb 8, 2019 | 17:07 7 Did this guy even have a drivers licence before he came to Canada? Any country I have been in stop signs only mean stop in Canada and USA everywhere else they are ignored. I had a immigrant cab driver in Saskatoon and he wouldn’t stop for red lights. Reply With Quote
    farmaholic's Avatar Feb 8, 2019 | 17:36 8
    Quote Originally Posted by AlbertaFarmer5 View Post
    No, but a combination of an F-350 with a deck and quads, plus a 5th wheel toy hauler/ travel trailer loaded right up can easily weigh more than many trucks which require a class 1. And likely has poorer braking ability.

    One of my hay buyers takes ~ 25,000 lbs of hay per trip behind an F550 but only needs a class 5 license.
    There is a endorsement required in Sask fo anything over 10,000 lbs,

    "Some travel and utility trailers have increased in size to a point where they qualify as Class 1 units. To pull a heavy trailer (utility and recreation) weighing more than 4,600 kg (10,000 lb.), including the load, you need a Class 1 licence or a heavy trailer G endorsement on a Class 2, 3, 4 or 5 licence. The heavy trailer G endorsement allows you to drive two-axle trucks towing heavy trailers (but not power units)." Reply With Quote
    Feb 8, 2019 | 17:46 9
    Quote Originally Posted by AlbertaFarmer5 View Post
    Why did this become a class 1 driver issue?

    Last I checked, the rules of the road are the same for every class of license, and the recent high profile accident(s) involved failing to follow very basic rules of the road.

    Nothing to do with anything specific to a truck/trailer with air brakes, or mechanical issues, etc.
    Because when your driving a class one unit and make a mistake the other people always pay the price.
    Also it takes a hell of a lot more skill to drive a semi than a car even if you know rhe rules you still have to know how to brake properly etc.
    The industry particularly governments rhatnlet this go on this long really are to blame for that accident. Many truckers would agree they see who's driving and the lack of skill worries rhe best of veteran drivers. Reply With Quote
    farmaholic's Avatar Feb 8, 2019 | 17:55 10 Wasn't there a time when Class 1A drivers were called professional drivers? And I bet there are still many who are and proud of that designation. Earned. Reply With Quote
    Feb 8, 2019 | 18:46 11
    Quote Originally Posted by farmaholic View Post
    Wasn't there a time when Class 1A drivers were called professional drivers? And I bet there are still many who are and proud of that designation. Earned.
    You are of course aware of the cost that will be involved in getting a class 1 in Alberta after March 1. I have been told around $8000. Seems excessive to me! Reply With Quote
    farmaholic's Avatar Feb 8, 2019 | 19:07 12
    Quote Originally Posted by Hamloc View Post
    You are of course aware of the cost that will be involved in getting a class 1 in Alberta after March 1. I have been told around $8000. Seems excessive to me!
    Hamloc, I understand your concern but the cheap rubber stamp was no good either. Maybe there could be assessments of "beginning" drivers ability, or partially trained people's ability or people who need little training, then course time and costs adjusted to their needs.

    Since Provinces license drivers, maybe everything from the training to testing should be conducted by the province, I think there can't be any chances or opportunities to cheat the system. No private schools/training or testing.

    Also, what does any other course cost. I REALIZE this isn't a semester's worth of time required, but there are costs to personal education/skill development. Reply With Quote
    Feb 8, 2019 | 19:11 13
    Quote Originally Posted by Hamloc View Post
    You are of course aware of the cost that will be involved in getting a class 1 in Alberta after March 1. I have been told around $8000. Seems excessive to me!
    That depends
    If your getting a license to work full time in the patch or elsewhere that's a small amount it pay with relatively little time invested also compared to jobs rhat pay the same where kids go to school for 2 years minimum.

    If your a farmer hat needs to drive your old semi spring and fall yes that's expensive. Reply With Quote
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  • Feb 8, 2019 | 19:16 14
    Quote Originally Posted by the big wheel View Post
    Because when your driving a class one unit and make a mistake the other people always pay the price.
    Also it takes a hell of a lot more skill to drive a semi than a car even if you know rhe rules you still have to know how to brake properly etc.
    The industry particularly governments rhatnlet this go on this long really are to blame for that accident. Many truckers would agree they see who's driving and the lack of skill worries rhe best of veteran drivers.
    While I agree that a semi and car are a loosing combination,I dont believe more traning is the answer as you cant fix stupid or arogance . What I do believe is the department of highways are to blame for letting those trees block the line of sight,I dont think that accidedent would have happened if the bus driver could have seen the oncoming truck.
    Did you notice every picture of the site neglects to show the whole intersection with trees,seems like someone is being protected. Mabey some of you who has driven that highway can correct me. Reply With Quote
    Feb 8, 2019 | 19:20 15
    Quote Originally Posted by Horse View Post
    While I agree that a semi and car are a loosing combination,I dont believe more traning is the answer as you cant fix stupid or arogance . What I do believe is the department of highways are to blame for letting those trees block the line of sight,I dont think that accidedent would have happened if the bus driver could have seen the oncoming truck.
    Did you notice every picture of the site neglects to show the whole intersection with trees,seems like someone is being protected. Mabey some of you who has driven that highway can correct me.
    I agree with that whole heartedly!!
    The bus driver who was qualified and driving safely had no chance to defensive drive because of those trees. It still was the other guys fault but I don't care about who's fault the driver would have swerved or even stopped in time without those trees.
    The problem is also the lack of credibility in testing. I don't think you can put a time limit on when a person is ready some people can train for a decade and still not be a good driver. I think anyway. Reply With Quote
    Feb 8, 2019 | 19:23 16 And hamloc you have a point also in that someone from a farm for example likely won't need all that training so shouldn't have to pay rhe extra time served. Emphasis should have been more maybe on the actual test?? Reply With Quote
    farmaholic's Avatar Feb 8, 2019 | 19:38 17
    Quote Originally Posted by the big wheel View Post
    And hamloc you have a point also in that someone from a farm for example likely won't need all that training so shouldn't have to pay rhe extra time served. Emphasis should have been more maybe on the actual test??
    Other than experience, how does(why should) a farmer get a free pass for acquiring a 1A,....same equipment and roads. I'm even on the record as stating there should be safeties on farm trucks and trailers. Maybe not on a commercial schedule but milage based for the power unit, trailers might have to be on a time schedule. Reply With Quote
    GDR
    Feb 8, 2019 | 19:44 18
    Quote Originally Posted by the big wheel View Post
    Because when your driving a class one unit and make a mistake the other people always pay the price.
    Also it takes a hell of a lot more skill to drive a semi than a car even if you know rhe rules you still have to know how to brake properly etc.
    The industry particularly governments rhatnlet this go on this long really are to blame for that accident. Many truckers would agree they see who's driving and the lack of skill worries rhe best of veteran drivers.
    I agree the weight and size makes a difference but as AB5 says i can pull my stock trailer with 15000lbs of cows behind my 3/4ton.

    Big difference for one guy with a tandem trailer running from field to bin versus a loaded btrain running accross the Rockies or travelling through Toronto. Not sure there can be too many classes but the Farm endorsement in Saskatchewan makes sense, wish they'd do that here but thats coming from a farmer and sure others would disagree.

    125hrs of instruction is after you have an existing license and in theory already know the rules of the road. Thats a month and a pile of cash!


    In the case of the Humbolt driver, his offence was running the stop sign not murdering the team, he is looking at jail time and deportation, if he had been 30 seconds earlier or later the situation would have ended quite different. So whatever his sentance is should that be the new standard punishment for running the stop sign instead of a couple hundred dollar fine? Don't know just askin?
    Last edited by GDR; Feb 8, 2019 at 20:59.
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    Feb 8, 2019 | 19:48 19
    Quote Originally Posted by farmaholic View Post
    Other than experience, how does(why should) a farmer get a free pass for acquiring a 1A,....same equipment and roads. I'm even on the record as stating there should be safeties on farm trucks and trailers. Maybe not on a commercial schedule but milage based for the power unit, trailers might have to be on a time schedule.
    I m looking at it from the stand point of being a good driver, most farmers not all have considerable equipment experience that helps make them able to be a good driver sooner than someone who hasn't seen a steeeing wheel of any thing.
    But as you said if your a farmer that hasn't driven anything then yes you should require the same training that's what I meant by testing itself should be the focus. The time limit of training is going to help but there still will be idiots with a license if the testing isn't rigorous. Reply With Quote
    blackpowder's Avatar Feb 8, 2019 | 19:48 20 I had thought a limited radius farm only would have been adequate to solve the peak season needs at least for the interim. But not for the NDP. Reply With Quote
    farmaholic's Avatar Feb 8, 2019 | 19:55 21 Good respectful discussion ladies and gentlemen, better than those political and climate threads.

    Thank you. Reply With Quote
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  • helmsdale's Avatar Feb 8, 2019 | 20:45 22
    Quote Originally Posted by GDR View Post
    I called early January to book a test for myself before March 1 but the majority of the examiners quit testing in protest of the government changes, most of the remaining examiners are on retraining for new rules and are unable to book road tests before the deadline.
    The fact that the examiners are holding people hostage is kind of B.S. To bad they at least be willing to work with people that are on some sort of waiting list prior to the rule change... Reply With Quote
    Feb 8, 2019 | 20:49 23
    Quote Originally Posted by Horse View Post
    While I agree that a semi and car are a loosing combination,I dont believe more traning is the answer as you cant fix stupid or arogance . What I do believe is the department of highways are to blame for letting those trees block the line of sight,I dont think that accidedent would have happened if the bus driver could have seen the oncoming truck.
    Did you notice every picture of the site neglects to show the whole intersection with trees,seems like someone is being protected. Mabey some of you who has driven that highway can correct me.
    no , no-one is being protected . there are many pics of the whole thing , 18 miles from me . there are hundreds of intersections just like that all over the country , can't believe it, but in a way i even feel sorry for the driver . don't know about anyone else , but i have had some close calls in my 40 + years of driving , some would of been my fault . this is so sad all of the way around . but we must remember , this is someones yard . spruce trees that have taken a lifetime to grow . all of the dead trees east of yard have been piled . visibility is better , but sadly , a stop sign is a stop sign . that was the problem Reply With Quote

  • Feb 8, 2019 | 21:03 24 I still say this is an over reaction to the wrong issue.

    I just looked up the stats in US( what I could find). Big trucks represent 10% of all total miles driven. And from a couple of different sources, I come up with 11% of all fatal accidents where a big truck is involved. That is not the same as being at fault, assume a portion of those are the automobile at fault, I didn't find a stat for that.
    So in spite of the fact that in a collision with a big truck, an automobile occupant loses every time, proportionately, they are involved in no more deaths than passenger vehicles.

    If anything, I think all drivers should be required to learn about trucks, their stopping distance, acceleration, turning radius, blind spots, behaviour in ice or wind, so that all drivers would give trucks the respect they deserve. Talk to any trucker and they will tell you horror stories about cars pulling out right in front of them and worse.

    Having a class 5 is a prerequisite to getting a class 1, so far as I know, the rules of the road must be learned to obtain the class 5, they don't change when you get a class 1, this driver failed to stop at a stop sign, how many ways and times can they teach you to stop at a stop sign in 125 hours? This wasn't a training issue, it was either playing Russian Roulette, busy on cell phone, or fell asleep. Reply With Quote
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  • helmsdale's Avatar Feb 8, 2019 | 21:06 25 Farma, to your first reply to this thread:

    Can there ever be too much road safety? No... in an ideal world everyone would pay attention and operate their vehicle in a safe and responsible manner. There can most certainly be too much regulation, but the new rules might be striking an *appropriate* balance. 125 hours of instruction is probably a respectable starting point, but honestly I've got over 20,000 hours just on my current rig not counting the numerous ones before, and honest to god, I'm still LEARNING!

    As to the "nationalities" of some of the drivers, I can honestly say i've seen every race, color, and creed, that in my eye are nothing more than "seat warmers", or "two feet and a heartbeat". I've known many an "experienced" driver that can't back something up to save their ass, blow stop signs in high range, overload horribly, mow ditch grass, or write a unit off completely. I remember sitting in Sicamous BC killing time till i could unload the next day and an Indian(dots not feathers) pulling with Bison pinned onto a trailer that had been dropped in the parking lot by another driver. I've never seen a more thorough pre-trip done be someone in my entire life. Got out and B.S'd with him as he was filling out his paperwork, and he told me it's his ass on the line if something goes wrong between the time he pins on and the time he drops the dolly legs at its destination, so he might as well do it right!

    One other observation on the nationalities thing though... I've seen in my years, that there is a misuse of "Canadian good nature" by some of the nationalities that come to mind with the trucking business. DOT's are not as likely to be as hard on them in my experience when they feign an inability to properly converse in English. Most certainly doesn't fly south of the 49th. I've personally witnessed many that try to "play dumb", with American DOT's. Doesnt end well for them. I watched one DOT at the Sage weigh scale north of Idaho Falls verbally undress two fellas, and in no uncertain terms told them they could answer his questions in english, or they could get a court ordered interpreter but their truck would be impounded and towed. They spoke eloquent english after that. Reply With Quote
    Feb 8, 2019 | 21:30 26
    Quote Originally Posted by caseih View Post
    no , no-one is being protected . there are many pics of the whole thing , 18 miles from me . there are hundreds of intersections just like that all over the country , can't believe it, but in a way i even feel sorry for the driver . don't know about anyone else , but i have had some close calls in my 40 + years of driving , some would of been my fault . this is so sad all of the way around . but we must remember , this is someones yard . spruce trees that have taken a lifetime to grow . all of the dead trees east of yard have been piled . visibility is better , but sadly , a stop sign is a stop sign . that was the problem
    Well if there are hundreds of these tree areas they should be cleared. Our rm does it all the time. Has greatly reduced accidents.

    It was good that the driver plead was guilty but I think he knew his sentence would be stiffer if he didn't. He also said he was preoccupied with the tarp which is a bunch of bullshit because if he was worried about the tarp he should have stopped and fixed it. A blown off tarp could have killed someone he met. Therefore knowingly driving like rhat he was dangerous driving for rhat alone. I think he just didn't give a shit since he was driving a big truck.
    I can't believe anyone would feel sorry for him.

    Which gets back to the point are we worried about the training or are we worried about making the entire act of driving safe? Making it safe means giving the good driver a chance to look out and react to those that aren't for what ever reason

    How on earth can anyone be more concerned about a lousy group of trees over someone child, father, daughter, mother or who ever.

    Do you have children case? Would you be saying the same if your child died there? Do you not understand that the bus driver would have had a chance to do something meaning all those lives could have been saved? Or do you value a bloody tree more? My God!! Reply With Quote
    helmsdale's Avatar Feb 8, 2019 | 21:33 27
    Quote Originally Posted by GDR View Post
    In the case of the Humbolt driver, his offence was running the stop sign not murdering the team, he is looking at jail time and deportation, if he had been 30 seconds earlier or later the situation would have ended quite different. So whatever his sentance is should that be the new standard punishment for running the stop sign instead of a couple hundred dollar fine? Don't know just askin?
    It's a little more complicated than that I'm thinking... From the sounds of it, this particular driver is blaming it on "inexperience". You don't really need much experience to recognize that a big red octagon, with STOP on it and a flashing red light, mean you should stop.

    When listening to some of his explaining of his recollection of events, and reading about what he had been doing the previous few days, I don't think it was necessarily his "driving" that was the issue. I have an uncanny feeling that it was his "lack of driving", at the very moment in question that was the real problem.

    What I mean is:
    -I believe him when he says he didn't see the stop sign.
    -I believe him, when he says he never seen the bus.
    -I believe him, when he said he had no idea what happened until he climbed out of his crumpled rig in the ditch and it took him a few minutes to realize the gravity of the situation.
    -I believe the RCMP reconstruction team, that believes he made absolutely no attempt to stop, and blew the intersection at somewhere between 86 and 96 km/h.
    -I believe the facts agreed upon by the crown and defence, that there was nothing obscuring his view of the stop sign, with no sun in his eyes, no inclement weather, and the intersection being clearly visible at the time. He also passed signs indicating that an intersection with a stop sign was ahead. He was not under the influence of drugs or alcohol at the time, and was not disctracted by a cellphone.

    Now you're probably wondering how I can believe all of the things above even though agreed statements of facts are in contradiction with his own personal statements. It's relatively simple... He was ASLEEP! Or at the very least he was in that hazy spot where you damned near feel like you're out of your own body, or at the very worst, you're completely blacked out.

    What makes me think he was asleep at the wheel? His log book was SHIT!!! In only a 14 day recording period he had racked up 51 federal regulation, and 19 provincial regulation violations. There were unaccounted for KM's, and roughly an hour not properly accounted for on the day in question alone. Let alone his trying to write off "loading dock time", as "Off duty". Had he been pulled at a roadside that day, he would have immediately been put out of service not for the day, but for an entire full length reset of 72 Hr's.

    Honest to god, I believe he didn't see the stop sign, he didnt see the bus, and he didn't know what happened because he was asleep at the wheel!

    I would hazard to argue that something as simple as mandatory E-logs would have prevented this whole damned mess. Reply With Quote
    Feb 8, 2019 | 21:40 28
    Quote Originally Posted by the big wheel View Post
    Well if there are hundreds of these tree areas they should be cleared. Our rm does it all the time. Has greatly reduced accidents.

    It was good that the driver plead was guilty but I think he knew his sentence would be stiffer if he didn't. He also said he was preoccupied with the tarp which is a bunch of bullshit because if he was worried about the tarp he should have stopped and fixed it. A blown off tarp could have killed someone he met. Therefore knowingly driving like rhat he was dangerous driving for rhat alone. I think he just didn't give a shit since he was driving a big truck.
    I can't believe anyone would feel sorry for him.

    Which gets back to the point are we worried about the training or are we worried about making the entire act of driving safe? Making it safe means giving the good driver a chance to look out and react to those that aren't for what ever reason

    How on earth can anyone be more concerned about a lousy group of trees over someone child, father, daughter, mother or who ever.

    Do you have children case? Would you be saying the same if your child died there? Do you not understand that the bus driver would have had a chance to do something meaning all those lives could have been saved? Or do you value a bloody tree more? My God!!
    to each his own , i guess . me and others , probably you too said he would be long gone and never see a courtroom . well we were all wrong . anyways are you gonna go out and knock every bluff down at every intersection .did you watch the news , some the families of the victims felt sorry for him . anyways i surprised myself for thinking that , but certainly don't need to explain that to you Reply With Quote
    Feb 8, 2019 | 22:02 29
    Quote Originally Posted by caseih View Post
    to each his own , i guess . me and others , probably you too said he would be long gone and never see a courtroom . well we were all wrong . anyways are you gonna go out and knock every bluff down at every intersection .did you watch the news , some the families of the victims felt sorry for him . anyways i surprised myself for thinking that , but certainly don't need to explain that to you
    Instead of a stadium yes I'd cut down every intersection of two main highway at least for sure. That's a main intersection where traffic crosses rhat highway. There a something going on there with that story there was a blurb about problems there years before people wanted those trees gone. I guess they can live with rhe tees and all those crosses across the road also. But like you said everyone was different if it was my yard I'd take those trees out after the accidents years ago. But that's just me.

    Yes some of rhe families feel that way everyone has their way of handling grief and their own religious beliefs and I bet some haven't even gotten truly over the shock of what's happenned. But whether they do or not ask any of them if there was a high probability if the trees weren't there their loved one would be alive. What would the answer be?

    And no you don't have to explain anything to me I don't care if you do or not. Except you never answered if it was your kids would you think different? If it was mine I d go there after and pile those fkn trees up permission or not so someone else doesn't suffer at rhat corner. But that's just me. Reply With Quote
    Feb 8, 2019 | 22:27 30 i wouldn't want to be the people responsible for those trees not removed if there ever was an accident there again.

    It may have been that he was asleep as helmsdale suggests, or just stupid or someone's brakes fail. Under all of those scenerios as long as those trees are there the ones with the right of way have no chance to save themselves. No training is going to fix that only the trees gone. Reply With Quote