If farmers must pay more for seed, they want more say

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If farmers must pay more for seed, they want more say

farmaholic's Avatar Feb 12, 2019 | 07:53 31 I wonder if GrainCos and Processors and such are going to want to collect the SeedCo's ransom for free or if they will be in on the take for collecting it.

And regarding some advocates. Personally, I don't trust certain people.... Reply With Quote
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  • Feb 12, 2019 | 07:54 32
    Quote Originally Posted by TOM4CWB View Post
    Bucket,

    Did you actually read anything in the last 10 posts?

    Perhaps if you had...

    you would reflect that clubbing the folks who are asking and looking for practical common sense solutions... with your spiteful vernacular... could you please consider our honest attempt to do the difficult task of standing in the way of overwhelming injustice/cultural profiteering ... who thank you every time... you help them pocket big $$$ at the expense of our family farms.

    Thx for your genuine consideration of these issues in advance.
    Sincerely
    Fair comments TOM but you haven't even answered the question on behalf of your masters .....Who pays for a Triffid like event?

    A. Farmers
    B. Seed growers
    c. Breeders

    I know who paid the last time .....do you????? Reply With Quote
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  • Feb 12, 2019 | 07:55 33
    Quote Originally Posted by dmlfarmer View Post
    Agree 100% Too bad the seed industry is not honest enough to admit the reason for royalties is a tax on farm multiplication of seed rather than blame it on their guesstimates of brown bagging and the need for research. I respect honesty. I have no respect for con games/BSers.
    DML Farmer,

    SK Seed Growers and AB Seed Growers just finished asking many of you folks hard questions... at our Annual General Meetings.
    If we refuse to consider the honest questions many farmers ask... and fail to find genuine solutions;

    We all will pay and pay... over and over... as we are all in the same boat... Reply With Quote
    Feb 12, 2019 | 08:03 34
    Quote Originally Posted by TOM4CWB View Post
    Thx SF3

    The underground [ PBR intellectual property protection breaching] trade/sales of planting seed... is/was the discussion... when I and my family are forced to pay TWICE AS MUCH royalty on Certified planting Seed... because some folks take advantage of family farmers like us... to 'feather their nests' with our blood sweat and tears.
    Have a great day... from the shores of -30 with 20km winds warming our souls!!!
    Playing the sympathy card are we TOM....you are a family growing seed....to sell to a family farm....like mine.....there is a difference and I don't appreciate you mudding family farms earned standard....

    You seed growers packed the information meeting under the disguise of being farmers to get public opinion and the polls they did to favour your side....reprehensible.... Reply With Quote
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  • Feb 12, 2019 | 08:05 35
    Quote Originally Posted by bucket View Post
    Fair comments TOM but you haven't even answered the question on behalf of your masters .....Who pays for a Triffid like event?

    A. Farmers
    B. Seed growers
    c. Breeders

    I know who paid the last time .....do you?????
    Bucket,

    I am a farmer... and paid and pay for the mistakes like triffid... which I do bring up and remind the 'Masters' as you call them... they do not enjoy this question... but have not yet hung me for asking these uncomfortable questions.
    Cheers Reply With Quote
    Feb 12, 2019 | 08:09 36
    Quote Originally Posted by TOM4CWB View Post
    Bucket,

    I am a farmer... and paid and pay for the mistakes like triffid... which I do bring up and remind the 'Masters' as you call them... they do not enjoy this question... but have not yet hung me for asking these uncomfortable questions.
    Cheers
    Since you asked the question....what was their answer?

    Because they sent the bill to farmers and the very guys that created the problem no one wanted got a second chance to reconstitute the seed...

    Nothing for the average farmer just bills for testing, a fucked market, a market the russians took free from us....and has never returned....and more seed costs from the people that sold us certified Bethune flax the first time.... Reply With Quote
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  • Feb 12, 2019 | 08:17 37 I also notice the others that support the seed tax have fucked off the discussions....they must be spinning in the war rooms of the seed industry and politicians that are so willing to oblige their request for the seed tax.... Reply With Quote
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  • Feb 12, 2019 | 10:11 38 If 30% of grain is brown from bagged seed that it is againest law under UPOV78 and it would make up for the lost revenue needed. Why aren't seed companies going after those farmers? Further more why aren't seed growers going after parent companies to enforce the law? Reply With Quote
    Feb 12, 2019 | 10:57 39
    Quote Originally Posted by wmoebis View Post
    If 30% of grain is brown from bagged seed that it is againest law under UPOV78 and it would make up for the lost revenue needed. Why aren't seed companies going after those farmers? Further more why aren't seed growers going after parent companies to enforce the law?
    After certified seed has been grown on a commercial farm like mine it is no longer a certified variety as it may have volunteers....all you can tell someone is that its is a certain class of wheat...

    so when farmers sell to other farmers they are not selling certified seed....

    Sort of like the certified flax varieties that came from seed growers that didn't want to lose their premium for growing it so they blended Triffid off for years to extract a premium,,,, Reply With Quote
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  • Feb 12, 2019 | 11:03 40
    Quote Originally Posted by bucket View Post
    After certified seed has been grown on a commercial farm like mine it is no longer a certified variety as it may have volunteers....all you can tell someone is that its is a certain class of wheat...

    so when farmers sell to other farmers they are not selling certified seed....

    Sort of like the certified flax varieties that came from seed growers that didn't want to lose their premium for growing it so they blended Triffid off for years to extract a premium,,,,
    Yes was just trying to figure where the 30% accusation came from and if it is fact why seed parent and growers aren't up in the air for SEED COPS to enforce the law like Monsanto did with RR Canola. Reply With Quote
    Feb 12, 2019 | 11:06 41
    Quote Originally Posted by wmoebis View Post
    Yes was just trying to figure where the 30% accusation came from and if it is fact why seed parent and growers aren't up in the air for SEED COPS to enforce the law like Monsanto did with RR Canola.
    Do you remember the guy that got fired from a seed plant for not putting in the allowable amount of dockage in the certified seed????

    Thats where my disdain for seed growers comes from... Reply With Quote
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  • SASKFARMER3's Avatar Feb 12, 2019 | 11:52 42 Welfare for the seed companies Reply With Quote
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  • Feb 12, 2019 | 15:39 43
    Quote Originally Posted by wmoebis View Post
    Yes was just trying to figure where the 30% accusation came from and if it is fact why seed parent and growers aren't up in the air for SEED COPS to enforce the law like Monsanto did with RR Canola.
    wmoebis, PBR police do audits on farmers... What the exact numbers of slippage is... no one has said... because they either do not know because it is an underground economy system, and or it is embarrassing for the exact reasons brought to the light of day in this conversation.

    Jan 25 2018; Western Producer:
    "Member-owned seed distribution company SeCan has reached out-of-court settlements with seven western Canadian farmers who were illegally selling or attempting to sell seed varieties protected by plant breeders rights.

    Todd Hyra, SeCan’s business manger for Western Canada, said six commercial grain growers in Saskatchewan and one in Manitoba reached settlements with SeCan after illegal sales activities were discovered.

    “Our goal is to continue to educate (growers),” Hyra said in a recent news release.


    “Part of education is the willingness to take the step to enforce the rights on behalf of the breeder.”


    Under PBR regulations, grain farmers can buy and grow PBR-protected seed varieties, but the harvested crops that are produced from that seed must be sold as commercial grain."

    Under Upov 91, and PBR laws... it is also illegal to buy the variety... no matter the generation from Certified Seed, we can test for the specific genetic markers [in a variety] 20 generations down from Certified Seed... gives proof that our Canadian PBR intellectual property law legislation; recognized globally; Can prosecute farmers for buying or selling this genetic material that is specific to a certain variety.

    Bucket, EVEN if you do not know exactly the variety of seed you grow... if it is/HAPPENS TO BE/GENETIC MARKERS PROVE IT TO BE: a UPOV 78 or 91 variety... as well as being protected by PBR, [which has been in place AND AVALIABLE TO PLANT BREEDERS for 25yrs]

    THEN it IS ILLEGAL TO SELL AS PLANTING SEED TO ANYONE.

    AND

    THEN it IS ILLEGAL TO BUY AS PLANTING SEED FOR YOUR FARM... IF IT IS A UPOV 91 variety.

    Cheers Reply With Quote
    Feb 12, 2019 | 16:27 44
    Quote Originally Posted by TOM4CWB View Post
    wmoebis, PBR police do audits on farmers... What the exact numbers of slippage is... no one has said... because they either do not know because it is an underground economy system, and or it is embarrassing for the exact reasons brought to the light of day in this conversation.

    Jan 25 2018; Western Producer:
    "Member-owned seed distribution company SeCan has reached out-of-court settlements with seven western Canadian farmers who were illegally selling or attempting to sell seed varieties protected by plant breeders rights.

    Todd Hyra, SeCan’s business manger for Western Canada, said six commercial grain growers in Saskatchewan and one in Manitoba reached settlements with SeCan after illegal sales activities were discovered.

    “Our goal is to continue to educate (growers),” Hyra said in a recent news release.


    “Part of education is the willingness to take the step to enforce the rights on behalf of the breeder.”


    Under PBR regulations, grain farmers can buy and grow PBR-protected seed varieties, but the harvested crops that are produced from that seed must be sold as commercial grain."

    Under Upov 91, and PBR laws... it is also illegal to buy the variety... no matter the generation from Certified Seed, we can test for the specific genetic markers [in a variety] 20 generations down from Certified Seed... gives proof that our Canadian PBR intellectual property law legislation; recognized globally; Can prosecute farmers for buying or selling this genetic material that is specific to a certain variety.

    Bucket, EVEN if you do not know exactly the variety of seed you grow... if it is/HAPPENS TO BE/GENETIC MARKERS PROVE IT TO BE: a UPOV 78 or 91 variety... as well as being protected by PBR, [which has been in place AND AVALIABLE TO PLANT BREEDERS for 25yrs]

    THEN it IS ILLEGAL TO SELL AS PLANTING SEED TO ANYONE.

    AND

    THEN it IS ILLEGAL TO BUY AS PLANTING SEED FOR YOUR FARM... IF IT IS A UPOV 91 variety.

    Cheers

    So I guess the genetic markers should say where the Tiffid flax came from........and where were the
    PBR police on that one? Reply With Quote
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  • Feb 12, 2019 | 17:45 45
    Quote Originally Posted by bucket View Post
    So I guess the genetic markers should say where the Tiffid flax came from........and where were the
    PBR police on that one?
    Bucket,

    From talking to the farm manager at CDC Saskatoon[at the breeder farm in the day]... they did not admit it, but the breeder seed that was contaminated with the triffid genetics... appeared to originate in Saskatoon breeder farm... where triffid was first bred and developed... which would make logical and common sense... but could not be proven enough to initiate legal proceedings.

    Since the triffid gene was approved in the USA and China... they let their guard down and increased seed production before the EU approved the triffid gene. Then when the EU refused to approve the triffid event... that is when everything went sideways.

    Question; what moral reason would there be... to destroy the variety development programs at CDC Saskatoon... to prove a point of the blunder origination. Millions of $$$ were lost by farmers, grain co's... seed companies... none of which was any of their faults.

    Static electricity means normal cleaning procedures would NOT be adequate to prevent contamination of other breeder stocks of flax... if they went through the same cleaning equipment, combine, seeder etc. Not only is static electricity a problem, but if there is any moisture on any piece or part of any equipment used... the flax kernel will also stick like glue... and could release and contaminate anything any time for years into the future.

    Normally mixing a few seeds between flax varieties would not be critical. However the EU has purity testing that can test to the parts per million of DNA of the triffid gene. Since it was/is GMO... they said ZERO tolerance... down to the parts per million... even if it [the meal after crushing] was going in pet food.

    But
    This has been revealed to you before Bucket... Please forgive and let us go forward in a positive attitude.

    Cheers Reply With Quote
    Feb 12, 2019 | 17:57 46
    Quote Originally Posted by TOM4CWB View Post
    Bucket,

    From talking to the farm manager at CDC Saskatoon[at the breeder farm in the day]... they did not admit it, but the breeder seed that was contaminated with the triffid genetics... appeared to originate in Saskatoon breeder farm... where triffid was first bred and developed... which would make logical and common sense... but could not be proven enough to initiate legal proceedings.

    Since the triffid gene was approved in the USA and China... they let their guard down and increased seed production before the EU approved the triffid gene. Then when the EU refused to approve the triffid event... that is when everything went sideways.

    Question; what moral reason would there be... to destroy the variety development programs at CDC Saskatoon... to prove a point of the blunder origination. Millions of $$$ were lost by farmers, grain co's... seed companies... none of which was any of their faults.

    Static electricity means normal cleaning procedures would NOT be adequate to prevent contamination of other breeder stocks of flax... if they went through the same cleaning equipment, combine, seeder etc. Not only is static electricity a problem, but if there is any moisture on any piece or part of any equipment used... the flax kernel will also stick like glue... and could release and contaminate anything any time for years into the future.

    Normally mixing a few seeds between flax varieties would not be critical. However the EU has purity testing that can test to the parts per million of DNA of the triffid gene. Since it was/is GMO... they said ZERO tolerance... down to the parts per million... even if it [the meal after crushing] was going in pet food.

    But
    This has been revealed to you before Bucket... Please forgive and let us go forward in a positive attitude.

    Cheers
    I am going forward....what happens to those responsible the next time it happens....

    Maybe you could explain the 8 RRWHEAT plants as well and who paid for the temporary market issues....

    It's getting old that there is never a plan to hold people responsible for their misdeeds....while sending the bills back to the primary producer ....and still asking for more... Reply With Quote
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  • farmaholic's Avatar Feb 12, 2019 | 21:28 47

    To me it feels like the SeedCos and their ilk are sending in the Trojan Horse and Tom4_____ is inside. I haven't yet heard him completely denounce the proposals, only to "negotiate" the options presented to us. How about the "fuck you" option?

    This is nothing but a money grab, plain and simple.

    SeedCos should take a fucken risk breeding a variety and hope it gains widespread acceptance like the farmer's have to growing it and hoping it performs and lives up to all it's grandiose promises.

    I do not want to tithe a percentage of my crop every year to the Church of SeedCo. I already bought the fucken stuff and don't want to continue to pay to use it over and over again until I decide to buy and try something different.

    There have been some very good points made AGAINST the proposals in this thread and other threads proceeding this one on this very topic.

    Who is going to guarantee me value for their guaranteed royalties. How does this shit ever get enacted?
    Last edited by farmaholic; Feb 12, 2019 at 22:28.
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