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25.6 Million for Geo Thermal Power from Feds

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    25.6 Million for Geo Thermal Power from Feds

    Good Grief, can you believe?

    #2
    Billions for oil subsidies, no problem though right?

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/deepest-well-sask-history-geothermal-plant-1.4975061 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/deepest-well-sask-history-geothermal-plant-1.4975061

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      #3
      Should be feasible in western Canada pumping 10,000 ft plus to get btu’s Enough to make it worthwhile in 6 winter months 👍🙄

      Comment


        #4
        But I will guarantee what is going to happen.... they will tax the absolute living shit out of cheep natural gas under the guise of climate change and both heating systems in a cold climate will be unaffordable for the next generation.... any bets ????
        How will you heat your home ?? Your kids ... grandkids???

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          #5
          Originally posted by furrowtickler View Post
          How will you heat your home ?? Your kids ... grandkids???
          Hydro powered electricity - cheap and sustainable.

          Comment


            #6
            Could have two more hydro dams on the Saskatchewan river system but I don't think the environmentalists or indigenous people would let it happen.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by grassfarmer View Post
              Hydro powered electricity - cheap and sustainable.
              Grassfarmer I went on the Atco energy sense website to get these comparisons. In Alberta Atco sells both electricity and natural gas. Personally I pay $6.60 a GJ incuding carbon tax and $.20 a kw for electricity.
              Average home with an 80% efficient natural gas furnace 89 gigajoules x $6.60 = $587.4
              Average home with a 100% efficient electric heat 19911 kwh x .2 = 3982.2
              Water direct vent 67% efficient 22 gigajoules x $6.60 = $145.20
              Electric water heater 4448 kwh x .2 = $889.60

              Actually Grassfarmer this is one of my favourite pet peeves I have against environmentalists(I am not saying you are one or including you in this group) is their promotion of electricity for heat. They believe we can affordably heat our homes with electricity but as you can see with the above numbers that simply isn't the case. If you put a $300 per tonne carbon tax on natural gas it increases the cost of heating the home to $5.10 GJ + $15.10 carbon tax = 20.20 per GJ x 89 GJ = $1797.80 per year. So even with a $300 carbon tax gas is cheaper. Electrical cost would need to be half what it is in Alberta today, never happen. Enjoy your day.

              Comment


                #8
                But we farmers need a seed tax to help an industry.

                Who doesn't see how stupid some of our producer groups are that think yep we have to pay but others just take and take and the feds hand out millions if not billions to prop up shit.

                Like bucket says build two more dams on the sask and we have enough power. Cheap and good recreation area and also irrigation possibilities.


                No, because it's not the flavour of the month.

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by bucket View Post
                  Could have two more hydro dams on the Saskatchewan river system but I don't think the environmentalists or indigenous people would let it happen.
                  Actually one of the local Bands claims to have a deal with PKS to build and finance a project south of Gronlid to sell power to Sask Power but Sask Power won't go.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Geothermal is one sustainable energy source that I could support, at least in theory. It truly is renewable and sustainable with virtually no negative environmental impacts. It is reliable and non-intermittent, and it has been proven in many places around the world to work. We have the technology to drill deep and fast, and in fact have existing wells all over the place already drilled that someday will need to be either repurposed( drill deeper and turn into geothermal), or else spent large amounts of money reclaiming them. The resource is virtually unlimited.

                    Some quick math on this project, $50 million for construction costs. And it will power 5000 homes. If the generation cost of a residential power bill is $46 per month(from the Dec bill for a residence with shop we rent out), it will only take 18 years to pay back the capital costs, assuming no interest/opportunity costs on the capital, and operating and maintenance costs are $0 per year for the next 18 years. Expected life of a geothermal plant is 30 years, so I can't see any problem with the viability of this project... And of course, the deeper the wells, the lower the EROEI, as pumping costs eventually exceed the energy returned.

                    BC and Yukon have much better geothermal potential without needing such deep wells, but their electricity prices are already so cheap thanks to Hydro, that none have been developed, since it still can't compete.

                    But when fossil fuels eventually reach their economically recoverable limits, other than nuclear, geothermal looks like the only reasonable alternative so far conceived. Might as well prove (or disprove) the concept now, to have one more tool in the box, so we don't all starve and freeze in the dark relying on solar and wind someday.
                    Last edited by AlbertaFarmer5; Jan 14, 2019, 02:38. Reason: Incorrect values used in payback calcs.

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                      #11
                      AF5, There are some residential geothermal heating systems here. The owners claim in the coldest conditions the system has a hard time keeping up....need a back up or supplemental(fire place). These systems aren't in old houses with poor energy efficiency either.

                      Also they complain about their power bills...pumps, heat exchange fans etc.

                      Nothing is free, but which leaves the smallest Enviro footprint and most cost effective.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by farmaholic View Post
                        AF5, There are some residential geothermal heating systems here. The owners claim in the coldest conditions the system has a hard time keeping up....need a back up or supplemental(fire place). These systems aren't in old houses with poor energy efficiency either.

                        Also they complain about their power bills...pumps, heat exchange fans etc.

                        Nothing is free, but which leaves the smallest Enviro footprint and most cost effective.
                        Back when natural gas prices were sky rocketing with no end in sight, and power prices were still reasonable, it was stating to make sense for residential applications, and quite a few systems were installed locally, I even considered that as a business venture. Then the fracking revolution happened, and gas prices dropped probably to stay there for decades to come, and the economics of home heating with geothermal fell apart, most systems I know of cost more in electricity for pumps than they return in heat equivalent. Even the new pool in town was geothermal, but last I knew the system was abandoned after pouring large amounts of money into it, and retrofitted to conventional heating.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          But, to be fair, most of the residential systems are very shallow loops with a very small temperature gradient, requiring pumping massive volumes of fluids to accomplish anything, whereas a deep well such as this project will have very big temperature gradients to work with, apples and oranges.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            The Estevan system would be a true geothermal tap to underground water. Residential system us just ground heat. They work, but hey are expensive to buy upfront and run. I have one in my house here in Regina. It needs electrical power to run the circulation through the system and that can be wildly costly. I cranked up one of those -50 winters to see if it could run the entire house. Got a $1000 power bill. Now I just run it now as background supplemental floor heat in my basement - use NG cause its so cheap and efficient. Back 10 yrs ago these were popular when NG was skyrocketing. Basically wasted $20k.

                            Next I will start burning my worthless durum in the grain stove.
                            Last edited by jazz; Jan 13, 2019, 12:16.

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                              #15
                              Iceland is heated by geothermal but sitting on a volcano. Steaming hot water on top of the ground makes it a no brainer. Here no active seismic activity hence it’s gonna cost money drilling. I wonder what the temperature change is the deeper you go. I was reading about the Russians deep drilling and innovations they made to address the heat and effectively pumping drilling fluids. What shut them down was heat after 20 miles. My question is where does the pumping cost outweigh the heat value? Lots of 600 metre holes here tapped into heavy oil. I assume the estevan area wells are a lot deeper so more hot in temperate and radioactivity.

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