Renewables Chuck

[chuckChuck]

Solar potential.

The red is 1400 kwh per kw of installed capacity annually. So for every 1000 watts of panels you get 1400 kwh.
The orange is 1300 kwh per kw of installed capacity
The yellow is 1200 kwh per kw of installed capacity

A 20kw solar array at Coronach Sask. will produce 28000 kwh.

[chuckChuck]

If I provided a list of failed and failing socialist regimes and policies, as evidence that socialists don't "believe" that math applies to them, would that cause you to give up your ideologies and take a pragmatic of the issues you previously blindly supported?

This is just a distraction. Why are you wasting your time talking about failed socialist regimes? LMAO

Capitalists and socialists all build a variety of energy system capacity. Republicans think all Canadians are socialists! LOL

Find a small group of like minded people who don't challenge your thinking and stay away from public discussion forums because you are not up to the challenge of staying on topic or backing up your arguments with some evidence.

[Hamloc]

Solar potential. [ATTACH]3721[/ATTACH]

The red is 1400 kwh per kw of installed capacity annually. So for every 1000 watts of panels you get 1400 kwh.
The orange is 1300 kwh per kw of installed capacity
The yellow is 1200 kwh per kw of installed capacity

A 20kw solar array at Coronach Sask. will produce 28000 kwh.

Interesting Chuck I had a post earlier that pointed out the comparison of potential solar production between China and Canada, you had no comment. But now I can use your numbers. Roof mount solar system grid tie is roughly $2.60 an installed watt, ground mount(what will work in my yard) is an additional $.60 a watt. I believe this is before subsidies and without any system to rotate panels to account for change in the angle of the sun over the year. So a 20 kw roof mount grid tie system costs $52000. Using your pride of $.08 a kw you would produce $.08 x 28000 kw = $2240 per year. $52000/$2240 = 23.2 years. Now other issues come into play such as subsidies and the price of electricity rising over time, as well as financing costs and system maintenance such as replacing the inverter every 10-15 years. Now for myself in Alberta the maximum I am payed at present for the power I produce is $.068 per kw and I would have the higher cost of a ground mount system. My payback would be longer. So yes they will in theory pay for themselves over time but it is a long term game. Then remember they are an intermittent source of power so a second generation system like natural gas must exist to provide power at night.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

This is just a distraction. Why are you wasting your time talking about failed socialist regimes? LMAO

Capitalists and socialists all build a variety of energy system capacity. Republicans think all Canadians are socialists! LOL

Find a small group of like minded people who don't challenge your thinking and stay away from public discussion forums because you are not up to the challenge of staying on topic or backing up your arguments with some evidence.

You can add reading comprehension to the list of incompetencies of socialists, along with tolerance and patience... thank you for pointing that out.

Also, thanks for proving that socialists with an agenda aren't good at math with the previous post you made, do you care to check what is mathematically wrong in the cut and paste you made?

And I apologize once again for keeping you waiting, unfortunately, those of us in the real world have actual work to do, and can't spend all of our time Trolling Agriville. Winter has been postponed once again due to lack of interest, positive temps for most of the 7 day forecast, so I have better things to do right now. How about you address some of my previous questions though since you seem to have lots of time?

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Interesting Chuck I had a post earlier that pointed out the comparison of potential solar production between China and Canada, you had no comment. But now I can use your numbers. Roof mount solar system grid tie is roughly $2.60 an installed watt, ground mount(what will work in my yard) is an additional $.60 a watt. I believe this is before subsidies and without any system to rotate panels to account for change in the angle of the sun over the year. So a 20 kw roof mount grid tie system costs $52000. Using your pride of $.08 a kw you would produce $.08 x 28000 kw = $2240 per year. $52000/$2240 = 23.2 years. Now other issues come into play such as subsidies and the price of electricity rising over time, as well as financing costs and system maintenance such as replacing the inverter every 10-15 years. Now for myself in Alberta the maximum I am payed at present for the power I produce is $.068 per kw and I would have the higher cost of a ground mount system. My payback would be longer. So yes they will in theory pay for themselves over time but it is a long term game. Then remember they are an intermittent source of power so a second generation system like natural gas must exist to provide power at night.

Very realistic numbers, and as you point out, if you ignore maintenance, opportunity cost and financing costs on that capital, a payback of 23 years seems almost viable. Now go to your bank and tell them you want to finance a depreciating asset for 23 years (probably more like 40+ when the other factors are considered, actually, it may well approach infinity once the lifespan of the assets and all other factors are included, as finance terms are stretched out to make it viable), and see if they are eager. Alternately go to the board of directors of any company and suggest they invest in a great money making scheme with a payback that is only a few decades long, and see how much capital they will devote. You and I can see this, but the mathematically challenged who keep promoting such lunacy just can't seem to comprehend such concepts.

[jazz]

Subsidized green energy...that's not economically viable. No place in Canada can support wind or solar without a massive govt grant or tax dollars thrown at it. My chart is accurate.

And on a 20 yr payback the equipment will be worthless and you will have to repeat your entire sunk cost again.

What about the massive pit mining operation that needs to accompany the technology to extract rare earth metals for the equipment and lithium for the batteries. Where is that cost. You have to move millions of tons of overburden to extract a tiny amount of these elements. Will make the oil sands look like nothing.

[oneoff]

Quote from Jazz
"No place in Canada is suitable for solar. Some places wind might be viable but they are a long way from where the power is needed."

Wrong on both counts.

[ATTACH]3720[/ATTACH]

"Wind energy is the fastest-growing major source of new electricity in Canada. It is also growing rapidly in more than 90 countries around the world, including the U.S. where four states now generate 30 per cent or more of their electricity using wind energy.

As of August 2018, Canada’s installed wind energy capacity was 12,796 megawatts (MW) — enough to power over 3.8 million homes, supplying about six per cent of our country’s electricity demand. Four new projects saw completion that added 546 MW of new installed capacity,"

Well chuck....I'm calling bullshit "on both counts"
Its as simple as saying that new installed solar capacity will deliver "continuously" a little over one sixth on its installed capacity. You should know it's 15%; and not much more....because you have been told enough times.

For wind; approximately 30 some percent of installed capacity (at best) is what will be produced..on average; under actual real conditions over a "daily" period (and only in areas where wind power will actually be viable. And you've had ample time over several years to confirm it for yourself.

I refer you to that recent post obviously meant to show the "huge" movement towards wind and maybe solar energy conversion. Why not post how much wind or solar energy was actually produced by that installed capacity.


Yet you still delude yourself (and worse yet still persist in trying to convince others who are susceptible to such nonsense) that laws of nature, physics and common sense are not germane to an intelligent discussion on renewable resources.

Perhaps you don t realize it; but such an attitude reflects badly on a person's character.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Well chuck....I'm calling bullshit "on both counts"
Its as simple as saying that new installed solar capacity will deliver "continuously" a little over one sixth on its installed capacity. You should know it's 15%; and not much more....because you have been told enough times.

For wind; approximately 30 some percent of installed capacity (at best) is what will be produced..on average; under actual real conditions over a "daily" period (and only in areas where wind power will actually be viable. And you've had ample time over several years to confirm it for yourself.

I refer you to that recent post obviously meant to show the "huge" movement towards wind and maybe solar energy conversion. Why not post how much wind or solar energy was actually produced by that installed capacity.


Yet you still delude yourself (and worse yet still persist in trying to convince others who are susceptible to such nonsense) that laws of nature, physics and common sense are not germane to an intelligent discussion on renewable resources.

Perhaps you don t realize it; but such an attitude reflects badly on a person's character.

See, now there are good examples of where the a ability t perform simple math would have come in handy.

[chuckChuck]

"four states now generate 30 per cent or more of their electricity using wind energy."

You better call up Saskpower and tell them to stop their wind energy projects because with your "vast" experience in managing provincial utilities and renewables they must be making a terrible mistake!

[chuckChuck]

https://data.bloomberglp.com/bnef/sites/14/2018/02/Sustainable-Energy-in-America-2018-Factbook.pdf

"New U.S. wind and solar build, combined with an easing drought in the West, drove renewable generation up from 15% to 18% of the total electricity mix in one year, while contributions from natural gas and coal tapered modestly.

Renewable generation (including hydropower) soared 14% to an estimated 717TWh in 2017, from 628TWh in 2016. The expansion brought renewables to 18% of total U.S. generation – double their contribution a decade ago. Renewables achieved new heights partly due to a rebound in hydro (up 13%, or 36TWh) as reservoir levels on the West Coast recovered after a severe, prolonged drought. At the
same time, a chart busting number of wind and solar projects built in 2016 (nearly 23GW worth) had their first full year of operation in 2017 , bolstering non -hydro renewable generation by 15% to 413TWh. The surge further establishes renewables’ critical role in the U.S. power mix – renewable
technologies now contribute nearly as much electricity as the nuclear fleet."

[chuckChuck]

SaskPower announces 10 megawatt solar project, first in Sask.
https://globalnews.ca/news/4284462/saskpower-announces-10-megawatt-solar-project-first-in-sask/

[seldomseen]

Thanks for kind of proving a point about how socialists work Chuck. The USA doesn't sign the Paris accord and won't force a carbon tax on its people just gets to work and builds infrastructure. Builds wind and solar; makes ethanol and bio diesel.

Here in good old socialists Canada we take a huge delegation to Paris and make grandiose speeches and sign the stupid accord with all the flare as if we just saved the world. Than come back here and force a tax on the people, but do nothing else at all other than talk!

[chuckChuck]

Thanks for kind of proving a point about how socialists work Chuck. The USA doesn't sign the Paris accord and won't force a carbon tax on its people just gets to work and builds infrastructure. Builds wind and solar; makes ethanol and bio diesel.

Here in good old socialists Canada we take a huge delegation to Paris and make grandiose speeches and sign the stupid accord with all the flare as if we just saved the world. Than come back here and force a tax on the people, but do nothing else at all other than talk!

I don't understand how a capitalist USA can be installing renewable energy capacity if it doesn't work?

And China a communist state is installing renewable energy capacity as well. Hmmmm?

Perhaps it has nothing to do with politics and is about making pragmatic decisions based on what is the cheapest and cleanest source of electricity?

Meanwhile some posters can't seem to tolerate any renewable technology and spend most of their time trying to repeatedly explain the obvious current limitations of wind and solar.

It is a good thing our ancestors weren't as negative as some posters and didn't just stop innovating and inventing after they created fire and stone tools, or we would all be still sitting in a damp cave! LOL

[oneoff]

Talk about missing the point!!!. And when will such people ever get their hands out of everyone else's pockets.

[oneoff]

Talk about missing the points!!!. And when will such people ever get their hands out of everyone else's pockets?