Layoffs coming at Bourgault

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Layoffs coming at Bourgault

Nov 7, 2018 | 10:03 1 Bourgault Industries basically came out and said machinery cost are getting too high, so we need to lay off 50 employees. They also noted yields were down, and commodity prices are terrible.
They must have got the memo from the dealerships, we won’t be ordering and early Christmas gifts. Who will be next? Reply With Quote
Nov 7, 2018 | 10:31 2
Quote Originally Posted by bigzee View Post
Bourgault Industries basically came out and said machinery cost are getting too high, so we need to lay off 50 employees. They also noted yields were down, and commodity prices are terrible.
They must have got the memo from the dealerships, we won’t be ordering and early Christmas gifts. Who will be next?

Where's that 120 ft drill I've been waiting for? Reply With Quote
Nov 7, 2018 | 10:34 3 Who's next .....

1. Morris Industries although they got some provincial funding...
2. CleanSeed technologies but they have some time to burn government money yet...
3. Processors
4. Dealerships.... starting to see cracks ...
5. Farmers ..just lok at the catalog that will be coming....If you a recently graduated auctioneer , you chose a good 5 year career coming...

You cant consolidate agriculture and think building 84 foot drills every year is sustainable....or 120 foot for that matter... Reply With Quote
Nov 7, 2018 | 10:48 4
Quote Originally Posted by bucket View Post
Who's next .....
I bet AGT Foods....

basically built up infrastructure here and overseas to dominate the lentil/pulse trade, now its stalled. They are trying to get movement in other commodities but nobody I know is selling to them. They have sent some desperate texts out in the past few weeks. Reply With Quote
Nov 7, 2018 | 10:51 5
Quote Originally Posted by jazz View Post
I bet AGT Foods....

basically built up infrastructure here and overseas to dominate the lentil/pulse trade, now its stalled. They are trying to get movement in other commodities but nobody I know is selling to them. They have sent some desperate texts out in the past few weeks.
You know they just pocketed 100 plus million from the federal government by inflating the costs of repairs to the rail line they just bought...

New guidance coming from them on November 12....they will be fine with more guys getting into provincial politics to cover up and re-finance them.... Reply With Quote
iceman's Avatar Nov 7, 2018 | 10:52 6
Quote Originally Posted by jazz View Post
I bet AGT Foods....

basically built up infrastructure here and overseas to dominate the lentil/pulse trade, now its stalled. They are trying to get movement in other commodities but nobody I know is selling to them. They have sent some desperate texts out in the past few weeks.
They built it up by issuing more shares to the market. Not once was it their money. Reply With Quote
Nov 7, 2018 | 10:56 7
Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
They built it up by issuing more shares to the market. Not once was it their money.
Don't forget they want to go private now....extract some government money...I can connect the dots to the GTH scam on this deal.... Reply With Quote
Nov 7, 2018 | 10:57 8
Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
They built it up by issuing more shares to the market. Not once was it their money.
The last financial report on these guys stated they had like a 600M in assets (a year ago) and 500 million in debt. Bet those two numbers are a lot closer by now.

AGT rebuffs bankruptcy rumours


Maybe they can get that pasta plant built soon.
Last edited by jazz; Nov 7, 2018 at 11:05.
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Nov 7, 2018 | 11:08 9 Bourgault dealers too high priced or would rather sell a seed hawk !

Local agt lentil plant run by a moron so no one hauls there ! Reply With Quote
Nov 7, 2018 | 11:14 10
Quote Originally Posted by wiseguy View Post
Local agt lentil plant run by a moron so no one hauls there !
Sounds just like their main terminal here in regina. Only place I ever found competent in the lentil trade is Simpson Seeds. Reply With Quote
ajl
Nov 7, 2018 | 11:15 11 Parked 120' foot drills are good for livestock fencing. Hello 1985. Reply With Quote
Nov 7, 2018 | 11:17 12
Quote Originally Posted by ajl View Post
Parked 120' foot drills are good for livestock fencing. Hello 1985.
But but but....fields and farms are bigger ....it only makes sense to have 120 foot drills..... Reply With Quote
Partners's Avatar Nov 7, 2018 | 11:27 13 Prices to high?
Maybe if there wasn't a 100% market up of costs they would sell more..
Air tanks showed up at dealer 6 months early so that was a indication..
It is time others shared our shitty prices.. Reply With Quote
fjlip's Avatar Nov 7, 2018 | 11:38 14 Give them something to do, send anything over 50' back to rebuild DOWN to 50' WAY simpler, more efficient, don't need $100,000 sectional complication. Oh and 500 bu carts are LOTS, bigger is better insanity will grind to a halt or they will all go broke. Reply With Quote
Nov 7, 2018 | 11:46 15 I have always said that any manufacture who would replicate the old versatile model would dominate this industry. Just simple, straight up, low maint, no frills equip that does its job and lasts.

Its the same reason why pickup trucks are $75k. Too much extra junk going in. Always thinking of bells and whistles to stick in. Reply With Quote
Nov 7, 2018 | 11:54 16 Right but half tons are discounted 25 percent to move them...A new bourgault would have to be priced below used lot prices.....they are overpriced and thats the problem....

Basically what bourgault has said is they were extracting as much as possible given the price for grain....

Thats almost the same as what Weston did with bread prices...actually it is the same...
Last edited by bucket; Nov 7, 2018 at 11:57.
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blackpowder's Avatar Nov 7, 2018 | 12:24 17 Seeding equipment depreciation has become ludicrous. No industry can sustain that. Rather telling now I think about it. Dealerships using lowest RB history price as trade value.
Writing has been on wall for 2 or 3 years now. New Seedhawks on RB last couple years for deep discounts??
Capacity follows curves like everything else. The lag period is where people get caught. Good deals coming.
I just hope we don't lose too many of our locally manufactured lines. But of course that's the next phase. Don't gloat when it happens.
We'll be dealing with the big boys exclusively. Reply With Quote
Nov 7, 2018 | 12:39 18 But the bourgaults wanted to go up against the big boys and prove them better....BUT they outpaced the big boys and really on an average year you can't see the difference...

Guys with bourgaults have to grow more because of the initial costs associated with them...

A little different if you buy a used one and then start spending to fix their weak points....

A fucking set of massey 360 discers seeded right across the road from a million dollar bourgault drill and you couldn't tell the difference....The fuel to seed that quarter with the big rig cost more than a set of discers ...there is the problem... Reply With Quote
Nov 7, 2018 | 12:45 19 Will be interesting to watch the next RB auction in Stoon .... 51 or so JD combines.
Will be some good buys if your into green.
Depreciation is a function of true value .
When going to trade shows the past 5 years and seeing what has been going on .... it was just a matter of time before shtf.
There is virtually no market for some of this massive equipment beyond its first sale.
That and you need a $750,000 tractor to pull most of these huge units . The numbers don’t add up on 90% of the farms . That and the very few guys able to utilize that equipment don’t , or have not been buying used . Leaves a lot of big units at scrap iron prices 2 years later.
They are very good seeding units , just not practical on the majority of farms. Others may follow suit , Seed Hawk , seed Master ... hard to say , time will tell.
Will be not good if they do , but it’s their own fault for pandering to 10% if their customer base the past 10 years.
Cash flow just simply can’t sustain a tractor and seeding unit at $1.5 million. Even the biggest farms are struggling to pencil that out. And it starting to show with reduced sales and huge depreciation on auction lots for several years now . Reply With Quote
fjlip's Avatar Nov 7, 2018 | 13:18 20 up agree, seen many results and real hard to see any diff. 5710 can seed the same crop at 10% of the purchase price, simple rebuild able, our 1998 rarely needs any repair.
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Last edited by fjlip; Nov 7, 2018 at 13:23.
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Nov 7, 2018 | 13:36 21 My pathetic rat trap beat up old 5710 grew just as good a crop as any drill around. Not just bourgault. ANY DRILL. Canola isnt as fussy about being placed perfect anymore. Comes up 2" down.

Thought guys were saving so much canola seed with the new drill that it paid for the drill?

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Last edited by jazz; Nov 7, 2018 at 14:04.
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fjlip's Avatar Nov 7, 2018 | 14:15 22 What an awful looking crop!
Feel sorry for half million dollar drill owners.
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Last edited by fjlip; Nov 7, 2018 at 14:31.
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Nov 7, 2018 | 14:28 23 I also think Bourgault kinda shot themselves in the foot by strictly focusing on dry fertilizer for their seed tanks . More and more farmers are using liquid for at least some of their fertility. Products like Bio Sul sulfur also having an impact.
Huge complex expensive seed tanks are not absolutely needed even on big drills.
With dry fertilizer issues so prevalent the past few years more and more bigger farms are just floating on N/S . Simply can’t afford the downtime or frustration unplugging hoses at seeding time. But that’s with all dry seeding outfits not just Bourgault. But it plays a part in the overall trend.
Not saying that’s right or wrong , but it is happening.
Seed master caught on a few years ago offering a canola tank and the others could be liquid or dry tanks set up in any configuration or size basically.
Bourgault stayed the same for their tank design , just bigger and more dry tanks and that’s it. They have been ignoring the trend for years.
They still make a great product , just got overpriced and stayed focused on dry fertilizer. Reply With Quote
Partners's Avatar Nov 7, 2018 | 15:07 24 When we bought our 8810 in 2012 the fellow at BG factory said it will grow as good of a crop as the new drills..But we can't make any money selling $100 thousand dollar seeding tools. Reply With Quote
Nov 7, 2018 | 16:19 25 We have a neighbor seeding with an older 8800 , 8 in , single shoot , plastic packers .
Again this year grew a great crop of canola in conditions that were very dry at and after seeding . Every year he produces some of the best most consistent canola in the whole area. As do a few others with flexi coils and technotills - cheap and very effective set ups .
Point is , it’s not so much the seeding tool , it’s the guy operating, regardless of drill 98% of the time. But big farms need big drills to be efficient , and all new big drills come with all the bells and whistles so costs are astronomical.
Regardless, the fact that Bourgault is laying off people and sales are slow are simply a reflection that they spent too much time and effort building overpriced huge drills and tanks for a small segment of big farmers who are changing.
Being overly priced , complicated, and focusing on huge one pass seeding outfits will be putting not only Bourgault under stress , but others as well .
All new machinery is now completely out of any reasonable price range even for the biggest most efficient farms.
To blame on poor crop prices is kinda misleading. #3 hrsw is selling for more than #1 last year. And for the most part yields were not far off last year in most areas other than the SW Sask .
Simply retail prices are far too high and that gets reflected at the auction mart. Reply With Quote
Nov 7, 2018 | 17:24 26 I get along fine with my old 5710 most of the time and the crop comes up as good as any drill. The one time the expensive independent drills worked better was when it is really wet my steel packers would plug with mud and drag down the field and the independents would keep rolling. I such a case putting a set of shovels on an 8810 with harrows then harrow packing works just as good as the independent.

Reading all the comments on this thread might hurt a few egos! Reply With Quote
fjlip's Avatar Nov 7, 2018 | 17:40 27 Dragging all those TONNES of iron on not so dry soil equals a crop poor in the tracks. One fellow has a quad pulling at least 65' with a tracked 950 tank. SFA grows where those 8 tracks go. Seeded for 17 years with an 8810 ,poly and 3195, about $70K brand new, always had a crop. That was low cost per acre! I am smiling that I am not alone seeding with low value iron . We can be our own worst enemy. K.I.S.S.
Last edited by fjlip; Nov 7, 2018 at 17:45.
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Nov 7, 2018 | 17:46 28
Quote Originally Posted by jazz View Post
My pathetic rat trap beat up old 5710 grew just as good a crop as any drill around. Not just bourgault. ANY DRILL. Canola isnt as fussy about being placed perfect anymore. Comes up 2" down.

Thought guys were saving so much canola seed with the new drill that it paid for the drill?

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Anything will grow a nice crop on flat ground. I have rolling land and some good hills. My Seedhawk yields more than my Flexi Coil 5000. Where the land is “flatter” the yield isn’t that much different. I would never seed canola with the 5000 in rolling land, especially with today’s seed costs. Reply With Quote
Nov 7, 2018 | 18:03 29 I also run a 5710. Cost was right. However it definitely needs a level surface, otherwise you get a lot of seed dropped on the surface. On the rough ground (sod breaking) where we grow oats it doesn’t pay to spend the big money on fancy drill, oats sure don’t pay for that. Some of these carts alone are advertised for $350k, that’s absolutely insane, we have lost our way if we pay that. Reply With Quote
Nov 7, 2018 | 18:11 30 The bigger seed drills are needed for guys seeding 10,000 ac / drill, I don’t think there egos will be bothered at all lol. All seed drills will do a decent job , it’s just the cost / ft of new drills, associated tanks and power requirements are huge now . Wether you cover 4000 ac with a 50 ft or 8-10,000 ac with a 90ft drill its all kinda relative . It’s just the cost of new drills and tanks is extremely high now and the used market for big drills is relatively small due to very large power and hydraulic requirements. Also only specific areas are suited to the very big drills and tanks.
Even the smaller drills take a beating at auctions, seed units seem to be almost Farm specific . What works for one guy may not be the answer to the guy next door at all.
I have seen a lot of very good crops grown with very big drills as well , and constantly around here. It’s really not about that , it’s about the cost of iron being crazy high and the bigger the outfit the more it has been exaggerated. That’s where the biggest depreciation kicks in. Very few farms can handle or have a need for very large drills , not that they are not great drills at all , just a very limited used market. Reply With Quote