A chance to act on seed saving/end point royalties etc

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A chance to act on seed saving/end point royalties etc

Nov 3, 2018 | 16:58 1 Here is an opportunity for anyone that is serious about having their voice heard. Brought to you by the NFU Canada.

"Action Alert: Register today for Consultation meetings

The corporate seed industry has convinced the federal government to take the next step towards setting up a system to make farmers pay seed companies for seed every year even when we use farm-saved seed. They are proposing to change regulations under the UPOV '91 Plant Breeders Rights Act, and are looking at two ways to do this - End Point Royalties or Trailing Contracts. Both would collect money when farmers sell their harvested crop (a per bushel royalty) -- and the seed industry expects to collect millions of dollars more from farmers every year from these payments. This money would go to seed companies such as Bayer, Syngenta, BASF and DowDupont. The system for charging a royalty on crops harvested from farm saved seed would be developed for wheat first, with the intent of applying it to other cereal crops, pulse crops, and other crop kinds later.

The NFU calls for public funding and farmer-controlled check-off funding to support plant breeding instead. Farmers are urged to protect public plant breeding by speaking out at the federal government's consultation meetings:

The consultation meeting schedule is
Winnipeg – November 16, 2018 10:00 am to 4:00 pm at Delta Hotels by Marriot Winnipeg, 350 St. Mary Ave
Ottawa – November 30, 2018 10:00 am to 4:00 pm at the Hilton Garden Inn Ottawa Airport, 2400 Alert Rd
Saskatoon – December 4, 2018 10:00 am to 4:00 pm at the Saskatoon Inn and Conference Centre, 2002 Airport Dr
Edmonton – December 6, 2018 10:00am to 4:00 pm at Renaissance Edmonton Airport Hotel, 4236 36th St
To register for a consultation meeting send an email to Kyle Kierstead at kyle.kierstead@agr.gc.ca with the subject heading "Engagement session on value creation models" and say which meeting you want to attend, and your language of choice (English or French)."

The message came with the following attachments for background:
"Overview of plant breeders rights issues in Canada"
http://http://www.nfu.ca/issues/save-our-seed

"2014 article explaining the importance of maintaining the ability to use farm saved seed"
http://http://www.nfu.ca/sites/www.nfu.ca/files/The%20Value%20of%20Farm%20Saved%20Seed.pdf Reply With Quote
Nov 3, 2018 | 17:48 2 Good post grass
A lot of us have a bad taste in our mouth from the ndp/nfu days but i think its time wevget over it
No one else is saying anything , good on the nfu
The likes of apas and all the check off scams are doing sfa Reply With Quote
Nov 3, 2018 | 18:38 3 Like everything in the Ag industry..... they think it’s an endless gravy train 🚂...... then add a completely useless carbon tax
I would like to see one example of when all these extra costs come into force of how the actual producer is going to net anything above zero ... some me the numbers Reply With Quote
Nov 3, 2018 | 19:05 4
Quote Originally Posted by grassfarmer View Post
Here is an opportunity for anyone that is serious about having their voice heard. Brought to you by the NFU Canada.

"Action Alert: Register today for Consultation meetings

The corporate seed industry has convinced the federal government to take the next step towards setting up a system to make farmers pay seed companies for seed every year even when we use farm-saved seed. They are proposing to change regulations under the UPOV '91 Plant Breeders Rights Act, and are looking at two ways to do this - End Point Royalties or Trailing Contracts. Both would collect money when farmers sell their harvested crop (a per bushel royalty) -- and the seed industry expects to collect millions of dollars more from farmers every year from these payments. This money would go to seed companies such as Bayer, Syngenta, BASF and DowDupont. The system for charging a royalty on crops harvested from farm saved seed would be developed for wheat first, with the intent of applying it to other cereal crops, pulse crops, and other crop kinds later.

The NFU calls for public funding and farmer-controlled check-off funding to support plant breeding instead. Farmers are urged to protect public plant breeding by speaking out at the federal government's consultation meetings:

The consultation meeting schedule is
Winnipeg – November 16, 2018 10:00 am to 4:00 pm at Delta Hotels by Marriot Winnipeg, 350 St. Mary Ave
Ottawa – November 30, 2018 10:00 am to 4:00 pm at the Hilton Garden Inn Ottawa Airport, 2400 Alert Rd
Saskatoon – December 4, 2018 10:00 am to 4:00 pm at the Saskatoon Inn and Conference Centre, 2002 Airport Dr
Edmonton – December 6, 2018 10:00am to 4:00 pm at Renaissance Edmonton Airport Hotel, 4236 36th St
To register for a consultation meeting send an email to Kyle Kierstead at kyle.kierstead@agr.gc.ca with the subject heading "Engagement session on value creation models" and say which meeting you want to attend, and your language of choice (English or French)."

The message came with the following attachments for background:
"Overview of plant breeders rights issues in Canada"
http://http://www.nfu.ca/issues/save-our-seed

"2014 article explaining the importance of maintaining the ability to use farm saved seed"
http://http://www.nfu.ca/sites/www.nfu.ca/files/The%20Value%20of%20Farm%20Saved%20Seed.pdf

So this, like your post on green energy expenditures, is bullshit?

grassfarmer
OCT 29, 2018 | 06:40 2
Next battleground? hardly this battle was fought and lost years ago. The agreements are in place, they have the right to charge end point royalties. Most farmers were asleep at the wheel when it happened. You let your organizations support UPOV91 while the NFU stood alone in opposing it. Now you get to live with the consequences. Reply With Quote
Nov 3, 2018 | 19:24 5
Quote Originally Posted by LWeber View Post
So this, like your post on green energy expenditures, is bullshit?
No, try to keep up. With the passage of Bill C-18 UPOV'78 was abandoned in favour of UPOV'91 despite the best efforts of the NFU. This change created the opportunity legally for seed companies to charge endpoint royalties.

This is stage two - putting that plan into play. Read the info below on the new proposal that was launched in October by Ag Canada and CFIA "a potential new funding mechanism for cereals research and variety development in Canada."........Both of the models being proposed for consideration are designed to generate additional revenue flows for breeders from farm saved seed and would be enabled through amendments to the Plant Breeders Rights Act Regulations."

Sniping and distraction don't help at this late stage - point is if farmers want to be involved in this the deadline to sign up to attend the consultations is Tomorrow If you want to achieve anything I'd suggest not just a handful show up - maybe in the thousands at each venue would send a message? Passing comment on Agriville from the beach won't achieve anything.

http://https://germination.ca/the-deadline-is-tomorrow-to-sign-up-for-consultations-on-value-creation/
Last edited by grassfarmer; Nov 3, 2018 at 19:27. Reason: edited to add attachment
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Nov 3, 2018 | 20:51 6
Quote Originally Posted by grassfarmer View Post
Here is an opportunity for anyone that is serious about having their voice heard. Brought to you by the NFU Canada.

"Action Alert: Register today for Consultation meetings

The corporate seed industry has convinced the federal government to take the next step towards setting up a system to make farmers pay seed companies for seed every year even when we use farm-saved seed. They are proposing to change regulations under the UPOV '91 Plant Breeders Rights Act, and are looking at two ways to do this - End Point Royalties or Trailing Contracts. Both would collect money when farmers sell their harvested crop (a per bushel royalty) -- and the seed industry expects to collect millions of dollars more from farmers every year from these payments. This money would go to seed companies such as Bayer, Syngenta, BASF and DowDupont. The system for charging a royalty on crops harvested from farm saved seed would be developed for wheat first, with the intent of applying it to other cereal crops, pulse crops, and other crop kinds later.

The NFU calls for public funding and farmer-controlled check-off funding to support plant breeding instead. Farmers are urged to protect public plant breeding by speaking out at the federal government's consultation meetings:

The consultation meeting schedule is
Winnipeg – November 16, 2018 10:00 am to 4:00 pm at Delta Hotels by Marriot Winnipeg, 350 St. Mary Ave
Ottawa – November 30, 2018 10:00 am to 4:00 pm at the Hilton Garden Inn Ottawa Airport, 2400 Alert Rd
Saskatoon – December 4, 2018 10:00 am to 4:00 pm at the Saskatoon Inn and Conference Centre, 2002 Airport Dr
Edmonton – December 6, 2018 10:00am to 4:00 pm at Renaissance Edmonton Airport Hotel, 4236 36th St
To register for a consultation meeting send an email to Kyle Kierstead at kyle.kierstead@agr.gc.ca with the subject heading "Engagement session on value creation models" and say which meeting you want to attend, and your language of choice (English or French)."

The message came with the following attachments for background:
"Overview of plant breeders rights issues in Canada"
http://http://www.nfu.ca/issues/save-our-seed

"2014 article explaining the importance of maintaining the ability to use farm saved seed"
http://http://www.nfu.ca/sites/www.nfu.ca/files/The%20Value%20of%20Farm%20Saved%20Seed.pdf

Yup. Big bad agribusiness company spend $100 of millions to create a new variety so you can buy 100 bus of seed for $1000 and clean it forever.
Last edited by vvalk; Nov 3, 2018 at 20:59.
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Nov 3, 2018 | 21:49 7
Quote Originally Posted by vvalk View Post
Yup. Big bad agribusiness company spend $100 of millions to create a new variety so you can buy 100 bus of seed for $1000 and clean it forever.
Sure and then they de register it before you can use it
Deregister it for no reason other than to sell new seed at $18/bu Reply With Quote
farmaholic's Avatar Nov 3, 2018 | 22:03 8
Quote Originally Posted by vvalk View Post
Yup. Big bad agribusiness company spend $100 of millions to create a new variety so you can buy 100 bus of seed for $1000 and clean it forever.
Thats a bit of an exaggeration.


Not a reply but just commenting...

All I know is I'm getting tired of "absorbing" extra costs with no effective way of passing them on.

I can't wait for the intelligent rebuttal of "if you don't like it, breed your own variety".

What percentage of your gross canola return is your seed cost(because it is different for everyone)? Now apply that percentage to your wheat gross return...if these potential changes follow the canola seed model, could you imagine paying the cost difference from what it costs you to seed wheat now to the potential costs ....year in year out. Hypothetically, "of course"!!!!!!!!!! Reply With Quote
farmaholic's Avatar Nov 3, 2018 | 22:17 9 Grassy, every time one of the bulls that you bought sires a calf on your farm do you have to send the breeder a "royalty" when you sell it's progeny? Or do you have to send the breeder a per cow breeding fee for every cow he impregnated? Year in year out.... Reply With Quote
farmaholic's Avatar Nov 3, 2018 | 22:33 10 It's a good thing these new seed rules were adopted....its going to make us soooooo competitive(especially regarding quality) with the all the other grain producers of the world that don't have this or less corporate protection. Maybe the SeedCos can set up shop in Eastern Europe or some less Capitalistic environment. Also, there are an amazing number of places in the world were subsistence(self feeding and helping to supply a small local market) farming would never be able to support this model....why does it have to here? Reply With Quote
wd9
Nov 3, 2018 | 22:40 11 Would there be both end royalty, or just end point royalty? The latter does make a lot of sense as long as that is the only royalty.

Consultations, that's funny, like you're going to change anything. Hilarious! They are called justification meetings saying they met and talked with farmers. It's already all written up. Reply With Quote
Nov 3, 2018 | 22:48 12 So ask for your check off money back from all the fucking leaches that sat on their asses and let this happen
Ask your RM why they are still supporting APAS? Reply With Quote
farmaholic's Avatar Nov 3, 2018 | 22:52 13
Quote Originally Posted by wd9 View Post
Consultations, that's funny, like you're going to change anything. Hilarious! They are called justification meetings saying they met and talked with farmers. It's already all written up.
Exactly, they feed us what they want us to eat, they don't ask...they tell! Your going to eat it AND like it. Two choices...take it or leave it. It's a force feèding or a hunger strike...either way....


Open wide, here comes the Choo chòo train. Reply With Quote
Nov 3, 2018 | 23:22 14
Quote Originally Posted by caseih View Post
So ask for your check off money back from all the fucking leaches that sat on their asses and let this happen
Ask your RM why they are still supporting APAS?

Anyone running for RM council should be asked the question, “Will you support our RM buying into APAS? “ “If you do, you are not getting my frickin vote-Period”. Reply With Quote
Nov 4, 2018 | 03:31 15 It is not like we were not warned about this.

I Do not know if we could have stopped it anyway.

We have to realize who we are dealing with. These companies are bigger than a lot of country's.

And they pay good money to have the ear of govt.s around the world.
Europe US and Canada too.

These UPOV regulations were written by the seed Co.s
Then with the right connections , they get the bought and sold govt.s to make them law.
Simple as that



Your gov. Pretended
you had a say. But you didn't.

The big lie has been the same all along.
We will guarantee you can plant
Your own seed.

They just failed to mention that you will never own a seed newer than 1985 again.

And at that ,they will do everything in their power to eliminate the old ones too.

Lots of blame to go round, and they love it when we fight amongst ourselves.
Let's them do whatever they want.
There were some real suckers wheat growers, seed growers etc.
But even if ,they were not total sellouts. It probably would not have mattered.

What now. At
Stop the infighting . pulse growers APAS. Etc.
That is exactly. What they want us to do.

Concentrate on the real enemy.
The corporations that are trying to enslave you and the consumer.
And the politicians that
Enable them.

When they own every seed, they will decide , what your cut will be.

Sure They will leave you enough to survive. Maybe.

got to keep the money coming in. Right

The consumer will ultimately pay this ransom.

The whole thing is just wrong.

At minimum farmers have to have free access to any /all off patent seed.

More important to the consumer than even us.

That is the ultimate big brother , control of every seed on the planet.

The only solution is
Free access to all off patent
Seeds

Then the seed Co.s can charge
Whatever they want for the improvements they have made.
And have them protected for 20 years.

The marketplace will reward them
For their work. For the value they add.

That is how it is supposed to work.

If they can extract every last dime from farmers and consumer's.
With 10 -20 year old varieties.
Why bother doing research for better ones.
Last edited by sawfly1; Nov 4, 2018 at 04:04.
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farmaholic's Avatar Nov 4, 2018 | 06:24 16 I can see the seed business going a couple of different directions...at first there could be a tidal wave of new releases...all SeedCo breeders wanting a piece of the action...all making "claims" there seed is superior to the "competition's"(ah-hem gag choke puke).

Then when they have everyone accustomed to paying for seed every year, either through end point royalties or farm saved seed royalties, they will throttle back on breeding "new" varieties and milk dry their current ones they have full control over.

Then you will get the onslaught of varieties that promises to be better than the current ones...for more money...of course. Sound familiar...like the canola seed model. Rebranding and renaming the same old shit for more money with little product improvement.

Or remember Liberty 5440. When it first came out it sold for about $8/lb. It was a fairly good variety and it lasted long enough in the market that that same variety was selling for about $11/lb when they finally decided to discontinue it. The price of it was dragged up with be ever increasing price of the "new and improved" successors. The Seedco was doing so well with it they even resurrected it because they were going to discontinue it...why not...they were selling an old variety at the new price without having to invest anymore money into it.

Don't get me wrong there has been advancements in canola varieties from the first ones put out but according to the advertising propaganda and seed trial data the yeilds should be "exponentially" higher...like the seed costs are...LOL!!!!! Reply With Quote
Nov 4, 2018 | 07:31 17
Quote Originally Posted by vvalk View Post
Yup. Big bad agribusiness company spend $100 of millions to create a new variety so you can buy 100 bus of seed for $1000 and clean it forever.
There was close to 10 billion dollars left in the field after the shitty weather in September and October and this is the way people justify ensuring agribusiness gets more of our dollars


Not one fucking variety maintained grade or yield by sitting out weathering....so we should give them more....

Without performance guarantees and acceptance of responsibility of dud varieties or fuck ups like the Triffid adventure they can't really ask for more....

The triffid event cost my farm 10s of thousand of dollars between testing, new varieties or reconstituted varieties and more importantly lost markets....the bill came to me ...not the scientists or agribusinesses that spent the so called 100s of millions using checkoff dollars and taxpayer dollars to create the fucking mess...

None of them were held responsible....this idea of more costs to the farm is off base...

Unless you enjoy the idea of the Syngenta lawsuit to settle everything...maybe you like lawyers fees...just another cost to the farm that doesn't help overall production...

these so called agribusinesses that spend 100s of millions for new varieties ....AGT never paid full development costs of their private label King Red lentils and neither did any other processor that got private label varieties financed through saskpulse checkoffs...

Try again????

And when do the agribusinesses pay for their misleading advertising when a variety comes up short of their claims.....is that written into the new law....recalls and reimbursement for their fuckups???? Reply With Quote
Nov 4, 2018 | 07:42 18
Quote Originally Posted by farmaholic View Post
Grassy, every time one of the bulls that you bought sires a calf on your farm do you have to send the breeder a "royalty" when you sell it's progeny? Or do you have to send the breeder a per cow breeding fee for every cow he impregnated? Year in year out....
I'm not a bull buyer I'm a seedstock bull seller. There is a parallel in the cattle business - where people sell semen off a bull that is promoted as being "a great one". Customers pay for the semen then pay again if they want to register a calf off it - a $50 or $100 "certificate fee". I'm the other way - breeding the genetics as good as we can to work in a real world environment and then pricing them low so that the commercial rancher can make money off them.
That's why we should have public plant breeding. Reply With Quote
Nov 4, 2018 | 07:57 19
Quote Originally Posted by grassfarmer View Post
I'm not a bull buyer I'm a seedstock bull seller. There is a parallel in the cattle business - where people sell semen off a bull that is promoted as being "a great one". Customers pay for the semen then pay again if they want to register a calf off it - a $50 or $100 "certificate fee". I'm the other way - breeding the genetics as good as we can to work in a real world environment and then pricing them low so that the commercial rancher can make money off them.
That's why we should have public plant breeding.
When you buy a purebred bull and he performs well..when he is done he is still worth something....

Not so in buying new seed with these royalties attached ....it becomes worthless to the average grain farmer...by either deregistering it or by having to buy another lease on a new variety...

Maybe thats where the fuckheads get their ideas ...leasing trucks or seed...whats the difference ? Reply With Quote
Nov 4, 2018 | 08:08 20 There is a solution. Go around the canadian terminal system. Cant apply a seed royalty to what doesnt arrive at the pit.

Let the chinese take it out in containers or truck it to ND. Our transport costs would be less taking it out on the Mississippi anyway than banging our heads against the rockies. Reply With Quote
Nov 4, 2018 | 08:27 21 - we can all agree that it costs more for plant breeding than in the past. Or can we with CRISPER the whole process is accelerated, half the time in the lab and half in the field to confirm hypothesis. So maybe it’s actually cheaper and faster to produce new varieties?

- how are the end point royalties going to be collected in foreign countries? There has been documented cases of corn seed leaving the research plots in the USA for other destinations C....

Wonder if they change the variety name, if everything is ok then?
Most countries buy on price and quality, they will not enforce, monitor or even care who has the “patent” ?

- it has been suggested that to keep ahead we have to spend and invest more, “trust me “, what other countries have legit breeding programs that could compromise the breeding companies market share, effectiveness and competitiveness for Canadian growers?

- Eastern Europe Russia, Ukraine, Kasikstan, etc why bother, they have companies set up in Saskatoon and else where to export the newest and best. They hire agroligists saskatchewan to show them “how too”, where why and how. Plus financial advisors, etc. Equipment manufactures, that’s how you grow your company.

- Clause has talked about Argentina, the only problems they have are currency, government, corruption etc

- India, Pakistan, Europe, Brazil, Australia, etc which countries are truly contributing to plant breeding, and which ones have an office, lab, few employees for show?

- if the majors want exclusive varieties, royalties, etc then provide a true harmonized system where all seed and chemicals are sold at the same price! Level the playing field. Sell in every country based on the dreaded US dollar. The vast majority of insecticides, herbicides, Biologicals are being manufactured in India and China. One formulation plant in Regina, bring home the manufacturing jobs to Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal, if all this research is being done here.

We don’t need a system where they charge what the market can absorb, we see this all the time with our Fertilizer industry, prices based on Florida or New Orleans, plus freight, currency etc because we are a captive market. The cost to produce N has Never been less.

- feels like trying to maximize share holder value. In the case of farmer funded or public funded breeders it’s assumed private sector can’t do it as well as private, ?

With producer funds in Sask the breeding is done with the Crop Development Center.
- is this CDC owned by the UofS ?
- does CDC support and promotes upov?
- to what extent, how many dollars go to general revenue from CDC? Or simply asked, how much money are they making? Is government supporting upov for this reason, less need for their funds?

Vandervalk, you are correct in how the system is being utilized. Your farm might have equity to offset the increased costs. It’s not going to help or improve your competitiveness growing, canola, barley etc. There used to be (still is?) a strong livestock sector. Why are corn ddg displacing barley, not enough barley breeding or research? Where did all the packing plants go? This is what’s happening to crop farmers, we are having it handed to us by competing exporters, in other countries that grow our varieties ( or similar), it’s competativeness issues and battles that are of utmost importance! Reply With Quote
Nov 4, 2018 | 08:55 22 Why don't we just all start putting in timesheet and be paid for the work we do.....

This is fucking stupid already ...everyone just keeps asking for more...

Fuel, Fertilizer, machinery,

We have all become margin farmers...

Meanwhile in the capitalist business side of things...the railways get grain cars at a guaranteed profit....they could call a scrap yard and make money...AGT buys a railway and gets it repaired from the government...

But primary producers are a proud bunch and are more than willing to mortgage their farms against the treasuries of other countries....


Holy fuck is all I can say... Reply With Quote
Nov 4, 2018 | 10:49 23 Walk

"Yup. Big bad agribusiness company spend $100 of millions to create a new variety so you can buy 100 bus of seed for $1000 and clean it forever."

No surprise you would get a response from any member of the WCWGA such as this. Seems a few of them attended Syngenta’s Grower University 1 & 2.

So of course the former students at Syngenta Grower University are not going to forget who to defend in UPOV '91 Plant Breeders Rights Act.

I'll be willing to bet the farm that WCWGA receives funding from many large Agro business' to lobby governments on their behalf to get their agendas heard and put through. We all know how the WCWGA had the ear of Ritz Cracker the whole time he was Ag minister. How many Ag programs were cut during the Ostrich Farmers reign?

SK 3 started this thread Oct 29 "Farm-saved seed royalties are next battleground! F#$K YOU enough is enough."

Never heard a peep from Walk concerning that thread, but when Grassy brings it forward and mentions the NFU and L Weber shoot's him down, low and behold Walk appears.

I guess it must have been Walk's week off from reading Agriville when Sk3 started his thread and he just must have miss it. We've been bless with Walk's present twice in a week, lucky us. Reply With Quote
Nov 4, 2018 | 10:56 24 I think legally seed co's have a problem. The case would be, as example, I buy Brandon seed and PBR allows levies at first purchase. I clean progeny and breeder wants fees now. That Brandon progeny is now a generation removed. Is it even pure? Has there been cross contamination? Can anyone guarantee it's genetically pure Brandon? Will it even perform? Once it goes in our dirt it's our property. Period.

Also on the legal side, seed is already very expensive. If this comes to pass, varieties with high cost, end point, trailing contracts etc must assume performance guarantees. Producer files non performance claim when variety lacking. Seed companies must as well back off. Liability would be HUGE. Most farms would have a case every year. Reply With Quote
Nov 4, 2018 | 10:58 25
Quote Originally Posted by foragefarmer View Post
Walk

"Yup. Big bad agribusiness company spend $100 of millions to create a new variety so you can buy 100 bus of seed for $1000 and clean it forever."

No surprise you would get a response from any member of the WCWGA such as this. Seems a few of them attended Syngenta’s Grower University 1 & 2.

So of course the former students at Syngenta Grower University are not going to forget who to defend in UPOV '91 Plant Breeders Rights Act.

I'll be willing to bet the farm that WCWGA receives funding from many large Agro business' to lobby governments on their behalf to get their agendas heard and put through. We all know how the WCWGA had the ear of Ritz Cracker the whole time he was Ag minister. How many Ag programs were cut during the Ostrich Farmers reign?


SK 3 started this thread Oct 29 "Farm-saved seed royalties are next battleground! F#$K YOU enough is enough."

Never heard a peep from Walk concerning that thread, but when Grassy brings it forward and mentions the NFU and L Weber shoot's him down, low and behold Walk appears.

I guess it must have been Walk's week off from reading Agriville when Sk3 started his thread and he just must have miss it. We've been bless with Walk's present twice in a week, lucky us.

Thats it ...now I get it ...wasnt sure sure but the WCWGA won't defend their absolute incompetence as a lark to Gerry Ritz on behalf of their funding partners...

They will gladly walk into the chamber and unfortunately for the rest of us to our demise as well...

"""Fool me once shame on you,,, fool me twice shame on me...."" Reply With Quote
Nov 4, 2018 | 11:28 26
Quote Originally Posted by vvalk View Post
Yup. Big bad agribusiness company spend $100 of millions to create a new variety so you can buy 100 bus of seed for $1000 and clean it forever.
Thats your argument ...holy fuck....Farmers spend billions every fucking year and there is no guarantee they get that money back....

Seems you don't understand something....the primary producer has to make money for the rest of the system to function properly....and that may include some adhoc payments from governments occasionally...

No different that Bombardier, the railways , the graincos, etc etc etc....No capitalist business in Canada works without help available from government.....Not one. Reply With Quote
Nov 4, 2018 | 12:04 27
Quote Originally Posted by bucket View Post
Thats your argument ...holy fuck....Farmers spend billions every fucking year and there is no guarantee they get that money back....

Seems you don't understand something....the primary producer has to make money for the rest of the system to function properly....and that may include some adhoc payments from governments occasionally...

No different that Bombardier, the railways , the graincos, etc etc etc....No capitalist business in Canada works without help available from government.....Not one.
Yes that is my argument. You have never gone to a seed grower and picked up a 3 ton of seed. Grow it on 40 or 80 acres to clean seed for the 1500 or 2000 acres and then clean that seed for the next 3-5 years. You expect companies to invest in research with a model like that. No one is forcing you to buy or pay end point rolaties on any seed. Your free to use existing varieties. Why not bitch about the WGRF and all the stolen farmers money they have? Where are their new varieties or beeeding programs?
Most on here bitch about canola seed costs and the whole system yet bitch that rotations are pushed too far and that if we lose canola do to clubroot we are in trouble since canola is our most profitable crop. Which is it? Newest most expensive varieties always sell out first
Lastly on comments against the Wcwga. Do you think the very successful farmer directors, who spend their own money to sit on that board do to budget restrictions, want to see profits reduced? Reply With Quote
Nov 4, 2018 | 12:23 28
Quote Originally Posted by vvalk View Post
Yes that is my argument. You have never gone to a seed grower and picked up a 3 ton of seed. Grow it on 40 or 80 acres to clean seed for the 1500 or 2000 acres and then clean that seed for the next 3-5 years. You expect companies to invest in research with a model like that. No one is forcing you to buy or pay end point rolaties on any seed. Your free to use existing varieties. Why not bitch about the WGRF and all the stolen farmers money they have? Where are their new varieties or beeeding programs?
Most on here bitch about canola seed costs and the whole system yet bitch that rotations are pushed too far and that if we lose canola do to clubroot we are in trouble since canola is our most profitable crop. Which is it? Newest most expensive varieties always sell out first
Lastly on comments against the Wcwga. Do you think the very successful farmer directors, who spend their own money to sit on that board do to budget restrictions, want to see profits reduced?
Fair comments but answer these for the Pro side of this debate...I watched the Munk debate the other night so I am thinking of following that in another thread .....

1. Who pays for the varietal duds that show up time to time ? I can name two instances that the developer or seed grower onset pick up varietal duds....the primary producer does...misleading advertising?

2. Who pays for the fuck up like the triffid issue...the government didn't help one primary producer out on that.

3. Should their be a rethink of funding...I will concede the WGRF extracts too much of farmers money but then again so does the CGC...we can agree on that...

4. Do we need all these checkoffs and then still pay higher prices for seed consider our upfront "seed" money to start the process? Reply With Quote
Nov 4, 2018 | 12:28 29 One other comment is that our so called customers don't want quality nor quantity any more...

Durum isn't moving and neither are pulses....Maybe a reset is required as to where our dollars are going to help move these volumes....

Seems senseless that we had a reputation of high quality grains and our base grades keep falling... Reply With Quote
Nov 4, 2018 | 12:43 30 This is fucked. If your of age yoy have several years left before the finish line you have to ask yourself where is this industry headed? If your close to the finish line you have ask if you want all your retirement eggs in 1 basket. We got govt hunting for taxes, fingers in our bank accounts, suppliers that are trying to get a bigger cut off the host. Bring the reset with crash and burn. It's time to reassess the business model and make changes. When's bigger no longer better? NOW! Reply With Quote