Any advice on air drill openers?

[Hamloc]

I realize this isn't a marketing question but looking at changing openers on my flexicoil 5000 seeding tool. 10 inch spacing with 4 inch rubber packers. Presently using atom jet side band. Quite happy with results in canola and peas but I feel I am loosing yield in wheat. Looking at twin row openers. Dutch universal, Bourgault tillage, Atom jet and Gen openers are my 4 options imo, probably 3.5 inch spread. Use all granular put down in one pass. Any input?

[farmaholic]

We used 3.5 inch Dutch low draft paired row on a NH SD440(same as 5000). We had the one with the shortest "beak" and don't think we got proper separation of fert(granular ) and canola seed......even though we paid attention to air velocity to try and eliminate product mixing at the opener. Maybe an opener with a longer beak would have been better.

V packers or round? Match your opener to your packers

Openers are expensive and most people can't afford to change your mind if they don't like them, research and choose wisely.

Good luck Hamloc.

ps....used the one.with the shortest beak because we didn't want to fracture/tear open the seed bed so much and make it prone to drying out.

Edit edit...shit, I edited out the fert type question...sorry lol

[Hamloc]

Farma, flat rubber capped packer and all fert is a granular blend.

[farmaholic]

Farma, flat rubber capped packer and all fert is a granular blend.

In my opinion, getting proper packing based on your packer style is important to sealing off the trench as best possible. But maybe not for the chronic too wet guys ;-)

Our packers were the round steel so I thought it was a good match for the Dutch low draft.

[MBgrower]

what soil type, moisture conditions in your area?

[farmaholic]

In my opinion atomjet granular side band are one of the better openers available !

I will mention mrb are not great in dry conditions !

What I didn't like about the AtomJet was the whole boot had to be thrown away or "rebuilt" compared to just the tip replacement of some other makes.

[Hamloc]

what soil type, moisture conditions in your area?

Our soil is black sandy loam with some stones. Topsoil depth would vary from 2-8 inches. Average yearly rainfall would vary from a low in 2017 of 4-5 inches to a high in a wet year of 18-20 inches, most years 10-13 is avg. so fairly dry. Ground is usually mellow in the spring and air drill makes fairly smooth furrows, doesn't come up in clumps like higher clay content soils.

[WiltonRanch]

My area anyone running c shank drills predominantly use stealth openers still. Old as dirt tech and can do a crap job if not used right but stand up better than anything else. Atom jets and Dutch would do a far better job but rocks destroy them and rebuilding an atom jet over replacing components on a stealth. It’s your call.

[biglentil]

Talk to Dutch! On my worry list #1 seed placement #2 seed placement #3 seed placement #4 seed placement #22 longevity

[helmsdale]

Running VW 3 1/4" single shoot points at the moment. As long as the carbide stays on, wear is phenomenal. If you blow the nose out of it, warranty is exceptional.

Drill came with bourgault knock on boots with 3" carbide points. Rocks absolutely devastated the bourgault points. Blew a half dozen or more right off the boot the last year we used them. Went to GEN boots and 3" low draft points after that and when we took the bourgault ones off, 1/3 to 1/2 of the points were heavily stress cracked and ready to blow off.

Gen boot stood up well. Seed placement became a concern in the 2nd year as the the carbide shoes blew off tripping over rocks and the wings wore off the outside of the point. Meant the seedrow wasn't flat and packers would ride up on the higher ground not carved out by the points meaning garbage pack jobs.

In my region, most double shoot options for a stealth style opener scare the shit out of me. Paired row options mean one hell of a rock digger down the middle and alot of soil bed being opened up and fractured. Dutch paired row opener had alot of appeal until the neighbor got a new 1830 rigged with it, and he's throwing them all into the scrap iron pile... Opener is good, but the body cannot withstand the abrasion up the front end and requires rebuilding and hard surfacing every spring if you want any sort of longevity. If your soil isn't as abrasive as this stuff, that opener would be very appealing to me.

The only product I can't punch the nutrients down in my rotation with the VW single shoot is yellow mustard. But floating ammonium sulfate with edge just before seeding means all that has to go down the hole is a nitrogen/phosphate mix.

Depending on your conditions and demands, obviously no single solution is perfect for everyone.
In no particular order my considerations are:
1)Longevity and wear resistance: My soil is HIGHLY abbrasive and riddled with large underground treasure.
2)Nutrient requirements: for many this may completely rule out a single shoot option. Highest i've gone so far is 102-38.5-0-12 on cereals which totalled ~400lb/ac of seed+fert, and 30-14-0-0 on mustard. Pretty sure thats pushing the top end on SS.
3)Moisture Preservation: I cannot afford to fracture the seedbed, or open up more ground than absolutely necessary.

On these three things, the VW point comes out the winner for me.

[Hamloc]

Let me narrow the question. Any yield difference between a single seed row or a paired row on 10 inch spacing?

[furrowtickler]

We had VW 3 1/2 in paired row openers for a few years but the wings continuously broke off . They did wear very little and soil disturbance was minimal for that size of opener. Went to the Dutch 3 in pairs row with the short beak. Have not broke a wing off in three years . But soil disturbance is higher and we have to slow down . Rougher field finish. But very durable. Not the best for seeding Canola unless below 4 mph.
We run twin row Alpine in the seed rows and liquid n/S down the center. Good for wheat / peas though. We just run on shank valley packers , again not the best set up for canola but it works

[fjlip]

Just single shoot here, BG 3" carbide, slim, low disturbance, looks like an arrow head. 14000 acres only lost Carbide tip on ONE opener. Enough rocks, still usable in 2018. Replaceable, expensive but zero issues. They make very similar double shoot too. You know they push mid row.

[MBgrower]

I moved to a disk drill many years ago, so out of touch with openers. Hasn't any company come up with a stone/rock guard for stealth openers? something to move the rock to the side so that the opener tip isn't shattered?

[Guest]

atom jet are phenomenal , we sent ours in for re hard banding at 10,000 ac , bill was only 1800. excellent service and seed placement is excellent
we have a single wing and double shoot , have gone as high as 300 lbs dry product on the side with no problem or damage
ground disturbance is very minimal at 1.5 in wide on 10" spacing
would not use anything else
plus they let you try them for a year , money back guarantee