Still can not understand ?

[enough]

I guess I stirred a lot of reaction from you farmers. What I do not understand is why you can not just up your price for your product? I had my car in for repair earlier last month and my mechanic had uped his shop labour by $6.00 a hour. He said it was to compensate for his expenses. I also received my heating bill for last month and found a new service charge for $1.50, it is to offset the loss the company is experiencing from last year.
Why then do farmers not join together and fight the system they are so mad at? Are farmers not from the old school of thought, it is time for them to be replaced by new methods and ideals.
Also for your information I am not a tree hugger but I do believe that this world would be better off without some of it's so called progress in certain areas.

[WoolyBear]

You first have to realize that the heating company CAN charge you more because they are likely the only provider of that service in your area. If you don't like it, you can still freeze. If your mechanic is any good, maybe he deserves it. For most other employees, they get a raise because of a union. Nothing to do with the quality of the work they do, or might do. They call it a cost of living allowance.

Farmers......... theres enough of us out here STILL, that if some of us want to get an extra buck, theres another group that won't join because either they think they can do better, AND there may be another group that think they can provide more of that product, at a lesser price, to the few groups <the Grocery Chains> that are buying.

The Grocery CHAINS and the big processors under the cover of CONSUMER DEMAND, are pitting one group of producers, against another, against another.

In a perfect world we would be payed for what our product is worth. I would be VERY happy if my share of a Sirloin roast was 25%, BUT its not. I guess what we would like is our fair share. If not, then we just might have to leave the farm, and look for jobs in the city. I am sure that many of us could do a lot of jobs now, for lets say........ $5/hr less than the current employee. Sounds like fair free market economy?

I for one think that the people in the city with a steady job should be happy with a cost of living increase ease year, we on the farm sure haven't had that!

[Junebug]

Farmers do not have the ability to profit margin. Which means demand the price you need or don't sell. We are growing a perishable product. When the product is finished it needs to be sold. the longer you keep it, the more it costs you and the more its quality deteroirates. If the demand for your product is good the day you need to sell, then you can maybe get a decent dollar. If it isn't you lose either way.(by keeping it longer or selling that day)
Think about this Enough and tell me how you feel.

When BSE was announced, the price of slaughter cattle dropped to $.50 per pound, yet because it was barbeque season the stores still continued to sell it to you for the same price as always. (with some minor sells on hamburger) The consumer got totally ripped off and so did the producer. While the packing plants needed dump trucks to carry all the money to the bank.
And another thing, All the millions of dollars the government is giving to the farmer to help with the crisis is just a policial game being play to ensure votes. I don't know of ANY producer in our area that has received even ONE dollar of aid. And some feed lots are still waiting to be paid for animals sold in August. How long would your creditors wait for you to pay if tomarrow your Employer cut your check by 75% but promised next month (or next month , or next month, or 8 months later)things would hopefully return to normal. Hopefully you could find another job with as much pay or MORE than what you had before the end of the month when all the bills come due.

[cakadu]

I'm glad you're asking enough and I welcome the chance to dialogue in this forum. If we can all get a better understanding of our interests surrounding agriculture - we will all be that much better off.

As an interested consumer/participant in the forum - how would you feel if you were charged more for your food? What amount would you see as fair if you knew that the money was getting back to the producer - not to the retailer or to the processor?

Given that less than 10% of an average family's disposable income is spent on food - what could you see yourself reasonably spending?

I can understand your wondering why we don't just all band together and I've often wondered that myself many times - on this very forum. We have gotten really good at working independently - partly through our own natures, but more specifically because that is how policy and business went. What producers have to do now is realize that we must become interdependent - but that requires change and an attitude shift and I'm sure you've encountered people who are unwilling or unable to change for whatever reasons there might be.

You have to remember (or realize) that producers make up less than 3% of the population - we don't exactly have the clout that we need to get something done.

Producers traditionally have not been marketers - they have been producers, which up until a few years ago worked. For the most part, we have organizations that are supposed to do the job for us and there are certainly others who are far more qualified than I to speak about the CWB. In recent years, the Canadian Wheat Board has been found to be less than adequate as a marketer by some, but there is no way we are going to get rid of the CWB because it is very firmly entrenched in the government bureaucracy. From what I understand, it has long since outserved it's usefulness, just like unions, but we are not going to get rid of it any time soon.

Consumers are very fickle creatures and we have many things available to us as consumers. People have done their marketing homework and asked what people would be willing to pay for particular items if they could get what they wanted, yet when it came time to paying these prices at the grocery store - their dollars spoke elsewhere.

I'm sure there are others who can join in and give you their understanding of why it is so hard to make a go of it as a producer. It isn't any one thing, but a huge complicated bunch of things.

I'm glad you're asking - keep the dialogue going because whether we like it or not, you are what the majority is thinking and we have to find a way to reach you and at least help you to understand.

[cowman]

I would also point out that if you can not ask more for your product then what can you do? For example, your mechanic? Now if no one came to him when he raised his price, what could he do? Continue to operate at a lower price? Well for how long? Until he got sick of not making any money and quit? Or just say well I need the extra $6 and if no one comes I'll quit? Either way he quits!
Which I would suggest is happening right now in agriculture? Only its taking quite a few years? Not very many young farmers today?
But have no fear there will always be someone there to provide the service or the food! There will be the Walmarts and Canadian Tires of the food business. Of course they will demand a certain profit level and the service might be not as good, but it probably will be cheaper...at least until they have a monopoly!

[Horse]

Well cowman you are what is wrong with agriculture today. Nothing personal but no one is willing to try change. If the french in Que can threten and get at least part of what they want why cant we I am willing to take a chance .The way I look at is if things dont get better I am going to go broke anyway so why not push it along. I had a very good neibor who said if trouble is coming you might just as well go meet it. At least if it dont work we can move on.

[cowman]

Well Horse, you are probably right. I'm old and worn out and just putting in my time. Walking the mile if you will. But I wish you all the best in revolutionizing the agricultural scene!
Please share how you will change things? I'm truly interested.

[15444]

A huge problem with creating a union for farmers in this country is that it would end up becoming another useless farming organization like CCA, CFA, OCA, OFA...and on and on and on the list goes. In order for the union to be of substantial value in getting producers the money they need to make a reasonable living, they would have to be able to control the movement of goods produced by farmers as well as the importation of products from out of the country.

An example of this would be that the union could block all foreign agriculture products that can be produced in this country. Imports would only be allowed after the product produced in this country is consumed. To handle the packers, the union would order them to lower their price gouging of the consumer and producer and only produce a marginal profit to keep equipment up to date and give decent salaries to workers. If the packer refused, the union orders every producer to withhold all product until their demands are met. Producers who refuse would be fined. How long do you think Lakeside could last with nothing to slaughter and a full line of workers?

Although no one will probably agree with my proposal as it borders on a slightly mild version of Communism {Communism - (noun): see CWB}, I feel that anything less would result in another one of those worthless bureaucratic institutions like CCA that do nothing for the producer but offer a UNIFIED VOICE for bitching and complaining to government. These organizations do not tell the public what life is like as a farmer or how they are getting screwed at the supermarket.

[bombay_43]

If I had total control of the food in the world, I would be the most powerful person here on earth! I don’t need guns, nuclear weapons, medicines, schools, gas or oil plants. All I need is control of all food, and I could control all the other things.

Would you kill?
Of course not.

Would you kill if you were hungry?
Probably not.

Would you kill if you were starving?
Maybe.

Would you kill if your children were starving?
Absolutely!

You would do what ever it took to feed them!

If someone like Saddam Hussein, or Adolf Hitler could have eliminate food production until what little was left, was controlled by him….talk about power! Wouldn’t terrorist groups hold all the cards if producers were forced to quit farming, and what little food that was left was controlled by them?

Who has the control of what farmers produce? Certainly not the primary producer. If we had the control, money to test products safety wouldn’t be an issue. We wouldn’t be discussing who would pay if we were making the profits. We wouldn’t worry that there would be no young farmers to take over tomorrow. Why were commodities that farmers produce even put on the stock market to allow investors to make profits? Aren’t the farmers the investors here?

How many farmer groups do you belong to? Pay into without holding any real power anyway? Think about it. CCA, ABP, barley growers association, canola growers, Wild Rose Agriculture producers, AHA, CSA, etc, etc…. (15444 named others)

Every time we producers are split into further groups, we have fewer voices representing us. We need one “United” voice, which amplifies the concerns of farmers! Value Chain made reference to becoming “organized”, as have several others throughout these threads. I think that all of us producers need to adopt an alternate way of thinking. We have always looked after ourselves, and as many of us believe, we will continue to do so. However, if we could stop for one moment to realize that everyone in agriculture do have one common denominator. We produce food. Be it beef, pork, poultry, dairy, honey, vegetables, fruits, etc. Somehow, the few that are left, need to speak out in support of each other.

I do not like Unions. Over time, they become too strong, and produce more of a “mafia” system than I like.(for lack of a better word)

However, many of you may be surprised to learn that Quebec has an agriculture producer union, called UPA. (L’Union des Producteurs Agricoles) It may also be of interest that the average age of a Quebec farmer is somewhere around 35 years old. That tells me that farming is quite profitable in Quebec thanks to their UPA. Maybe we need to take a lesson from them! One strong voice within a province, (or country) would be heard much clearer than many small ones all talking at once!

We have not heard too much in here from our Quebec farmers. Would love their opinions!

[cowman]

Bombay: I to would like to hear how the Quebec farmers do it. I've always found the French to be fiercely independent types with strong opinions! How do they come together to squeeze out a better deal for themselves? Not just their farmers but the whole province generally? Perhaps it is an attitude of "them" against "us"?
I wonder if the west could ever adopt this attitude? Western farmers and western provinces?

[ivbinconned]

Bombay: I would invite you to view in "Beef Production" the Sept 21st topic "Who will Pay", 83 posts long, where we had a good discussion about how different the Quebec situation is as compared to the west. I posted there the details about the "lavish" support Quebec had been getting while at the same time western producers were being lectured and told to focus there frustrations at all the other countries of the world.
One of the reasons the west is so divided historicly is because the messages that the west gets as compared to the east, and especally Quebec, from the media and political parties is often quite different.
Divide and conquer is the method. Federal departments like the CRTC, CBC and lap dogs like the GLOBE and Mail are the tools.
See my post of Stockwell Day,s. He accuratly describes the ugly way the system works.