Proposed Alliance/Pc party

[countryguy]

I was watching the national news the other night and there was a story about the plight to try to stop the merger.What I found interesting was a comment Steven Harper made.He said "I will not let some FARMER from Saskatchewan stop this merger," referring to David Orchard.

Now it sounds to me like Mr.Harper does not rank farmers very high on his list.I am somewhat dissapointed by this.I thought they were a party from the west,for the west.If they ever happened to get elected what could this mean for agriculture?

When you look at the whole political game right now you have one party (PC/Al) looking to gain momentum and pick up votes in the east and another party (Lib) looking for votes in the west.Maybe the party actually looking for votes in the west will do something for the west?

This for me is going to be a tough decision to make.As much as I have grown to DESPISE the Liberal party maybe we should give Paul a chance????

[cowman]

I hope Paul Martin is everything he claims to be. I truly believe he is our last hope.
In Alberta it is almost sacriledge to suggest voting for a liberal unless you live in Redmonton!
However we've been voting for a variety of Reform/Alliance clowns for quite a few years and what has it got us? The original Reform package was a good one but they have watered it down so much over the years that it is basically right back to what the PCs stood for. Of course the reason was to garner votes from the east but guess what...no one voted for them!
As far as I am concerned Alliance/Reform/Conservative are a bunch of losers who won't win anything! Oh they'll still get their seats in the west but I doubt anywhere else.
Paul Martin has a chance to save the country...I hope he's up to it.

[cakadu]

Interesting comments gentlemen. What does "saving the country" look like for you? Can you give some examples? I'm always interested in hearing what people's vision for the future looks like. There are many ways to point out what is wrong, what would make it look right?

The Australians have a saying about having Buckley's for hope - which after hearing the story, translates into slim and next to none. What would be needed to turn things around?

[rookie]

Possibly another 25 million people out west and the seats in office to go with them... until then, what would change tne current state of politics in Canada ?

[lonewolf]

I don't know guys. The reform/ alliance/ conservatives had better wake up and decide they are all on the same side and maybe there will be a chance that they might take their rightful place as government. I mean urban Canada is in a great position because of mulroneys Gst. cretien just sat back collected a big salary and let west fued over whether conservative or reform was better. Boy I think we will be paying for this dopes policies for a long time down the road.

[carebear300]

I don't know for sure all the things that should be done different but to start with somebody should put incomes of farmers back in synch with the rest of society. I know what Sask Power linemen made twenty years ago and I know what they make now. I wish that farmers were so fortunate and I don't know that they have to be guaranteed a set amount of dollars but should have a reasonable chance of making that kind of money. I do think if there is any justice in this country that the farmer that has three quarters of a million dollars invested should have some hope of obtaining that style of life. How you do that I really don't have any idea so guess shouldn't have said anything.

[cowman]

Saving the country: Time to get out my soapbox!
First of all we need a system that treats all provinces and territories equally. In rights and in finances. No more special deals for Quebec or the Ontario heartland. No more trade policy that sacrifices one region for the benifit of the others.
Next we need a country that is fiscally responsible. Not spending our hard earned money of silly ideas that come out of Toronto and Montreal...gun registry and Kyota.
Thirdly we need Ottawa to stop taking away provincial rights through the use of our own tax dollars...medi-care, education, social services.
And lastly we need a system where all Canadians get their chance to share in the wealth, not just the power elite in the golden triangle.
Probably a lot more things need to be done but I've listed some issues that if they don't change eventually we are out of here. The west really doesn't need Canada but Canada does need the west! We're getting tired of paying the bills while being treated like a simple cousin!

[StrawBoss]

We live in a democratic country and the majority will always rule.
There is the same problem in all democratic countries where the population is not evenly spread out.

One solution to the east / west problems, is each province should have the same number of seats in the federal government and maybe move the offices to a more central location. ( like in Manitoba )

Also have an elected senate and no politician to run for more than two terms. That would eliminate the political buddy system.

No donations from large corporations, unions or lobby groups this would make the playing field more even across the country. A reasonable and equal amount of tax dollars to be used by each politician for election campaigning.

Threats to separate should never be considered in a democratic country. We joined confederation because we couldn’t stand alone, so why start tearing it apart now. I don’t think we should threaten each other like a bunch of warlords.

[cowman]

Strawboss: I guess my main problem with your definition of democracy is the statement "majority will always rule". You sort of forgot the part about the rights and protection of the minority?
Thus you have Alberta that has been used as a cash cow for the "majority"?
Thus you have a situation like the NEP which legally stold $100 billion of Albertas resources! And incidently gave $100 billion to Quebec. Now this is fair? Has anything really changed? Will Kyota do the same thing?
This type of unfairness is what must change if this country will be saved. There has to come a time when we need to ask ourselves "Why are we here? What's in it for us?"
The Alberta Agenda is the first step in our divorce from Canada!

[countryguy]

StrawBoss,everything you said is right on the money,except the last paragraph.

My feeling is that Canada would benefit greatly from an American style political system.That way every part of Canada would be represented equally on top of every person being represented.Representing just people leads to the catering of the highly populated areas leaving the rest of the country out in the dark.

A two term leader would also be nice as it would be tougher for the dictatorship we are now just getting rid of to form.

When you really think about it politics in Canada is all about money for the elected officials.It's a simple game here.Cater to the most highly populated areas for two terms and voila,you just won the lottery!

[StrawBoss]

I am trying to suggest ways that I think would partly rectify the east / west problems, just coffee shop talk.

Each province should have the same number of representatives in parliament.

All elected politicians in parliament have the right to vote by secret ballot on important issues to eliminate intimidation by party leaders.

Nonpolitical committee to determine the politician’s wages and pensions

One police force across Canada, and paid by the federal government with laws that have no boundaries.

All Canadians have a chance to vote on important issues, like gun control, Kyoto and capital punishment, and if the vote shows a good majority then it becomes law, not just a recommendation for the government to consider.

Yes we should look at the past, but also try and understand that the federal government has the duty to provide services to all people, so they rob the rich and give to the poor. I know---- I know --- they waste our money due to poor management and corruption.

I said, the majority will always rule in a democratic country and yes we all have the same rights and that’s in our constitution. Let us not mistake rights with financial equality, because the rights are given to us and we have to work to be equal.

Quebec is trying to separate for all the wrong reasons ( trying to become little France ) because it doesn’t make economic sense.

[cowman]

Democracy without rights to the minority is mob rule...the very worst sort of government.
If all the provinces had an equal number of votes what would change? How would this protect Albertas rights?
If a majority of the people made the law why wouldn't they all vote to share the oil and gas that Alberta has? Would this be fair?
Our provinces have let the federal government take away a lot of our rights! Consider Quebec...they have stood up for their rights under the constitution. Why haven't our provincial politicians done the same? We need to be a confederation of ten equal states with the federal government only taking care of those things that are in the national interest. Ten little Quebecs if you will! The days of one or two provinces paying the freight for the rest has to end.
Financially the west would be better off in a seperate country. Ottawa is not our freind, they are our enemy! We will never be free until we throw off our shackles! Just like the USA did when the British were oppressing them?

[ivbinconned]

The oligarchy that never changes.
King Jean to King Paul -- nothing has changed. The Liberal party, ruling from Ottawa, Québec and Ontario, has once again achieved a smooth transition to perpetuate its power for another 20 years. Mr. Martin's Western glances and soothing words are window dressing of the same kind as given by Trudeau, Mulroney, and the current prime minister when each of them was developing their power base. All promises to the West are meaningless promises like pie crusts, made to be broken.
The sad thing for Mr. Harper will be the belated realization that being from Toronto, as he always prided himself, isn't good enough. He will go the way of Preston Manning, Stockwell Day , and all Western leaders. Mike Harris will soon become the new Conservative leader of Canada. Once more of those stupid Westerners have been taught a lesson: Don't get boisterous. Pay your taxes. Listen to your elders in Ottawa, and don't expect to have a voice where it really counts.
In this way, is completed the same cycle as the Progressive Movement went through in the 1920s. They rose in the West, failed in Ontario, and were merged into the larger mass of Ontario provincial power. They became the Progressive Conservative party, with which the Alliance is about to amalgamate. Notwithstanding the fact that the Alliance is larger numbers and more successful in Western Canada, it will submit to the demands of the smaller Progressive Conservative party because if it doesn't it will not succeed in Ontario, much less than Québec.
From Western grievance movement to Central Canadian political party, submitting to the Central Canadian leader. The pattern is all-too-familiar. The Reform/Alliance has repeated the same cycle and become meaningless. Western Canadians everywhere feel betrayed. All their money, time, efforts, hopes, prayers, democratic actions and wonderful sacrifice and dedication, just to end up back where they started from in the same old Ontario-dominated Conservative party of Canada.
What a waste of time for Preston Manning, Stockwell Day, and Stephen Harper. What a waste of time for all their wonderful loyal supporters. What a waste of time for Western Canadian resources. And still their pride will not allow them to admit it.
Mr. Harper will soon realize he was sucked into quicksand. To mix metaphors, he assumed to be like the fox who hit the tar baby and stuck to a disaster. And his attempt to swallow the Conservative party will result in him being swallowed. You can imagine my mixture of amusement, pity, and desperation.
Why oh why, my friends, does Western ignorance and stupidity have to repeat the same mistakes time after time? Is Ottawa so rich, are federal jobs so sweet, is the attention of Eastern media so precious, that we should sell our souls and surrender our life and liberty for their foul promises?
The solution
The solution is not difficult. It is not as difficult and dangerous as surrender to the status quo. The solution is not illegal. It was ratified both by the Supreme Court of Canada and by the Parliament to Canada in the Clarity Act. It involves no risk to life, liberty, or property. In fact to abandon the solution will surrender all three of those precious commodities. It will make you richer in spirit then you have ever imagined before. It will give meaning to your life.
It will empower you as never before, to create a whole new social order. It will give scope to your highest and most generous instincts. It will give the most precious gift you could leave as a legacy to your children. It will challenge all your skills of communication, education, dedication, and moral courage. It will put an end to your despair. It will create a hope for you and your friends and neighbors even as you take your first step to achieve it. It is the right of every sovereign people on the face of the earth to achieve their self government.
The solution is the referendum for independence in each province to achieve their creation of a whole new nation. This solution is the only possible way to achieve our own legislative structure with a Triple E Senate, from the beginning. This is the only practical solution to our present problems. It is far easier to build a new foundation and the nation upon it, then to try and heft the whole structure of the nation upon our shoulders and while we hold aloft put underneath it a new foundation which is supposed to fit the building that existed.
In 136 years of Confederation, not one thing has changed in the foundation, which gave all the political power to two provinces, Ontario and Québec. They together elected a prime minister.
He chose every cabinet minister, every judge, every head of every commission, the Chief Justice of Canada , the governor general, the commander-in-chief of the Canadian Armed Forces, the head of the RCMP, the head of the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, to spy on each of us domestically, and and he personally awarded all the contracts and controlled all the licenses of the media of communication. In addition he appointed every Lieutenant Governor of every province. And the head of the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal to control every aspect of communication which might be politically sensitive to the Liberal party.
In effect the prime minister has been the absolute dictator of Canada. He has always been from Ontario or Québec with very few exceptions. In the only way this fundamental injustice and flawed system can be changed is by this lawful democratic referendum in each and every province of Western Canada for separation.
We have exactly such a petition on our web site. Anyone who thinks the creation of a small provincial political party would solve any problem whatsoever is wasting their time just like Stephen Harper, Preston Manning, Stockwell Day and John Diefenbaker. All of them tried and failed to make a difference in Ottawa.
Soon Ottawa will try again to steal Alberta oil. Let's not deceive ourselves: they need the West's resources, far more than the West needs their incompetent corrupt government. Although the referendum idea was created to stifle Québec separatism, it has created the one and only lawful remedy for Western Canadian grievances. We are the one group of people who has the solution and have always maintained it truthfully, openly and honestly.
The solution is simply to achieve by referendum our own legislative authority to control our destiny, to create a Triple E Senate from the beginning, rather than fix the foundation on the rotting nation of Canada. Leave Canada we must, and we will achieve this or live forever in the backyard of Canada, being a source of tax wealth and a dumping ground for failed Liberal politicians and party hacks to rule and regulate our lives from the cradle to the grave. The one thing today that makes for a successful government official is the ability to lie with apparent sincerity. This devious qualification has left us a leadership of deception.
Let's begin today by the conscientious effort of building for the referendum, the lawful process of our democratic liberation. If we fail in this, our life and liberty will be slowly drained away. We owe it to ourselves, to God, to history, to our culture and heritage, to do all in our power to preserve our land for future generations of our own people. By this dedication we will create a better world, at least where we live.
Here in our land, our freedom is being eroded daily as people are put in jail for their ideas and what they think. What fools we would be to let this situation continue when we have a lawful peaceful means to put an end it and govern ourselves.
The Canadian alliance has surrendered its purpose.
The central Canadian Mafia have won again! The Ontario board of Stephen Harper has surrendered the Western upstart rebel party to the upper Canada compact which has ruled Canada since 1867. “The West wants in” has become “the West, sucked in.”
Anyone with a knowledge of history will not miss the delicious irony of the change of the name of the Progressive Conservative party to the Conservative party. The Progressives you may recall were the upstart Western grassroots movement drawing much of its support from rural Alberta in the `20s and `30s of the last century. Being unable to penetrate the solid wall of conservative liberal monopoly on power in upper Canada, the Western farmers decided to amalgamate for power with the Ontario conservatives.
As a token, (i.e. a worthless bauble) of appreciation, the Conservatives change the name to the Progressive Conservatives. This meaningless gesture was enough to suck in the Western farmers to the Ontario-dominated Conservative party. Thereafter business was as usual.
The province of Ontario ruled the country again, as if by divine right. Now that token of victory for the West, that worthless name “Progressive” is being reversed and the new party to which the Reform Alliance has surrendered even its name, is simply going to be called the Conservative party once again. So much for “the West wants in.” So much for Preston Manning and his vision of reform through participation.
Always the 103 seats from Ontario (out of a total of 301 in the country in the House of Commons) rules. The West with 88 seats is as usual, irrelevant. When the West voted as a block for the Alliance at least then Ontario did not have direct control over Western members of Parliament.
But really Preston Manning, Stockwell Day, and Stephen Harper were simply enablers. They have been, are, and will be amply rewarded for misleading the people of Western Canada that reform was possible through participation in the federal system. They knew or ought to have known that reform was never possible. They have deceived Western Canadians for over 15 years.
This is not a major accomplishment when you realize that Western Canadians wanted to be deceived. If they're not deceived they have to do something about it. Separation is a frightening responsibility. Just like leaving a bad marriage. You may have to stand on your own. You cannot blame anybody else anymore for your unhappiness. And you may have to start pulling your own weight.
Nevertheless you will be independent and free of an oppressive and exploitative force. Rather than take this honorable course, they, the leaders of the Reform Alliance, chose to become Ottawa's representatives in the West, take the pensions, and become part of the problem.
If Canada wasn't so destructive to freedoms, so costly in taxes, so exploitative in regulations, so subversive of our culture, the treachery and betrayal of our political leaders would at least be bearable. However, in a brief time our culture will have been destroyed, our language will be marginalized, the government will have regulated us into silent oblivion, our wealth and property will have been destroyed, and our freedoms eliminated.
Those who counseled pacifism in the face of oppression are not our friends. Moderation and tolerance of corruption is no virtue and extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. Sometimes it is the harsh truth teller who is your best friend.
There are many liars to say Canada is the best country in the world. Once upon a time it was. Canada will do as it has under GST Mulroney, golf course John, and Steamboat captain Paul Martin [or his puppet master Maurice Strong]. It will **** and pillage the West and its citizens to feed the voters of Ontario. As you can see these facts are not even hidden from modern scrutiny to anyone who reads the newspapers. The following article contains a survey of public opinion which reveals the winning formula.
Senate reform dead in central Canada
This was the headline in the Times Colonist of October 29th 2003 on a page A6 article. This refers to a survey funded by the federal government in the body called “Center for Research on Information on Canada”. Even the title is deadly boring. Typical of Canada really. The Center reached an obvious conclusion. “Western people want Senate Reform to boost their clout but Ontarians and Quebecers are more content with the fact of the power they wield in Canada and are far less enthusiastic about changes to the upper chamber”.
Surprise surprise! The clever analysts of the survey of Mr. Parkin surmises that the West could be bought off with less than actual Senate reform if only some diversion could be put in front of the people to suggest that they focus on something less. We are apparently dealing with two-year-old kindergarten pupils. Just give them a diversion and promise them something else. Their attention span is so limited that they will never insist on the important change that will really make a difference. Sadly this has been too often true of Western Canadians.
Another interesting observation from the survey was the information that 54 percent of those in British Columbia, Alberta, and Manitoba consider Senate reform a priority. The story confused the issue by suggesting that the survey implied it was merely a matter of changing the numbers of representatives in the upper house which was desired. Once again confusion is the solution for important demands for change. Obviously that was a gross oversimplification and/or a deliberate misrepresentation of the Triple E Senate.
Another surprise! The Ontario response sees Senate reform as a priority for only 30 percent of those surveyed from those provinces. However asked if their province, Ontario, gets treated with respect it deserves, 74 percent from Ontario said yes. 42 percent from Québec said yes. The results in British Columbia? 65 percent said no, Ottawa does not give a fair share.
In Saskatchewan it was an amazing 72 percent who felt unfairly treated by the federal systems. But now comes the even more amazing conclusion: Politically, Senate reform is dead, says the author of the survey. Why? Because Ontario doesn't want change! Québec doesn't want change!
So what are we to do? Surrender ourselves with the new/old conservative party? Surprisingly this seems to be the direction of many Western Canadians today. We are indeed an immature lot. Anything but take responsibility for ourselves and do the right thing. Senate reform is dead but let's pretend it isn't. Let's send some more bright young men to Ottawa, or more likely in the current politically correct atmosphere some more women.
By this amazing means of self-deception, Western Canadians have frittered away the last 25 years, from 1980 when separatism first became a major force. They have bought the Reform Party for awhile. Then that failed and Preston managed to convince us to change the name to the United Alliance. When that failed we surrendered altogether to the Conservative party of Ontario and gave up on the idea of significant reform. Thus was wasted 25 years of some people's lives.
Our plan in Western Canada Concept is to stay the course. If all the people were deceived into jumping over Niagara Falls that does not mean that we should join them. Our only hope is to maintain the integrity of the one true solution for Western Canada being the formation of the new nation with a proper political foundation from the beginning, and culture which will reflect our best interests.
We can have our own foreign policy separate and distinct from the disaster that Ottawa has created. We can have our own immigration policy reflecting our best interests. We can preserve our language and culture. We can develop our own natural resources, oil, natural gas, fresh water, fishery, mining, and agriculture resources in ways best suited to our needs. Unless and until we do so, our destiny will be in the hands of Ontario and Québec whose interests are vastly different than our own.
Every province has the legal right to self-determination by referendum. Our goal is to campaign for the referendum in each province through a petition to the premier of each province, which we have articulated on our web site. To do this we need you to become a campaigner for the great cause of Western Canadian liberation.
Never before has the option of independence been available by peaceful democratic means. Never before has a goal so rich in promise been available for such a low price. You have a place in such a movement.
We believe in referendum, initiative, and recall. Decisions on foreign aid, foreign military involvements short of the declaration of war, and the vast tax burdens they place upon people, can be controlled by instituting budgetary restraints imposed not by politicians who often have a vested interest in those expenditures, but by referendum , requiring popular support for any such wasteful spending. Keep in mind that with the present Canadian parliamentary system such wise and necessary checks and balances are impossible because constitutional amendments are frustrated by the existing political structure. We will never have anything close to true democracy in Canada as it stands.

Yours for Independence,

Douglas Christie

[StrawBoss]

After reading some of the comments I checked my land location this morning to make sure I lived in Alberta Canada and looked out the window for a double check.
If the definition of democracy is mob rule and taking away the rights of individuals, then maybe I went to the wrong school. It is good that we can make these kind of comments and not get shot or jailed.

Maybe some of us should travel to countries run by warlords to learn the true meaning of democracy.

[cakadu]

StrawBoss, I like your last comment because sometimes we tend to forget how good we actually have it compared to others in the world. We talk so much about globalization, but it is from our perspective and how we can make something for ourselves. I'm not so sure how many of us look at it from the point of view of giving someone else a hand-up.

We also have full bellies at night (at least for the most part we do) and don't spend 75% of our waking hours trying to find the one meal of the day that may or may not be anything beyond subsistence.

We have a roof over our heads, some people have pieces of tin that they have been able to salvage, or old tents, or something that we just couldn't fathom living in.

I realize that we have homeless and hungry in this country and that the numbers are growing at an alarming rate - particularly where children are concerned.

I'm not sure that there are many of us who know what it is like to go to bed hungry, not have access to basic necessities etc. Sometimes I really think instead of grumbling, we should be grateful that we can walk out our doors and not have to worry about this being the last time we can do it because a bomb, sniper, or missle has taken us out. We should be hugging our kids at night and telling those that we love our feelings.

Grumbling isn't really a solution. What are some solutions?