30 months?

[grassfarmer]

Great news the border has opened but can anybody tell me how the cattle under 30 months are to be identified? We did the same in the UK and aged them by their teeth initially but this proved wildly inaccurate and eventually we had to introduce individual ID's - the forerunners of the passport system.
Some cattle lost their calf teeth as early as 13 months if they were treated tough yet we had a 42 month old cull that still had her "calf teeth".

[ALICIA]

Are you from england. I just have to look at a animal and I can tell if its under 3 yrs old.

[grassfarmer]

Alicia, But can you tell if it's 29 months or 33 months old ? Hardly what we would call a tracability system to reassure customers in any case.

[pandiana]

Very good question! Do you have to record birthdates now when selling feeder cattle?

[jensend]

I'm sure we will have to in the not-too-distant future. I think RFID tags will be worth the investment down the road, especially if the more intensive testing were to turn up more cases of BSE. I'm sure most people read about the suspected vCJD case in New Zealand recently. I think traceback capabilities will become more important and the ability to positively prove ID and histories will be mandatory.

[ALICIA]

I would say that this would put a end to ever tom dick and harry getting into farming.
Get rid of all the grade cattle. Prebreed breeder tattoo there cattle with the proper letter for the year and the number born this could be changed to date Ali- Breeder or herd
01N-Jan.2003
This would put a stop to missing tags
Missing ears would be a lot harder to loose.

[ValueChainFX]

Trace back is going to be a very important tool without a doubt. The tattoo seems to have worked in some cases, but would be very hard in the plant! RF tags would be probably the best in the long run and the easiest for the producer to use when it comes to information. The cost of these tags is still high, but if the cost is spread across the system, it shouldn't cost the producer anymore than the present system. Since we now know that the whole system needs this trace back, why should the producer carry all the cost?

Also if we do go to the RF tag system (my understanding is it is being tested with CCIA) it would be nice if the producer could get information back on what he has put through the system.

Your thoughts?

[kato]

We have tattooed all of our cows for years now. They are not purebred, but it is a good backup in case of a lost tag.

As of now, people exporting isowean pigs are tattooing them. The tattoos are checked at the border. It works well for them. The only difference is that they are tattooed with a letter for the week of the year (due to their short life spans) It is not impossible to adjust our lettering system to differentiate by the month, instead of the year.

If needed, this would work for export cattle. It would be a quick way to get the live cattle verified at the border. Low tech. Only takes a minute to put a tattoo in. We don't have to wait for technology, and once you buy the tattoo kit, and apply for your individual farm letters, then it only costs a bit of ink. In the long run, it's a lot cheaper. It's a great traceback tool, as well.

Just a thought.

[grassfarmer]

Seems to me suggesting tattooing calves on bigger operations would make tagging look like a good alternative. Logically buyers of feeder cattle might want proof that that poor doing steer is less than 25 months old in the ring although he only weighs 800lbs. The number of these type of cattle around was surprisingly high in the UK once they introduced full individual IDs. I think we need to go to electronic tags probably with a conventional tag in the other ear in case of loss. I once saw a demonstration of an auction market with an overhead reader installed in an alley so that every animal entering the market had it's data automatically read and transferred onto the computer. Most impressive!

[kato]

Tattoing is best at birth. I will agree with that.

The cost is going to have to come down on the electronic ID tags as well. It would sure be nice if they were more affordable.

To have a scanner on the chute at home, and have data fed into a palm pilot automatically to be downloaded into the software program on the computer is a dream of mine.

Anyone working on such a thing?

[jensend]

We expect that is about where we will end up. I think within two years we will have the electronic scale under the squeeze, RF tags and scanner. I would expect to use a conventional tag as well for use in the pasture for matching up pairs or just noting an animal and knowing who it is. I am sure ranchers and farmers will be toting a lot more laptops around in a couple of years. If we can use the information for management purposes it will all be worthwhile and I would estimate will use about five days a year in extra time spent.

[rusty1]

Boy, seems tatooing is a step back in time. Unless that process is alot faster, cleaner, and simpler than it was when I did it a long time ago. We were sure glad to throw that thing away. If we are going to take leadership in the world of food safety and traceability we'll have to go with RFID. And I hope Canada is 100% down that trail by calving season of 2004.

I have followed closely that technology for the past 6 years. The tools are in hand and the costs are insignifcant in relation to the benefits. We have done alot of feedlot demo's with RFID tools. The benefits on Individual Animal Managment can range as high as $75.00 CDN.

With current tags cost at $2.00 the cost is no longer an issue. We were approached by a leading tag manufacturer to sell their tags at just a bit over that price. That deal is not complete yet.

We have a calving program that runs on various PDA's and syncronizes with you PC. and reads RFID tags right into the hand held device. It even holds the complete Veterinary Compendium for your health needs.

The calving program also has a seemless interface to the feedlot module so production records can be carried along with the calf.

We have scanners to suit your needs and scale systems for your chute that auto sorts gates. (PS - jensend - we sure don't advise a scale under your chute, been there done that)

Just a synopsis on Individual Animal Managment - we have found 4 types of animals in any given pen of feeders.
1. Super gainers, gaining 5 - 7 Lbs. ADG
2. Pen Average - ( we feed and manage our herd based on the "Flaw of Averages")
3. Ner-do-wells - they just never should have been born - they can't make you any money and never will.
4. Social Mis-fits that are at the bottom end of the pecking order and don't charge the bunk. Separate them and give them some space and they may be super gainers.

Our system will give us ADG chute side, and "Predicted Week to Ship". With a proper process we will calculate a calfs "BEADG"
Break Even Average Daily Gain in very short order, and if he is not breaking even then send it back to the cowboy that raised it.

[pandiana]

I agree with rusty, tattooing is not all that easy or reliable. Our cows are all tattooed. Some problems are:

A surprising number of these are unreadable over time.
If you calve in winter, tattooing is a poor option as paste on ears makes them prone to freezing.
You would probably need a conventional tag as well for easy identification.
There is only so much room in a calf's ear available. If you need farm id and birthdate, it could be a tough job to keep it readable.

I think tattooing is still a good backup for a valuable cow (if such a thing exists these days), but not enough.

The problem I have with this whole concept is what happens on large herds that may have cows that calve on their own and therefore have no good record of birthdates.

What is an RF or RFID tag?

[ValueChainFX]

RF = Radio Frequency

These tags will probably be the choice in the future for anyone that is planning on shipping animals, keeping worry free records and wants feedback from farm to fork.

The technology is getting stronger all the time and easier to work with. The cost keeps getting lower and the new regulations are getting closer. I am always interested in feedback on systems folks are useing right now.

The key to any system is going to be that systems ability to track product through the packing plant. This is the place most systems will let us down. There are some wonderful systems out at the moment that provide excellent information. Does anyone use a system now and care to share a name or two with us (maybe with a website link)

http://www.viewtrak.com/

[jensend]

rusty1: which equipment do you handle and what exactly is your program? We know we will have to upgrade our info (from Cowchip$) but for the next year or so at least I see things being in such a state of flux that any big leap could be off the mark and then we can spend some more getting with the industry standard.