EID Readers

[grassfarmer]

So what's happening with EID readers at Canadian
auctions? I haven't heard much of late.
I found these two movies on Youtube showing cattle
being read through a Scottish auction in a trial and
sheep going through a large auction sale with reader.
Not much hold up causing an "impediment to
commerce" as far as I can see.
In the UK they are late comers to using EID tags
relative to Canada - so why have we not got readers
in the auctions yet?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mNQr1zgg1M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51Xz4eqm_00

[ALLFARMER]

Because nobody wants to pay for it. Not gov, not
marts, not producers, not consumer. If the marts
start charging yet another fee more cattle will get
sold privately.

As with most things in life....it's about the money.

[SADIE]

Back from a week in the sun. Cuba. No phone and no computer.

Top of the Threads: One of my favorite topics grassfarmer.

I am copying this from the Saskatchewan Cattleman's Association report before I throw their book in the garbage. But finally it appears there is some common sense starting to take place in this whole RFID eartag reading situation.

PAT HAYES, SASKATCHEWAN CCA REP. CCA representative to the CCIA board of directors.

AFTER THE TRACEABILITY SUMMIT IN SASKATOON IN SEPT of 2011, SOME OF THE KEY ISSUES WERE:

--we believe that the best place for first read of CCIA tags was at induction to feedlots, not in and out of auction markets, assembly yards or order buyers.

WOW maybe all this discussion on agriville and continual problems of retention of these RFID eartags is starting to bring some CS into this system.

Closing arguments in the tribunal hearing June 15, 2010 was to start the RFID application when the animals are sold in auction or when arrival at feedlot to bring potential slippage to close to "O" level.

[Happytrails]

I've got pictures on my phone of panel readers at a cattle auction barn in Feilding, NZ. Sorry but I'm too old and dumb to put them up here.

Anyway they had 2 panels on each side of an alley leading out of the sale ring. Alley looked to be about 4' wide. The operators said they were getting readings from about 90% of the cattle thru the alley. Their weather is some better than ours so I doubt we would be that good. Add that to the fact that the data collected would be almost useless it is an easy decision (for me). Pay the brand inspectors and save the equipment and labor expense needed to read EID tags at auction markets.

[wd40]

I cut some ey teeth on the bleeding edge of RFID in 1998 and beyond. Saw a system that ran a telephone cable around every compartment on a "pot". All you had to do was hook up the reader to the plug-in and read eery tag in the compartment.
Same thing was installed around the perameter of an auction ring.

But too many of our beef industry "ex-sperst" were on a tag companies had outs.

[grassfarmer]

I'm not a technology fan at all but since we have been
putting the EIDS on for a decade we may as well start
using them.
SADIE reckons we need to move the problem beyond
farm gate to feedlot arrival - why not just move it to
slaughter plant arrival? or abolish it altogether which
is your real aim - then we can proudly boast of
having a zero traceability system to compete with
other world beef exporting nations.

HT likes brands but this iconic cowboy image does
not reflect the reality. I read a figure recently of the %
of CDN cattle that are branded and it amazed me how
low it was - I think in the 30% region?
Did you watch the "sheep eater" video HT? 25,000
sheep read in a 2 day sale with 99.2% accuracy.
Wouldn't be hard to build the race set-up to read
cattle the same way.

When you see that cattle example shown in the video
the technology is clearly here now that would work in
our system. Reading into the ring, in the ring and out
of the ring would allow for order buyers splitting off
cattle in the ring. The databases to run this system
would allow us to do so much more than we do now
particularly in the field of movement tracking which is
essential in the face of livestock disease outbreak.
The traceability element showing herd of origin would
be combined with movements and also tie in proof of
ownership.
To use $3 EID tags and not utilise any of the potential
benefits they bring seems crazy. It's like buying a
smart phone and then only using the regular phone
feature on it - why spend the money if you aren't
going to use it?

[chaser]

Hi guys how many producers are age verifying calves? i think alot are not being done. At auction doiesnt seem to matter if done or not.

[SADIE]

SADIE reckons we need to move the problem beyond
farm gate to feedlot arrival - why not just move it to
slaughter plant arrival? or abolish it altogether which
is your real aim - then we can proudly boast of
having a zero traceability system to compete with
other world beef exporting nations.

I copied and pasted your exact words grassy on this thread. First of all I believe that I was always one to try something new in the bovine and equine industry. As a practicing veterinarian and diadnostician that had a great large animal bovine beef cow-calf and backgrounding practice for 20 years I had leading clientelle that would come in the clinic each spring and fall and offer me "their herd" as real trials on many new products, and equipment that pharmaceutical companies kept introducing to the industry.

Vaccination protocal for Bovine Respiratory disease was turned down at the University levels because there was not enough clinical trials and data yet my clientelle came in with their 500 calf herd or 1500 calf herd or 100 and said that they would be willing to try it. This is what happened and soon this evolved into what many producers are doing and being recommended to to this day.

Some products didn't work and were pulled off the shelf. Some products that did work for some and not for someone else in another province had some or all of that product totally removed.

As a cow-calf operator since 1990 with my herd on shares and now a full operator since 1996 I am now a producer like all of you appear to be on agriville.

The traceability project came along right after the quality starts here program. Our farm was one of the first 10 to do the quality starts here. The thought of the RFID Button I went to immediately because of the problem already showing up with the dangle tag which has been a problem with all dangle tags through the 70s, 80s 90s.

RFID button---the answer. Secondly I am in Saskatchewan and needed the use of PFRA pastures. Now I know why the problems with the RFID retention, the BUTTON COPS--"POLICEMEN" and the monetary fines appeared to be a problem in Saskatchewan.

Why when the animals had their tags in place at one point in time and then show up and buttons were missing without a ripped ear in the adult animals????

Agriville knows the rest of the story.

When I tried to go for help and talk about the problem with retention the lies from all segments of the cattlemen groups, The CCIA bullshit, The CCA bullshit, The SCA bullshit.

SInce out training going through Veterinary school there appears to be variances in most diagnostics and treatments. We were taught not to hide from it but get it out in the open and discuss it. Find solutions to the problem.

I proceeded to do that the only avenue left for me. Challange it at a tribunal hearing.

AT a hearing there is Closing Arguments when the defence can put on record suggestions to improve the system and go forward.

That was done back in 2010. Pastures of Intermingling when the same dams come back home to premise of origin and again back to the same pasture year after year-----why do something that is meaningless. Takeout date in October there is already more tags missing especially in the older animals. These animals are well identified by Brand and other ID dangle or Brisket tag and many have Ketchum tags curloc #2 in as well.

CS---Commons sense if allowed to prevail could have had the RFID applied going to market or some clients in Alberta I know have it done at the market (set it up with auction market) so there is fresh tags, fresh hole and 0 slippage. Cull cows could easily be CCIA---CULL COW IN AUCTION---RFID applied.

Ignorance prevailed for the time being from the CCIA, CCA, SCA, Government personnel. More bullshit stories from the same groups, same propaganda of keep following me down this road. Wand readers needed, Premise ID. Age Verification, Next came retiring the lost tags and cross reference the new applied tag to the one that is lost bullshit.

Until the whole RFID tag system is abolished and another application proceedure is researched under Canadian conditions for a series of at least 4-5 years in the field I will remain my position into perpetuity.

techology at veterinary conferences have stated that there is a chip available, and can be placed without migration in the animal, cost is much much less to the producer.

Last JULY our provincial ag minister announces taxpayers $$$ $25,000.00 into retention problems with these current tags. Who does the trials the same overseers that can set up any trial and parameters they want to get desired results when it is now revealed these tags were nothing but a bullshit FEEDLOT TAG. Let it start in a FEEDLOT then.

Constant retagging adult animals----now recognized at veterinary seminars as an animal welfare concern. OH cattle groups cannot talk about that.

The system is broken. If some producers want to keep going down this path---good for them. Voluntary system is fine.

Some producers use scour vaccine, some don't. It is close to calving time. I like trivetrin or borgal and the calf span to young calves at a few days of age before turn out---others don't, I ring my bull calves at 3 days of age others do something else.

I refuse to purchase a reader even if there is funding from the government it doesn't increase my bottom line.

I will not give this province Premise ID because of the "no trust in those that are pushing the program'.

I will keep a cow-herd till I am damn old so that I can keep writing comments about my stand on agriville also.

[ALLFARMER]

I think I need to go to Cuba too! Sadie has been
recharged!!!

O well put the blade on the cat today and started
cleaning out around my bins preparing for the
delivery of alfalfa pellets.

I don't scour guard vaccinate my cows. I am to
cheap/lazy for that....guess I'll call it holistic. I also
wouldn't bother buying a tag reader. Same reason
I am to cheap/lazy.

This farm uses kiss really it's the way to go. Keep
it simple stupid.

[15444]

GF, the cattle video refers to UHF tags, not RF. That is the problem right there.

Also, 6 animals are easy to read. Try running a pot of 4-weights through a alley reader and you'll be doing good with a read rate of 90%.

As far as the tags, keeping track of them is a joke and can get pretty scary for some people when the real cops start calling:

Recently neighbor got a phone call. Cop from Southern Ontario. Neighbour is N. Ontario. 24 hours away.
Cop says, found one of your animals. Been butchered on the edge of a highway and the guts, hide, head and legs are left here to clean up. So come clean it up before I have a judge issue a warrant for your arrest. Little gray-haired farmer is scared shitless.

Neighbour phones around and gets the local cattle rep/lady to handle the issue. Cattle rep talks to cop. Cop has phoned almost 100 people in regards to the animal, including an uncle who owned it as a backgrounder. Rep tells cop that cattle move all over the country and tracing who is responsible is almost impossible. Cop couldn't believe that people actually truck cattle across the country. She goes to work each day and sees lots of cows, "don't we have enough already here?".

Eventually cop gives up on investigation.

But gives you an idea of how this stuff can escalate quickly.

[SADIE]

Allfarmer---You are right. After the heavy but exciting work in Dec & Jan getting the word out across Saskatchewan about a Pasture Patron meeting in Saskatoon that was very successfull on Jan 23 2013 some people were able to escape for a 1 week rest.

Heifers are bagging up so just came in from the morning check.

15455---you are correct. In the last 4 years and through all this RFID, Scanning, unknown laws, fine threats many of my neighbors that were in the cattle business just threw up their hands and left the business. Past chairman of the CCIA were on the news giving FALSE PROPAGANDA statements regarding the RFID eartag. Back in 2009 & 2010 many were PFRA pasture patrons. that just threw up their hands and said "THE COWS ARE GOING DOWN THE ROAD". There comments were "WHAT THE FXXX is coming next". Scanning and retagging every time we move the cattle around. FINES now. What Button Gestapo will be stopping trucks and looking in to see if tags are missing in my animals in the trailer??

The history for those of us in PFRA pastures were you got into a pasture with a 10 head allotment. Kept applying each year and slowly with a 2 head increase or so built up your allotment to about 30 head. Suddenly the phone calls came from the pasture managers. We need more cattle. Do you want 25 head increase or total up to your maximum quota. Why? The first wave of Pasture patrons baled out of the business.

Back to my case in 2010. CFIA is not the enemy. It is the CCIA (with fat headed cattlemen sitting at the board level) and the CCA and SCA and other cattlemen groups that are the enemy.

CFIA was "foolish" to show up in that court room that day. They could of made me spend time and $$$ on my own research and submit prefiled evidence like I did in Triplicate to meet the dead-lines leading up to the case.

Learning from my years with SAPL and From CAEPLA when one goes into a hearing against a pipeline company "GIANT" that one does not expect to win the outcome of the hearing. Be prepared to go into a hearing, spend your own time and effort, be your own legal counsel, learn along the way but the hearing is usually not in your favor. BUT. It is a path for others to follow and it can be written about for years to come and put in the media.

Surprisely I won my case, But CFIA or the cattlemen groups in part of the 3 stooges act forgot to do one thing.

Offer cost recovery, CFIA in the Anaplasmosis case in BC paid huge $$ to certain ranches but there was a "Gag Clause". In my case NO APOLOGY and No COST RECOVERY. So this story will keep popping up as long as I own the cow.

Today IMHO I watch the same personnel that appear/or are the government advisors to both the Federal and Provincial Ministers of AG. They are the same frontrunners in how the PFRA pastures divesting process appears to be taking place. Little thought process in place and so many little operators (mixed farmers) in my area are threatened to be pushed out of the cattle business. WHY? So many jobs lost which means young families in many rural communities now at risk.

THERE IS AN OLD SAYING. "you want to keep your friends close" "But you want to keep your enemies even closer"

[grassfarmer]

And these folks are the reasons we have a backwards
looking beef industry where producers will always be
price takers and not price setters.
No vision - no ambition.
We have the tools today that would allow the
consumer to scan a steak before purchase with their
iPhone and pull up the website of the rancher who
produced it and it could be fully traceable from birth
to slaughter. For the cattle owner we could benefit
from a cattle movement tracking system that would
be critical in dealing with a major disease outbreak
and it would tie in nicely with the BIXS program. We
could be world leaders in this but no - lets try and
hang onto the 1950s instead and support our cattle
operations by working off farm instead of adding
value to our produce and getting paid for that value.

[SADIE]

grassfarmer----yeh the BIX program. All good in theory and that once had me even excited.

SOLVE THE RETENTION PROBLEM and all would fall into place.

BYE BYE RFID EARTAG. SOON SOON

[grassfarmer]

"Alleged" retention problem experienced by some
operators.
The last 400 tags we have put on (all at birth) we have
had 2 to replace. That's retaining everything to
yearling stage, grass fats going at 18 months, bulls
going at 2yrs, heifers going into the herd.
Both losses we had were calves in their first summer
where the tag split the ear, likely caught on a fence.

[Happytrails]

We have the tools today that would allow the
consumer to scan a steak before purchase with their
iPhone and pull up the website of the rancher who
produced it and it could be fully traceable from birth
to slaughter.

My question to GF is when you have the tools to do all of the above why in H don't you? Trying to mandate niche marketing seems contradictory.