Test Fair Share?? Test

Rural Issues


Fair Share??

Oct 30, 2007 | 08:46 31 You always have response...but you never comment on the point!!

Which is....
"...those good paying, oil and gas sector jobs are an indirect kind of "royalty"! RIGHT!

You should be thankful that monies are paid into the economy through industry...where the trickle down impact has been significant, and not through the government.

In Saskatchewan, the NDP, after fifty years finally appear to have seen the light...or is it because the death of their regime is at hand. The prosperity of Alberta can no longer be ignored. It is where our kids work, where the heath care system is fifteen years ahead of ours. Where the roads are in far better shape. Where the taxes are lowerall of them!!

What defines you as a socialist Willagrow is the fact that you have such faith in government...especially an interventionist government...a "conservative" government...led by a pink Tory!! That says it all.

You dismiss the writers of every article I post yet I suspect they are much more attuned to the ramifications of the actions of your premier who is more interested in "governing" that getting a mandate from the people!!! Some democrat! Reply With Quote
Oct 30, 2007 | 09:36 32 Wilagro
If you have to resort to making crude and vulgar permutations of my posting name then I think you are a poor excuse for a human being. It shows your level of intelligence. Reply With Quote
Oct 30, 2007 | 10:05 33 Oh sorry "spudchucker", my mistake. Guess I should have checked back to your original posting. Reply With Quote
Oct 30, 2007 | 10:17 34 ivbinconned: Thank goodness Stelmach is a "pink" Tory. About time we had a Premier interested in "governing" instead of "selling" us out to the lowest bidder.

I was thinking of retiring (again), to Saskatchewan...what area would you recommend? Seems like a nice province with cheaper car insurance rates and real estate values not driven sky-high because of inflationary pressures as in Alberta. High-speed internet to most good sized towns and cities would be nice too. Reply With Quote
Oct 30, 2007 | 11:41 35 Apology accepted Reply With Quote
Oct 30, 2007 | 14:07 36 Oh you should move as close to the government tit as possible...Regina.

Come on over and you will find very high real-estate prices here too.
But beware...you seem to be oblivious of a few things....in 2002 more than 40 percent of Saskatchewans budget was not accounted for in the main books, the provincial budget!! Enron and World Com have nothing on these NDP bums! And they get a free ride from the leftist media.

As for cheap Auto insurance...think again! You get what you pay for. The average claim payout in Saskatchewan is $4135 compared to $11,895 in Alberta. Cheap? Right...cheap coverage...with high deductable!

SGI is the only Government insurance Crown on the planet that has a salvage division!!! It makes millions only because it gets first crack at salvage for practically nothing, freezing out the private sector.

Just imaging if on your farm...all you inputs were free!!! You would look like a genius.

Makes it easy to fool the gullible. Reply With Quote
Oct 30, 2007 | 21:05 37 Ivbc I see you are still at it, good for you .Do you share your lease land ? Do you take only what you need from the sale of your produce or do you try to get the most you can in the way of prices is that not ENVY or Goudging , I wish you would get a new teacher as it gets tireing to hear the same old tune all the time. Reply With Quote
Oct 30, 2007 | 21:57 38 Spending money is probably not the best definition of a capitalist.

Wanting to keep people under government control is not a capitalist ideal.

Not allowing individuals to make their own choices, succeed or fail, would not be the choice of a capitalist.

Advocating for higher taxes from higher wage earners to give to those that don't feel like working would not be a good definition of a capitalist.

Cheering on governments that grab control of as much as they can would probably not be considered proper by a capitalist. Reply With Quote
Oct 31, 2007 | 10:25 39 Actually horse Im in agriculture...I am told what I get paid!!

As for the crown land...my role is not much different than government employees that take care of the provincial parks...only they charge me for taking care of the land!!

I think I should be paid for being the care taker as there is no profit for what we produce off of it. Reply With Quote
Oct 31, 2007 | 10:56 40 So all good capitalists are now complaining, because the province of AB is now taking advantage of them, with a new unfair oil & gas royalty scheme. Good capitalists love paying high fuel prices at the pump, love getting the fram fuel bills, simply love the multinational companies that are taking advantage of them. It appears that all good capitalists are simply very stupid people. Ever talked with oil & gas people, most are goofs, rich goofs, but goofs at the best of times! Look at the vehicles and toys they buy with their cash, silly, silly people. Wait till the bubble busts, then snivelling and whinning starts, they as a group are far louder than framers. Reply With Quote
ado089's Avatar Oct 31, 2007 | 13:49 41 How quickly we forget...I'd like to se how all these "capitalist" react 2,5,10...years down the road when oil cools off, as it will regardless of royalties and their wages fall back down to the level that the rest of us who actualy make this society function (teachers, nurses, agronomists, farmers...)and the bills come due on their half million dollar mortgages, seventy thousand dollar trucks, boats, quads...what will your opionion of capitalism be when your bankrup a$$ is in line to collect poggie??? Reply With Quote
Oct 31, 2007 | 22:31 42 "when your bankrup a$$ is in line to collect poggie"

Then you'll know precisely how it feels to live under socialism. Reply With Quote
Oct 31, 2007 | 23:26 43 "down to the level that the rest of us who actualy make this society function (teachers, nurses, agronomists,"

How juvenile...your nameing of "government employees!!??

Laughable, sad, but very telling!
Another deep thinker. Reply With Quote
Oct 31, 2007 | 23:41 44 IV..

"And we are talking about today not yesterday."


People may change....but

Principles NEVER change!"

I was going to just leave this alone but IV.. In my opinion you misread my post and did not address the questions on principle in it. Because all I was writing about was principle.

We are actually talking more about tommorrow, today if that makes any sense. Do you not believe that circumstances today are differnt.

In the question you put forward ownership of the resource is implied because permission is given. Also the royalty system being put in place does not take the whole value of the resource extracted.

"IF the pioneers and explorers and risk takers and gold panners had all been told, "go ahead, dig, drill and explore if you want to take the risk...but what ever you find...what ever you gain...THAT, you must remember belongs to everyone"!!! "

Would things have been different for these first comers if the government of the day said go ahead, dig, drill and explore and if you discover something ensure all your expenses are paid first and then we can share in the resources that you have found in our land? Reply With Quote
ado089's Avatar Nov 1, 2007 | 12:08 45 IVBC...I appreciate that you pointed out that the first couple of those careers I mentioned are infact government funded but note that I did not say that they should make more money. I would be the first to kick out the NDP, I hate unions and beleive you should earn what you're worth. That being said I farm, I'm an agronomist for a farm input company and I am an owner in a construction company in Calgary. I know that the success of my construction company is directly related to the growth in the oil industry but that same growth is the reason I needed the extra income due to the inflated cost of living. So excuse me when I get a little worked up when I've spent thousands of dollars investing in my future as far as education, land, machinery and decades of work building a farm and buisness then I hear a bunch of high school drop outs wine about how their six figure income might drop because they chose a career path in a boom or bust industry. So increasing royalties is good insurance policy for when oil dries up and I'm still paying taxes and they are out of work maybe the rest of us will have a couple of years before we have to pickup that cost of that boom. The bottom line is that growth comes at a cost. Agriculture is what drove the initial growth of this country and therefore the existing infrastructure, now it's oils time to chip in, that is of course if you want a road to drive your seventy thousand dollar truck to your half million dollar house with electricity and running water. Reply With Quote
Nov 1, 2007 | 18:26 46 then I hear a bunch of high school drop outs whine

Well dont let that bother youin their immaturity they whine! What can you do? I have seen 24%interest rates on my farm machinery (1980)I whined too, but I learned some lessons!!

So increasing royalties is good insurance policy for when oil dries up

What makes you think its going to dry up? Is it the same experts that predicted Y2K, or the population explosion, or global cooling? Scarcity is the MO of the price setters!! Dont forget it.

Your last sentence I have already responded to. Sounds like envy to me!! Those jobs and the taxes they generate IS A FORM OF ROYALTYPAID into circulation. The only thing government would do with the money is create bigger government!

You say you do not like the NDP or the left but yet you want some body to manage the economy. You cant have your cake and eat it to.

BIG GOVERNMENT has never solved societys problems, the examples are many. Giving them more money to create BIGGER government is what you can be assured is what they will do. Reply With Quote
ado089's Avatar Nov 2, 2007 | 11:26 47 That is exactly government role...to manage the balance between free enterprise and social issues. If you would like anarchie move to south america, there's very little government involvement there, but oh ya next time you get hurt working on the rig or your kid comes down with pneumonia you're on your own. That is if you have anything left after the cartels take their what they feel belongs to them. As for envy read a little closer, I'm getting my piece of the pie so if anything I'm a hipocrit. Reply With Quote
Nov 2, 2007 | 14:29 48 Willy has wondered why I am interested!

Some times I think that those of you who reside, and have only resided, in Alberta, have your noses so close to the canvas you can not see the picture.

From my familys own experiance, and from those in the field advise that much of your hospital care, health programs, equipment,and methods are 15 years ahead of Saskatchewan.

Many of you have benifited a great deal from the Alberta boom although not directly. But the rising tide has raised all boats! Some can see the big picture.

Will could sell one acre there and buy 5 here...don't know whats holding him back?? Reply With Quote
Nov 2, 2007 | 22:36 49 Likely your NDP Government IVBIN !!! Reply With Quote
ado089's Avatar Nov 5, 2007 | 12:42 50 Maybe you should try living here. I haven't been back HOME to Sk. since we finished harvest, therefore haven't heard much on the upcoming election. What a shock it was to return home and see that even though any new potential government in sk basicaly has a cheat sheet right in front of them on what works and what needs inproving on based on alberta's model no one has a platform worth voting for. We still have the NDP that refuses to let go unions and government medling, the lberals who would like to see rural sask disapear and everything happening in saskatoon and regina and the sask party trying to be just like uncle ralf and giving the province away to big buisness, to the extent of adopting daylight savings time. It should be a no-brainer right now on how to make saskatchewan the most successful well balanced province in the country yet there still seems to be only two mindset there, communist and and radical capitalism. What ever happened to moderation? Reply With Quote
Nov 5, 2007 | 18:18 51 "radical capitalism." "daylight saving"??

Whats the connection?? Reply With Quote
ado089's Avatar Nov 6, 2007 | 13:22 52 There is no conection other than the fact that the sask party has demonstrated that they are not capable of independant though and they just want to be like alberta. If you want to save dayligh get out of bed earlier! Reply With Quote
Nov 6, 2007 | 18:37 53 My guess, with their "enterprise proposals"...The "Saskatchewan Party" will attempt to privatize the insurance industry and then you guys can enjoy much higher auto insurance...just like Alberta has.

Did you know that Albertans pay more for auto insurance than any other province? We like it that way. We believe in "corporate welfare". Soon, you will too. Reply With Quote
Nov 6, 2007 | 22:11 54 Willy you must stop that speed reading!
You miss stuff...like this tidbit that I posted on the 30th.

"But beware...you seem to be oblivious of a few things....in 2002 more than 40 percent of Saskatchewans budget was not accounted for in the main books, the provincial budget!! Enron and World Com have nothing on these NDP bums! And they get a free ride from the leftist media.

As for cheap Auto insurance...think again! You get what you pay for. The average claim payout in Saskatchewan is $4135 compared to $11,895 in Alberta. Cheap? Right...cheap coverage...with high deductable!"

Or do you have on those rosie glasses again? Reply With Quote
Nov 6, 2007 | 22:53 55 For several years now we have had this nifty little thing in Alberta that LIMITS payouts on auto accidents to $4,000.

Hurt plenty of lawyers that did accident claims work because they worked on contingency.

Despite the fact that our premiums have gone down, they are still outrages. So, are we in Alberta getting what we pay for?

Oh yeah, I forgot - it is part of that trickle down effect we are feeling from all this oil money. That and high gas bills and electricity bills, severely overpriced housing costs and rents, long wait times for any kind of service, if you can call it that in many cases. We have escalating social problems and a ever widening gap between rich and poor, but we don't want to look at that now do we?

There are people that are living way, way, way beyond their means who are terrified of the oil patch slowing down even more than it has. Too bad they are too young to remember the last oil boom and the promise made if there was ever another one.

What people have to remember is that not everyone works in the oil patch or even wants to for that matter.

Seems to me there are more than just a few folks with rose colored glasses. Reply With Quote
Nov 7, 2007 | 09:19 56 Just read this little bit from a web site cakado. Your mention of electricity rates reminded me of it.

"Ms. Forbes further stated that the
electricity rates that Sask Power
charged the mill were substantially
higher than any of its Canadian competitors
paid. If they were charged
Alberta rates, for example, the mill
would save approximately $4 million

So here we have a Crown utility charging the Medow Lake mill, that the people have alarge stake in, rates that helped bring the mill to its demise??

Feed lot operaters have said for years that the power rates in Saskatchewan added a $25,000 dollar bill to a 25000 head feed lot. Reply With Quote
Nov 7, 2007 | 10:10 57 Some of the people who remember the mess the petroleum industry was in during the early 80's are still living beyond their means and have brought their kids up to do the same !!!
Stopped at the post office yesterday and counted four Escalades, one BMW and a Lincoln Navigator in the parking lot !! Most of them owned by people who are crying loud and long about the new royalty regime !!!

Notice, not a word has been mentioned about the crisis in the cattle industry in Alberta, with the exception of one question from the Olds/Didsbury MLA to the Ag Minister during Question Period in the Leg yesterday.

Linda, did you hear the numbers quoted for the EUB/Altalink hearing ? It was an obscene amount, for a hearing that has been declared a mistrial !

Can any of you Sask. folks explain what sort of regulatory system you have in place for the oil/gas industry in your province ? Reply With Quote
Nov 7, 2007 | 11:07 58 We have an entire generation that has no idea what it is like to go through a recession, let alone a depression. Living on borrowed money is not the answer to anything.

Coppertop, you bring up interesting points - no one is thinking about what is happening in agriculture, even though one in three jobs owes its existence to agriculture in some way shape or form. Compare that to one in 6 for the oil industry.

No where is anyone concerned about the rate that good viable agricultural land is being eaten up for municipal progress. A case in point is a farmer outside of Innisfail who has been farming organically for 15 years. His lands are being annexed, so 15 years worth of organic soils are going to be lost forever. There is land around him that could be used that is of far less value, but they are taking his. So much for sustainble agriculture. But then again, we are geared towards industrialized agriculture, aren't we? Reply With Quote
Nov 7, 2007 | 14:59 59 The current crisis in the beef industry is going to weed out a lot of good farmers, some very close to my home. Some are taking as many subdivisions out of their land as the land use by-law will allow, and selling them as fast as they can to keep the banker happy. The only problem with that philosophy is that we now have a glut of five acre parcels for sale throughout the county ! Reply With Quote