Intellectual Property Laws

[tweety]

Why do many farmers feel so passionately that intellectual property laws shouldn't apply to seeds like they do to everything else they use or buy?

[bucket]

Uh, well, let's see.

Where the **** does the r&d money come from?

Who is putting up the seed money for the r&d?

And where is the ROI that everyone says comes from that r&d?

Answer those questions and I think you get your answers.

[tweety]

I don't know bucket, where did the "seed" money come from to buy Calgene's gene gun technology and research the bacteria that metabolizes roundup to produce roundup ready technology?

Or where did the "seed" money come from to achieve genetic male sterility in Invigor?

[Klause]

Look up open source seed.


It worked for software why wouldn't the gnu/lgpl work for seed?


Already happening in Europe and the US/SA


Windows vs. Linux
Monsanto vs. OSSI



doesn't have to be funded by taxpayer subsidies.

[bucket]

Don't get me wrong. I think all investors should have a roi. But if you make it unaffordable for the users of the seed you can't have a return.

And protecting seed patents for 20 plus years is getting insane.

All the while dropping responsibility if something goes wrong. As only an example for reference, not to add to a debate, triffid flax. And who got the bill?

[farmaholic]

Is 50-60 dollars per acre on every canola acre every year in Western Canada a fair price to pay? Maybe they should try trimming some of the fat out of their system. Like people and things that contribute no value.

Even pharmaceuticals come off patents and become cheaper. What makes the seed companies immune?

[TOM4CWB]

Bucket,

Triffid is an interesting case.

Let me see... there was absolutely nothing wrong with Triffid flax... and it could have helped growers immensely had we finished the job.

We still should allow triffid... IP it and it would be a great crop if handled as such.

BUT/and the really bad part is... farmers believe they had the rights to break all the proper seed protocols...

If triffid had happened in the USA... farmers would have been compensated... but since very few growers RESPECT Intellectual property rights...

We have had a totally screwed up seed system in Canada... before UPOV-91 was passed.

Triffid cost our family $250,000 easy... so don't say there was no pain in this for our seed farm.

[burnt]

Bucket: "All the while dropping responsibility if something goes wrong. As only an example for reference, not to add to a debate, triffid flax. And who got the bill?"

Therein lies the problem. All the rights and rewards but NONE of the responsibility when things go wrong.

[TOM4CWB]

These 250K losses... mean there has been a total net loss to growing pedigreed seed for our family over the past 10 years.

Yet you claim seed growers are ripping you off.

What an absurd reality seed growers live in... you know it... if there was a good profit in growing pedigreed seed...

IS;
you would be happy to grow seed as well!

[bucket]

Triffid much like Syngenta corn was not approved by the market end users.

And was never commercially available. Unless you trickled it thru your other flax seeds hey tom?

Blaming farmers that never had access to it? Interesting tom.

But the point is who pays when this happens?

It seems the same guys that get mandatory r&d checkoffs, buying overpriced seed and then the bill when shit hits the fan.

[bucket]

Tom

To be fair I buy certified seed as I see different varieties that ae better.

I buy enough to seed on a quarter and grow the seed for myself.

Is there a problem with that.

Occasionally if a neighbor is short I will help out. But I don't want to be in your business.

But I appreciate the seed growers for the seed I buy at value prices.

[farmaholic]

Primary Ag Production in Canada is a "sacred cow" that is meant to be milked for eternity but never killed.

[TOM4CWB]

Bucket, Commercial farmers DID get access to Triffid (my point was no respect for law and not legally)... how else did it get all the way through western Canada and around the globe???

Growing seed is a lifestyle. I know you will never be convinced seed growers do anything useful... I am not trying to change your mind... that is not possible.

Cheers!

[tweety]

Klause:

On traditional PCs and Macs, Microsoft still owns an overwhelming market share, with 91.8 percent of all traffic coming from Windows-based machines. Among non-Microsoft operating systems, both OS X and Linux have stalled since October 2011, hovering around 6.9 percent and 1.2 percent, respectively.Apr 1, 2013

Apparently you're wrong. Almost no "real" software is free. Either is no "real" seed that has or ever will have valuable intellectual property within it.

[bucket]

Tom

Some of your peers let it out. Don't blame farmers. It was never commercially released. Don't twist this onto farmers that bought certified bethune flax.

Unless you want to revisit the breeders who were also negligent.