Bull Ethics

[wilagro]

I have a question about ethics and would like some feedback.

The scenerio: Last summer a neighbour advertised that he had a yearling Black Angus bull for sale. I phoned him, (and since he had a pretty good reputation for quality stock), agreed to buy the bull (sight unseen). Three months after delivery, I noticed the growth of small horns which developed further over the winter. They are now about an inch long with little circles on the ends as if they had had an electric burner/dehorner applied at one time.

I was a city slicker for many years, but I know that Angus cattle are a naturally polled breed. I also found out from another neighbour that the seller also had some Maine-Anjou cattle. Are you starting to get the drift?

What course of action should I take?

1). Rant and rave and demand a full refund?
2). Ask for a replacement?
3). Demand compensation?
4). Accept the fact that I have been had?
5). Say nothing and reap the benefit of the 3-way cross calves?
6). Only buy from reputable breeders in the future?

The bull has produced some very nice calves although they are a bit leggy and not quite what I expected.

[carebear300]

Wilagro I personally would demand compensation. This breeder screwed you once intentionally or unintentionally and I wouldn't be trusting him again. I would also report him to the angus association because what you bought for sure isn't an Angus. This is just my opinion for what it is worth.

[dalek]

Depends if he was sold to you as a fullblood Angus, purebred, or just called an Angus. If not sold specifically as a fullblood or purebred he could just be sold as a bull with a high percentage of Angus blood and still have a throwback to something horned.

[cowman]

If you really want an Angus go talk to him about a trade. If the bull did the job and you are happy with the calves why worry? Still it wouldn't hurt to mention it to the breeder.
The angus breed went from being these little runts to big cattle in a very short time. Now the breeders will tell you that it was all "selection" but I suspect they got a little help from some "mistakes". Now I have no absolute proof of this but I used to raise herford bulls and it was a very well known fact that a lot of Simmental blood "leaked"
in! The bull Titan was a part Simmental...it was common knowledge. The bull Perfection had some red holstein in him and they sort of got caught on him.
Anyway if you want a purebred polled angus I'm sure the breeder will accommadate you. If he gives you any
grief on it just mention that you like to talk about your "purebred" down on coffee row! He's in the game and can't afford to have the facts leak out.

[pandiana]

If the bull was sold to you, registered and transfered, you would have recourse, as he would have to deal with you and his breed association. If it was just a bull with black hide and Angus influence, there would be no guarantee associated with his pedigree. (I would guess that most black cattle marketed today are 'angus' if they are looking for a premium whether there is any angus in them at all). If you purchased the bull at a discount price, and or not registered you have in a sense told the breeder that all you want is a bull. This is an example, I think of why you should always demand registration papers transfered to your name. It's cheap insurance.

[Muttley]

I as a Angus breeder and member myself have ran into this sort of problem before.

You can rant and rave all you want and blame the seller, or except the fact that bulls cross pasture fences all the time. As in the case of Angus, being they are black it is sometimes difficult to determine without a DNA test if the offspring are truly Angus.

I have also herd reports over the years about scurs showing up in some Angus cattle. These are not horns but I as a breeder would cull the sire or dam to make sure it never happened again. I suspect that it is the scurs not horns if they are coming later.

Give your seller the benefit of the doubt if he has a good reputation talk to him or her they will satisfy you and if not then go to the association.

[cowman]

I guess the main problem here are the horns. Probably the calves will only be improved with a little shot of Maine! If this bull throws scurred calves it won't matter one iota to the feedlot buyers. Are you worried that any heifers you keep might carry the horn gene? Personally I have found the old poll gene is pretty tough. Besides I like to think when they bred the horns off them they also bred out all the brains!
I guess you have to decide if the whole thing is worth the hassle? I suggest you mention it to him and forget it. You really don't want to get into a big battle over one bull. Chalk it up to experience.

[carebear300]

As you have noticed wilagro I am the most contankerous of the contributors and on further reflection the rest of the more moderate contributors are making more sense than me. Again for what it is worth.

[wilagro]

Thanks, I really appreciate the feedback. Nice to get your opinions on this matter.

Best regards...

[edbaker]

Hi guys,

Can any of you old birds tell this long-defected farmer ...

what, pray, is *wrong* with a *horny* bull??