Why not another Class Action Lawsuit. This time with the CFIA, CCIA, AND CCA?

[SADIE]

Coffee row chatter in our area. This area has many farms that are mixed. They are smaller cow-calf operators that need the PFRA pastures to keep their mixed enterprises. They cannot afford to purchase these pastures.

The frustration of these laws under the monetary fines act regarding RFID eartags. The frustration of purchasing these "short-term" plastic tags with short retention. The frustration of re-tagging for PFRA Pasture or any pasture of intermingling.

Who set up the language of these laws?

Who approved the tags for use in Canadian Conditions?

Who withheld information regarding these tags useage--operating environmental temps.

After Watching the personnel move from positions on one board in one agency to another association to another isn't that a cosy group? (legal cousel included)

In our democratic society this traceability was imposed on the cow-calf producer, Where is the accountability (tag approval), Fine enforcement). Now without accountability where is the credability with CCIA or CCA?

This could be extended to all producers who have sold their herds, got out of the cattle business across Canada.

Cost of tags, Cost of retagging, Personnel injury, loss of farm income (that part of business), Loss of income to trucking, veterinary clinic.

Isnt this another case for a CLASS ACTION and this time include all three in the mix. (CFIA, CCIA, CCA)??

This thread has been pretty quiet.

COMMENTS??

[grassfarmer]

Great idea!! Let's call it the "General bitching and
moaning, wanting someone to give us some money"
lawsuit.
Now for my tag retention report update as I just
finished moving pairs onto summer pasture. I ran all
my 1st and 2nd calvers through the chute to clip hair
out of their ears so i could read their management
tags. 47 head - not one RFID missing, not one
management tag missing. All were applied at birth -
Z-tag and Allflex RFIDd, Allflex large dangle tags.
Maybe you want to sue me too now for sharing this
positive news?

[ProFarmer]

Grass farmer you are either full of shit or your cows stay out of the sun. My tags ( and i have tried all brands ) are equally junk the backs disintagrate to nothing and then fall through the holes in the ears. You must be just a suck up to these companies and ccia. 1 what tags do you use? 2 do your cows ever see the light of day? 3 You must not have any barbed wire,trees, twine or anything else in your pastures...

[SADIE]

Grassfarmer--Thankyou for responded to this post---I knew you would. This gives me a chance to expand on the real picture.

THIS IS ABOUT ACCOUNTABILITY AND CREDABILITY NOW.

I have been in Veterinary Practice since convocation in 1976 from WCVM. During our 6 year course study we were taught to become diagnosticians. Problem solvers. During my years in Beef-cow calf practice & equine many products were introduced into the industry. Most came with research and background data. Many products were sold and used out of our two large animal clinics in east-central Alberta. No problems occured at all. Suddenly the pharmaceutical rep sent a memo, showed up or even discontinued products that we had no problems with because of just 1 CASE OF A PROBLEM in Eastern Canada or the United states.

That is being accountable and that enhanced being reputable towards that company. Those companies that showed that type of "do Diligence" were ultimately successfull.

Occasionally my wife or I have bought a new vehicle. Drive for 200-300,000kms and usually there is a "RECALL PROBLEM" notice in the mail about a faulty part for warranty on 1 CAR in another part of the world. Rarely did we go in to have this part changed. That is being accountable and henceforth reputable.

About last year Grassfarmer you posted your case of animal problems on a possible "POISONING". You were all excited about telling us about "your problem". I have seen many "possible poisoning of cattle" over the years and they are non-exciting issues as well.

YOur problem was not the problem of a few of us on this post.


When there is a problem in veterinary medicine about products or proceedures we were taught to take it on "FRONT AND CENTRE" get it in the open, talk about it and usually we move on with modifications and problems become solved.

This ongoing case of RFID Tags and retention when a cow-man approached CCIA personnel or the CCA personnel that I know we were "SHUNNED AWAY". These beaurocratic people had their own tunnel vision agenda and didn't want it discussed.

Now the problem is beyond that level. It is now in the political arena. Saskatchewan Provincial Ag Minister, the widespread media. Now it is a BIG PROBLEM.

Boy I am glad I got fined that day back in 2009. I would of never studied or learnt what I now know today.

Enjoy your eartags Grassfarmer. Give the eartags time in your animals and you will see. Maybe you butcher them too quickly and your need is just short-term feedlot tags.

[grassfarmer]

Re-read the post pro farmer, I told you the types and
brands tags I was using. My cows are out in pasture
year round, lots of electric fence but barb perimeter
fences too. Not many broken down ones that cows
stick their heads through. Plenty of trees, bush
pastures etc. Twine is not an issue as it is removed
from any bales I feed.
Sorry if the truth is uncomfortable for the
complainers, as I've said before ear tag retention is
not an issue on my place. Not saying it isn't a
problem on other operations but equally I'm not
buying SADIES continual "sky is falling" proclamations
on this issue. We each can only provide our opinions
on here, none of us speak for the entire cattle sector.

[kato]

From what you are saying, it seems to me is that the tags appear to be OK for someone who pastures year round, likely bale grazes, so does not use bale feeders. In which case, the tags should come with a warning that they only work under one management method.

In the real world, there are as many management methods as there are people who have cattle. Our cows are grazing ten months of the year, but are in the yard for calving, and then they do eat out of bale feeders. (Bale grazing for us is another way of saying feeding the deer.) All the twine is cut off of ever single bale we feed.

So what's the difference? I'm thinking it's likely bale feeders. Backing their heads out of the feeder gives the tag a good rub every time. And you can only imagine how many times a day this happens. Add that up over twelve years, and that tag is toast. This also explains the high tag loss in bulls. For us it's close to 100% on anything over two years old. Their big fat heads just barely fit between the bars of the feeders.

I would think the majority of Canadian cattle spend at least part of the year with their heads in bale feeders. That's not about to change, so it follows that the majority of Canadian cattle have a tag retention problem.

So what to do? I say design a tag that works under ALL management methods, or quit making criminals out of cattle producers.

[grassfarmer]

We use round bale feeders kato, every category of
animal eats out of some type of bunk here in winter. I
think bale grazing will lead to more tag loss issues -
especially the new craze of feeding net wrapped bales
and leaving the wrap on. That sounds like a recipe for
disaster. Thus far we have never bale grazed.

[SADIE]

Grassfarmer.

This is all about agencies being accountable, open with all scientific data and not to push their agenda with PROPGANDA that has been false and misleading to producers.

Now CCIA, CCA are trying to enforce more issues like buying scanners, In this province having us give premise ID.

The Attitude is Listen to us and follow the mandate of these agencies.

Without accountability now there is no credability to move further down their path of agenda.

Grassfarmer--forget about the idea of being sued. I am not a lawyer but the way I understand it-- in a class action those that have had losses and cost relating to losses like purchasing more tags, injury loss to animals in chute or personnel body injuries, time lost in trying to verify that animals have tags before shipping, auction mart added tagging expenses, plus many more economic losses like being forced out of the cattle business---these people would be welcome to participate in a class action.

[Horse]

Lets throw in 1 more that costs us as individuals a hell of a lot more than tagging, thats how the gov charges on lease land to welfare cattlemen $50 mil on under charging what the rates are in the private sector then throwin 50 to 100 mil more in oil revenue and try to compete with that.
How do you like it when your calves go through the same sale but lease holder calves have a $150 to $300 advantage thanks to your provincial GOV.

[DogPatch]

SADIE

what have you been smoking? None is forcing anyone to buy into the scanners, readers etc, except the auction marts, and anyone who would assemble large groups of cattle. Most provinces are paying the producers for a large portion of their RFID tags (Alberta) and the Equipment either through one of their Best Practices programs.

I've heard all the stories about how poor the tags stay in too, but I haven't had problems with our animals. Our tag of preference is the Destron, who have now been bought out by Allflex.

As far as being accountable...... well thats a whole other story, but we ALL have to be accountable for our actions too, espectially if we have the trees, wire, twine etc, or whatever. Sometimes if we don't push that tagger tight, we're not applying that tag right either. How can we blame that on the manufacturer?

[DogPatch]

Further to this...... The US of A, now that they have their own first official case of BSE are finding that now they are way behind on traceability. Maybe if we had had nukes 9 years ago, we wouldn't have had to implement RFID tags to try and show our export markets that we can find the problems, if we have too.

[SADIE]

Dog Patch

First of all I only smoked years a go a cigar or two---even a white owl when I had to do a rotten calving for a client in late May or June. You know the type where you reach in and pull out a tooth at a time or a fetotomy when you had to cut the animal up.


Destron is a better choice of tags and I will show you why. The temp variation alone is -25C -50 C .

The second post shows Destron the better tag of the three tested on Tensile strength, tags in manure test of 30 days tensile strength and then the tags soaked in ammonia tensile strength.

A couple years back as I spoke to practicing veterinarians and their producers showing the DVD that is in my possession it was fine until a huge shipment came into Saskatchewan and the total pins were broke off at the flat washer area. The clinics updated that research and sent all those tags back. I believe it was to COMPASS.

So these tags did not pass the 99.99 day retention for 30 days.

I think one or two regular posters on this site will/can comment on the shortfall of the Destron tags on their cow-herds.

Incentives---Yes you people in ALberta have had huge incentives. By purchasing your equipment did you not have to sign up your premise ID.

Saskatchewan--incentives is not strong and I will not play that game. My signature is sacred to me and I take the same approach as when Pipeline companies want entry on my land. My signature is not given to any goverment, any beaurcratic agency very easy. No premise ID here.

I hope the next two posts are clear on the details of the destron tag. This evidence came to me from the high tech engineers who were advising CCIA on RFID eartags. This data of 19 pages were presented at the COLEMAN VS CFIA TRIBUNAL HEARING through me as an expert witness. It also contained the ALLFLEX TEMP SPECS of 0C to 50 C that is the tag for the bison people.

[SADIE]

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[SADIE]

dogpatch

Good luck now with your destron tags now that Allflex has bought out destron.