Seed royalty questions..

[bucket]

I said in another thread I was working on questions for the meeting on December 4th in Saskatoon...I may or may not make it....some of these questions I have asked in other threads but I want to make this strictly for questions that should be asked and maybe people will add a few more...Not too interested in the seed side since they have been lobbying for this for quite awhile ..I am sure they have crossed their "I"s and dotted their "T"s ..puke here...


Here goes and please don't interrupt me or complain about my language...I don't need a microphone ...I am so pissed about this i feel like am in the middle of the field when something breaks down due to manufacturers defects...And you are the piece of machinery I am yelling at....

My name is dumbuckled farmer Bucket and I have a few questions about the proposals put in front of farmers regarding a royalty scheme.

1. How much time has been spent developing this policy…
Do farmers that are impacted get the equivalent time to pander, lobby and fill brown bags with cash as the seed trade has done...

2. Who or where were primary producers in the process.
Can any primary producer put their hand up that represented primary producers or helped fill the cash bags?

3. Will primary producers be able to lobby the same amount of time ?
We deserve to be heard

4. Who polices the new policies
Who is responsible for accuracy of all this

5. Who pays in the event of a default or a dud variety
I will just say Triffid flax and I think we all know where this is going...Not one person sitting at the front helped primary producer in that event...For a variety that was to have been cleansed 10 years prior...NO one accepted responsibility other than to where the bill came...the farmer.

Similar issues have happened in the states with corn and soybeans....lawyers got rich

6. What happens if the graincos are the seed supplier and they restrict contracts to their private label varieties?
Reference here is a Nexera program or the Warburton contracts...


7. Are the new varieties carbon neutral or carbon reducing
I hope for a few laughs at that point

8. Is this just another tax?
Pretty much
9. In mid september according to some reports there was 10 billion worth of grain still in the field…do farmers need to be kicked upside the head with this in harvest?
HAs the new variety that grades 5cwad with 10PPM of fusarium been developed for a dry season because that was a money maker if signed at the right time this year....paid better than a one a month later

10. Does the world need high quality?
Most durum is a 3 or better...lentils a 2 or better etc etc
11. does the world need volume?
Apparently not and the world is still starving

12. Are there still starving people in Yemen and africa?

13. What happened to our ownership of developing new varieties thru our check offs,,excess freight bill and taxes????

[bucket]

So now I have been thinking a little more....Maybe the Canadian Seed Trade Association needs a wake up call....

Maybe its time to look for a North American grading system....Maybe I should be buying my seed from an American seed developer...

BUT BUT But the CSTA is protected by the government... as are the varieties they develop...

Where are farmers rights?????

After all its an open market now ..right?

[walterm]

So now I have been thinking a little more....Maybe the Canadian Seed Association needs a wake up call....

Maybe its time to look for a North American grading system....Maybe I should be buying my seed from an American seed developer...

BUT BUT But the CSA is protected by the government...

Where are farmers rights?????

What is the cost of same variety of seed in the USA compared to Canada?

[chuckChuck]

When the seed and chemical companies control all the seed their primary goal is to maximize profits by selling expensive seeds and inputs to farmers whether farmers get any benefits or not.

A lot of agronomic options to reduce the use of pesticides and other inputs to save farmers money, never get researched or developed because there is often nothing to sell when farmers modify their rotations, integrate livestock and forages, use intercropping to name just a few examples.

Colin Rosengren, Derek Axten, Gabe Brown have all changed their farming systems in innovative ways and reduced their use of pesticides without reducing yields and in many cases improving their yields.

Intercropping and cover cropping are some of the methods that they are using. Focusing on improving the soil and yields is their goal not buying more inputs.

[bucket]

Chickpeas with flax seems to be a research project some guys are trying...


I think a good defence is a better offence....to lets start telling the CSTA that this isn't going to happen ....no one is buying their bullshit about better varieties or quality because no one wants it....look at the grade patterns for the last couple years...

[ajl]

Way too much thinking on a Saturday morning bucket. We need to think about this from the perspective of a Canuckistanian bureaucrat. We are creating a world class technology here in Canuckistan with high paying jobs. This will generate investment here and that investment will need a rate of return coming from somewhere. All this is going to generate tax dollars which fund bureaucrat pensions. The whole world is going to be seeing Canuckistan as a technological leader from which they can source the technology to feed the world population. This going to help Chinese and South American producers increase production. Now don't have thoughts now that maybe producers in those countries should help contribute to that investment. Don't be silly, turn of that thinker.

[helmsdale]

If this is about brown bagging seed for your neighbor, wouldn't it be awfully damned simple to have to present a bill of sale from a seed grower for the variety that you are declaring at the point of sale?

If you can prove that you have obtained the variety you are growing through lawful means there should be no additional action.

[Guest]

If this is about brown bagging seed for your neighbor, wouldn't it be awfully damned simple to have to present a bill of sale from a seed grower for the variety that you are declaring at the point of sale?

If you can prove that you have obtained the variety you are growing through lawful means there should be no additional action.

because its not about that , its about sucking every cent they can out of us

[TASFarms]

Just think about paying royalties on Canola and soybeans. Can’t see there being any gain for farmers

[sawfly1]

The golden rule
He who makes the rules gets the gold.

I do not think , new rules will give seed breeders less money.
The. Best we can hope for is to create some kind of
Real competition in the business.

We know It does not happen now. There is no 6$ / lb
Canola seed is there..

Maybe the Chinese in the end , will step up ,will save us from the strangle hold .

Of use agreements . And regulatory hurdles, that protect
Bayer and others from real competition.
Protection from
from even 30 year old varieties.


You can try and Make sure there are doors , for open competition.
But that is a dream.
They are too well connected

Sleeping in the same bed as conservatives.
And while the liberals may not sleep with
Them. You do not piss off a good paying
Supporter.
Better supporter than farmers.

You will get lip service to your concerns bucket.
Then they enact whatever the big boys
Want.
And by the way , you can keep and replant
Any seed from before 1980.

Nothing will come from the
Gov. For public breeding.
Trudeau
Blew all the money on a
pipeline. That if ever gets built. Will be sold by the next
Conservative for pennies on the dollar

[furrowtickler]

The golden rule
He who makes the rules gets the gold.

I do not think , new rules will give seed breeders less money.
The. Best we can hope for is to create some kind of
Real competition in the business.

We know It does not happen now. There is no 6$ / lb
Canola seed is there..

Maybe the Chinese in the end , will step up ,will save us from the strangle hold .

Of use agreements . And regulatory hurdles, that protect
Bayer and others from real competition.
Protection from
from even 30 year old varieties.


You can try and Make sure there are doors , for open competition.
But that is a dream.
They are too well connected

Sleeping in the same bed as conservatives.
And while the liberals may not sleep with
Them. You do not piss off a good paying
Supporter.

You will get lip service to your concerns bucket.
Then they enact whatever the big boys
Want.
And by the way , you can keep and replant
Any seed from before 1980

Sad thing is on your last sentence is very true but ... no one will buy it unless you feed it through livestock...
They will force grain farmers onto the treadmill or be tossed off. But once on the treadmill, be prepared to work hard for Walmart salaries. Get big, follow their rules or be forced out . Will be not much inbetween.
Will be a very interesting game to play as this all unfolds .

[grassfarmer]

Sad thing is on your last sentence is very true but ... no one will buy it unless you feed it through livestock...
They will force grain farmers onto the treadmill or be tossed off. But once on the treadmill, be prepared to work hard for Walmart salaries. Get big, follow their rules or be forced out . Will be not much inbetween.
Will be a very interesting game to play as this all unfolds .

Yet when someone suggests an alternative you dismiss it out of hand?

[furrowtickler]

Yet when someone suggests an alternative you dismiss it out of hand?

Like what ?
There are many alternatives to beef ... tread carefully....
BTW I still live my beef 🥩👍, and will never cut down the everyday cattleman .. you should think about that here as well

[grassfarmer]

Like what ?

Like the agroecology article. It seemingly contains potential solutions to many of the problems posters are constantly complaining about on here.
Overpriced fertilizer
Overpriced chemicals that don't work properly and the consumer hates anyway
Being able to use farm saved seed
Maintaining yields and greatly increasing the profitability of your farm
Improving the image of farming in the eyes of the non-farm dwelling consumer.

How can farmers fail to be excited, intrigued or curious about how such an approach might work for them? Instead it's met with the usual dismissal and hatred because the word "organic" was mentioned and we all hate organic, they're the enemy. So back into bed you jump with the guys selling you the high priced inputs and not paying enough for your produce that you say are causing your farms to be economically unsustainable. Is it Stockholm syndrome or what am I not getting?

[bucket]

Sorry to switch gears here...but can someone answer questions about the CDC...

1. Its owned by the U of S ...right?

2. Varieties with CDC in front of them are developed by them?

3. Why isn't that a profit centre as they sell those varieties to CPS, Monsanto, Bayer, Basf and others..

4. Since the CDC is funded by taxpayers shouldn't the public own those varieties to the point of sale and the sale price should include all costs to that point plus profit plus a ROI to the funders...whether it be the taxpayer, the checkoffs or the excess freight from WGRF?

Or am I just tupid?