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    #16
    Furthermore, Kenney says Alberta could be looking at unemployment in Alberta of 25% in the next two years. That is higher than unemployment has ever been anywhere in Canada. The worst was in NFLD in the 80's and then it was only 18%. Hell it is worst that the US unemployment numbers at the peak of the great depression at 24%. And Kenney is talking about spending money to give away our resources! If his truly believes his predictions I hope he shares his government plan with us real soon as to how Albertans are supposed to cope instead of just telling us how bad it is going to be.

    Nice touch though, telling the oil industry the day before that the environmental cleanup is now a "collective financial liability." Was he telling the industry to expect another taxpayer gift to cover abandoned well cleanup. When did the oil industry and conservatives become such socialists to demand the taxpayers clean up their mess.

    I guess just add this largess to other support governments from all parties give the oil industry. Industry says we cannot compete with foreign oil because ours cost more to produce so we need support. We cannot afford to build pipelines because of low prices so please subsidize pipeline construction. We cannot afford to build refineries in Canada, it is must better that subsidized pipelines take Canadian oil to US or Chinese refineries. Our increasing production has outstripped pipeline capacity so we need rail transport now so the government needs to build tank cars for us and displace some of that grain being moved and don't worry about safety. Yet when world oil prices fall to historical low levels that same industry tells Canadians faced with gasoline prices that don't come down that the industry is competitive so prices are where they should be.
    Last edited by dmlfarmer; Apr 8, 2020, 22:05.

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      #17
      You guys are comparing apples to oranges here. We can take a crop off and pile it, buy bins, put it in cheap bags to store it. You cant do that with oil! Oil needs to move. Hence a likely scenario to have to pay someone to take it.

      Secondly, you cant just turn off the taps on the oil sands for example and turn them back on next week. It's a long drawn out process. I dont know exactly how long it takes but I'd be willing to bet it would take many months. And then many months to get things going again. Therefore it'll cost more to do that than keep things rolling at a loss for a year.

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        #18
        Upon reflection, the only way to make a comparison would be to spend the money putting seed , fert and spray into your crop and then tell the farmer to just leave it in the field, dont harvest it. Would you do that? No. Because even if grain prices tanked like oil has, you would still want to recoup some of your costs while not incurring more costs trying to make fields seedable next year

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          #19
          Originally posted by dfarms11 View Post
          Upon reflection, the only way to make a comparison would be to spend the money putting seed , fert and spray into your crop and then tell the farmer to just leave it in the field, dont harvest it. Would you do that? No. Because even if grain prices tanked like oil has, you would still want to recoup some of your costs while not incurring more costs trying to make fields seedable next year
          Good comparison dfarms11

          We need to pray for wisdom and encourage our leaders... not throw rocks at them... they have the toughest job of anyone except/next to health care workers in ICU and hauling out the dead bodies...or dairy farmers dumping milk down the drain.

          Try stopping milking cows and see how well that goes when we need milk in a month...

          Easter Blessings! We pray for wisdom for our MP'S and MLA'S...PM and PREMIERS. Many blessings, safety, health, and good seeding weather!

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by dfarms11 View Post
            Upon reflection, the only way to make a comparison would be to spend the money putting seed , fert and spray into your crop and then tell the farmer to just leave it in the field, dont harvest it. Would you do that? No. Because even if grain prices tanked like oil has, you would still want to recoup some of your costs while not incurring more costs trying to make fields seedable next year
            tell me, how do you recoup costs if you get paid nothing for what you produce and in fact have to pay someone to take it.

            in your farm example, you would have less expenses to leave the crop in the field than if you had to actually pay someone to take the crop (note in negative pricing you do not get paid anything for what you are selling and in fact your costs increase because you are paying someone to buy your asset)

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              #21
              Originally posted by TOM4CWB View Post
              Good comparison dfarms11

              We need to pray for wisdom and encourage our leaders... not throw rocks at them... they have the toughest job of anyone except/next to health care workers in ICU and hauling out the dead bodies...or dairy farmers dumping milk down the drain.

              Try stopping milking cows and see how well that goes when we need milk in a month...

              Easter Blessings! We pray for wisdom for our MP'S and MLA'S...PM and PREMIERS. Many blessings, safety, health, and good seeding weather!
              Tom, in the states today, they basically have stopped milking the cows. Milk is being poured down the drain everyday because there is no market for it. Cheaper for the farmer themselves to pour it down the drain then to pay someone to haul it away.

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                #22
                Originally posted by TOM4CWB View Post
                Good comparison dfarms11

                We need to pray for wisdom and encourage our leaders... not throw rocks at them... they have the toughest job of anyone except/next to health care workers in ICU and hauling out the dead bodies...or dairy farmers dumping milk down the drain.

                Try stopping milking cows and see how well that goes when we need milk in a month...

                Easter Blessings! We pray for wisdom for our MP'S and MLA'S...PM and PREMIERS. Many blessings, safety, health, and good seeding weather!
                So where is God in this? Hasn't shown up for work healing anyone or performing any miracles, must not be an essential service. Is he in isolation too?

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by dmlfarmer View Post
                  tell me, how do you recoup costs if you get paid nothing for what you produce and in fact have to pay someone to take it.

                  in your farm example, you would have less expenses to leave the crop in the field than if you had to actually pay someone to take the crop (note in negative pricing you do not get paid anything for what you are selling and in fact your costs increase because you are paying someone to buy your asset)
                  So when the price of canola was $9 earlier this year did any farmers sell at this or did they wait to sell? It doesn't matter because at that point in time the price was $9.

                  The same as when the price goes negative on oil. Does that mean there will still be oil flowing on anything except that which for a whole host of reasons can't be stopped that quick? It doesn't matter because that is still the price offered that day.

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by wd9 View Post
                    So where is God in this? Hasn't shown up for work healing anyone or performing any miracles, must not be an essential service. Is he in isolation too?
                    I will hazard a guess that God's representatives are still raping young children....didn't they just put another one in jail the other day...

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                      #25
                      Did any of you guys listen to Kenney's address yesterday? If you haven't find it on net and listen it is well worth it.

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                        #26
                        then listen to the "moistly" incident or the "water box thingy" speech

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                          #27
                          Kenney's prediction of 25% unemployment looks grim.

                          Albertans are going to be dependent on the rest of Canada for support until the demand for oil returns to more normal levels.

                          Kenney is spending taxpayers dollars on pipelines. And considering asking for import tariffs and production cuts that don't really fit with the Conservative playbook. Desperate times call for government intervention even in Alberta.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by dfarms11 View Post
                            Upon reflection, the only way to make a comparison would be to spend the money putting seed , fert and spray into your crop and then tell the farmer to just leave it in the field, dont harvest it. Would you do that? No. Because even if grain prices tanked like oil has, you would still want to recoup some of your costs while not incurring more costs trying to make fields seedable next year
                            In most of Agriculture the marginal land gets seeded back to grass or not used when prices of grains drops enough. The low price of oil needs to idle the oil production in the marginal areas. The low prices of oil for the last 5 years has caused a large loss of jobs in Alberta and now the spin off industries like car sales, bars, etc are going to really feel the long tail of pain. I don't see oil ever coming back to its former glory. Going the way of Agriculture.

                            So what is Alberta going to do to employ all these previous oil patch workers? I have no idea. Hopefully technology jobs can expand.

                            Canada is also in trouble as the big transfer payments to support much of Canada from this oil money is going to dry up.

                            Lots of changes coming in the next 10 years. If you have modest amounts of money be prepared for the governments to pick your pockets hard. If you have lots of money, you have already left the country and moved your cash to safer places.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Alberta doesn't make transfer payments to the rest of Canada.

                              They do however pay a lot of federal tax because of high incomes and a high per capita GDP.

                              This downturn is going to hurt every Canadian. But Alberta will suffer more because they are so dependent on the oil industry.

                              Is this the the time for Alberta to get serious about diversifying its economy?

                              If Kenney wants to pick winners and losers with taxpayers money why doesn't he invest in more food processing and help build agriculture and food related jobs?

                              Why invest only in the tar sands that are not going to be a good long term investment?
                              Last edited by chuckChuck; Apr 9, 2020, 11:08.

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                                #30
                                or just start doing most of the business under the table like quebec

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