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    #16
    lots of sweet grown here that way but oftentimes it takes over the primary crop and makes harvest a bitch . I have saw it grow above canola the first year , no doubt worse here because of our wet problem most of the time

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      #17
      Originally posted by caseih View Post
      lots of sweet grown here that way but oftentimes it takes over the primary crop and makes harvest a bitch . I have saw it grow above canola the first year , no doubt worse here because of our wet problem most of the time
      I've grown hairy vetch as an under crop but not the sweet clover. Twice seeded sweetclover on it's own - first time it produced 8 ton/acre of silage by mid July, the second it was still a poor stand by August. That's why I'm interested in the concept versus actually doing it - far from having it figured out lol!

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        #18
        Heavy harrow with Valmar does a decent job with fall seeding, quick and gets some dirt around the seeds and when rain comes it grows.

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          #19
          Intercropping brings a whole new set of challenges with weed control, crop maturity, separating harvested grain. There are some herbicide group overlaps in different crops but the options are definitely limited and in some intercropping fields non-existent. By the time all those things that need to be done intercropping are done and paid for, as Braveheart stated, there has to be a net gain for the producer.

          Then row cropping of two crops in the same field, yikes.

          In this area it us hard to justify trying to get a cover crop established after harvest. Between time left in the growing season, time to do it, available moisture, equipment requirements and costs(seed,fuel,wear & tear,etc)....it makes it a hard practice to justify.

          The only drawbacks I see in a spring attempt to establish a nitrogen fixing cover/companion crop would be, establishment, competition for limited moisture resources(sometimes sometimes not), weed control. If the cover/companion crop has conditions after harvest to create alot of biomass what is the procedure to deal with it and will it affect seeding the following spring?

          I also agree with Braveheart's comment about moisture retention(if there isn't a lack of moisture to start with). And there better be adequate moisture available without causing establishment and/or yeild loss in the following crop. Besides retention I believe it dramatically helps with infiltration.

          I also truly believe this system won't work in areas that are typically dry or classified semi-arid, but were there is an abundance of moisture...look out.

          Another issue could be the propagation and support of disease development, unless someone one wants to make the claim a healthy soil microflora can overcome that possibility and risk.
          Last edited by farmaholic; Feb 12, 2019, 08:52.

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            #20
            On what I’d consider our shitty land which is hilly, heavy clay, little topsoil, and a bit of solonetzic; we have seen a remarkable improvement in productivity from switching to zero tillage and feeding cattle on the poorest spots. Something about cow poop increasing not only fertility but also microbial activity. I’m not a big fertilizer user as are most other guys that farm these hills because of lack of yield potential. That said, I never put any less on than I do but my yields have at least stabilized in poor years and increased in better years. My next experiment is to do an summer grazing on seeded annuals. My first attempt will be whatever seed I have in the bin fertilized with a balanced nutrient package. There is all these grazing blends you can buy but I have an issue spending $50 an acre on brassicas and what not. I intend to seed canola the following year and want a break in the rotation. Cows if managed right will return 80 to 90% of what they eat back to the ground. So if you do a grazing on crop land like this you are hopefully in a closed nutrient loop and building by adding fertilizer on top of added microbial activity.

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              #21
              Farma, how much different would your precipitation be to Gabe Browns at Bismark ND? He seems to have developed a very elaborate system that works to grow all kinds of crops.
              I think there will be considerable reduction in disease risk if you have healthy soil microflora.
              At the end of the day I don't see cover crops/intercropping etc being an ideal bolt-on to a straight grain operation devoid of livestock. I think you need the livestock to benefit from the cover crops etc - but then again I believe land management on the prairies can't be sustainable without livestock anyway.

              To Wilton Ranch's comment about cover crop seed cost - I'm with you on that - it's just the parasites moving in on the new system the same as they already do on conventional systems. It's already turned a lot of early adopters that I know off cover crops.
              Last edited by grassfarmer; Feb 12, 2019, 13:08.

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                #22
                Originally posted by grassfarmer View Post
                At the end of the day I don't see cover crops/intercropping etc being an ideal bolt-on to a straight grain operation devoid of livestock. I think you need the livestock to benefit from the cover crops etc -
                I think you right about the addition of livestock to get full benefits.

                There could be some snake oil biologicals coming for grain farmers to help create synergies between the soil and the parts of the crops we normally don't see, the roots below the soil surface.

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                  #23
                  Covercrop seed couldn’t you let it go to maturity and harvest some? Martin Entz from manitoba sure swears by it for organic producers. They are getting same yields as conventional only every other year.

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                    #24
                    If it's a diverse seed mix as they recommend presumably plant maturity would be varied - make for tricky harvesting.

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by jimmy View Post
                      Covercrop seed couldn’t you let it go to maturity and harvest some? Martin Entz from manitoba sure swears by it for organic producers. They are getting same yields as conventional only every other year.
                      That would probably work if an organic producer was under seeding a clover in a crop and letting it go to seed the following year. Any of these other crops may work like the brassicas. I’d wonder about chicory, plantain, or other exotic seeds not able to produce viable seeds in our climate. Biggest thing is to find what is reasonably priced or in your bin, readily available, and shows more benefit than letting whatever in the field goes wild for a green manure.

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                        #26
                        I know one guy here that interseeded sunflowers and hairy vetch very successfully. Had to separate the seed after harvest then sold the hairy vetch as common seed. A very profitable crop but it might not work as well every time.

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