Salute to the oil and gas industry

[cowman]

And the other option is kill them?
Well not my cup of tea...and I guess not really my problem as I won't ever be having a baby, so maybe I shouldn't be judgemental!
All I do know it is a dirty business and as human beings we should be disgusted with not doing more?
I am a religious person despite the fact I'm not into rolling up the aisles or something and I do believe someday we will be held accountable for how we lived our life? I do realize most people don't believe that and I don't impose my beliefs on anyone, but often I surely wonder what God thinks of his little souls being slaughtered before they get their kick at the can?
I certainly know I love my little grand children and would do whatever I could for them and would never consider killing them for whatever reason. Sorry if that sounds sappy? Just my opinion.

[ivbinconned]

I do not remember if I posted the following before (would realy be out of character to not have) but as to the subject of abortion the following should be put in the hands of every child bearing women in North America.

Danna Vale: 'Consigning the Lucky Country to the same trash can of history as Old Europe'
----------------------------------

Mark Steyn: Salute Danna Vale
The backbencher raises legitimate questions about demographic changes

February 16, 2006
MY interest in demography dates back to September 11, 2001, when a demographic group I hadn't hitherto given much thought managed to get my attention. I don't mean the, ah, unfortunate business with the planes and buildings and so forth, but the open cheering of the attacks by their co-religionists in Montreal, Yorkshire, Copenhagen and elsewhere. How many people knew there were fast-growing and culturally confident Muslim populations in Scandinavia?

Demography doesn't explain everything but it accounts for a good 90 per cent. The "who" is the best indicator of the what-where-when-and-why. Go on, pick a subject. Will Japan's economy return to the heady days of the 1980s when US businesses cowered in terror? Answer: No. Japan is exactly the same as it was in its heyday except for one fact: it stopped breeding and its population aged. Will China be the hyperpower of the 21st century? Answer: No. Its population will get old before it gets rich.

Check back with me in a century and we'll see who's right on that one. But here's one we know the answer to: Why is this newspaper published in the language of a tiny island on the other side of the earth? Why does Australia have an English Queen, English common law, English institutions? Because England was the first nation to conquer infant mortality.

By 1820 medical progress had so transformed British life that half the population was under the age of 15. Britain had the manpower to take, hold, settle and administer huge chunks of real estate around the planet. Had, say, China or Russia been first to overcome childhood mortality, the modern world would be very different.

What country today has half of its population under the age of 15? Italy has 14 per cent, the UK 18 per cent, Australia 20 per cent - and Saudi Arabia has 39 per cent, Pakistan 40 per cent and Yemen 47 per cent. Little Yemen, like little Britain 200 years ago, will send its surplus youth around the world - one way or another.

So, whether or not her remarks were "outrageous" (the Democrats' Lyn Allison), "insensitive" (the Greens' Rachel Siewert), "offensively discriminatory" (Sydney's Daily Telegraph) and "bigoted" (this newspaper), I salute Danna Vale. You don't have to agree with her argument that Australia's aborting itself out of recognition and that therefore Islam will inherit by default to think it's worth asking a couple of questions:

* Is abortion in society's interest?

* Can a society become more Muslim in its demographic character without also becoming more Muslim in its political and civil character?

The first one's easy: One can understand that 17-year-old Glenys working the late shift at Burger King and knocked up by some bloke who scrammed 10 minutes after conception may believe it's in her interest to exercise "a woman's right to choose", but the state has absolutely no interest in encouraging women in general to exercise that choice.

Quite the opposite: given that today's wee bairns are tomorrow's funders of otherwise unsustainable social programs, all responsible governments should be seriously natalist. The reason Europe, Russia and Japan are doomed boils down to a big lack of babies. Abortion isn't solely responsible for that but it's certainly part of the problem.

In attempting to refute Vale's argument, this newspaper praised the nation's maidenhood for lying back and thinking of Australia and getting the national fertility rate up from 1.73 births per woman in 2001 to 1.77, "well above rates in developed nations such as Italy, Spain, Japan, Germany and South Korea".

Well, pop the champagne corks! That's like saying Mark Latham's political prospects are better than Harold Holt's. The countries cited are going out of business. Seventeen European nations are now at what demographers call "lowest-low" fertility - 1.3 births per woman, the point at which you're so far down the death spiral you can't pull out.

In theory, those countries will find their population halving every 40 years or so. In practice, it will be quicker than that, as the savvier youngsters figure there's no point sticking around a country that's turned into one big undertaker's waiting room: not every pimply burger flipper is going to want to work himself into the ground to pay for new shuffleboard courts at the old folks' home.

In 2005, some 137 million babies were born around the globe. That 137 million is the maximum number of 20-year-olds who'll be around in 2025. There are no more, no other sources; that's it, barring the introduction of mass accelerated cloning (which is by no means an impossibility). Who that 137 million are will determine the character of our world.

The shape's already becoming clear. Take those Danish cartoons. Every internet blogger wants to take a stand on principle alongside plucky little Denmark. But there's only five million of them. Whereas there are 20 million Muslims in Europe - officially. That's the equivalent of the Danes plus the Irish plus the Belgians plus the Estonians.

You do the mathematics. If you want the reality of Europe in a nutshell, walk into a supermarket belonging to the French chain Carrefour. You'll be greeted by a notice in Arabic: "Dear Clients, We express solidarity with the Islamic and Egyptian community. Carrefour doesn't carry Danish products." It's strictly business: they have three Danish customers and a gazillion Muslim ones. Retail sales-wise, they know which way their bread's buttered and it isn't with Lurpak.

That's Vale's second point. If a society chooses to outsource its breeding, who your suppliers are is not unimportant. "I've heard those very silly remarks made about immigrants to this country since I was a child," says Allison.

"If it wasn't the Greeks, it was the Italians or it was the Vietnamese."

Those are races or nationalities. But Islam is a religion, and an explicitly political one - unlike the birthplace of your grandfather it's not something you leave behind in the old country. Indeed, for its adherents in the West, it becomes their principal expression - a Pan-Islamic identity that transcends borders.

Instead of a melting pot, there's conversion: A Scot can marry a Greek or a Botswanan, but when a Scot marries a Yemeni it's because the former has become a Muslim. In defiance of normal immigration patterns, the host country winds up assimilating with Islam: French municipal swimming baths introduce non-mixed bathing sessions; a Canadian Government report recommends the legalisation of polygamy; Seville removes King Ferdinand III as patron of the annual fiesta because he played too, um, prominent a role in taking back Spain from the Moors.

When the fastest-breeding demographic group on the planet is also the one most resistant to the pieties of the social-democratic state that's a profound challenge. Yes, yes, I know Islam is very varied, and Riyadh has a vibrant gay scene, and the Khartoum Feminist Publishing Collective now has so many members they've rented lavish new offices above the clitorectomy clinic. I don't claim to have all the answers, except when I'm being interviewed live on TV. But that's better than claiming, as most of Vale's disparagers do, that there aren't even any questions.

Where she goes wrong is in consigning the Lucky Country to the same trash can of history as Old Europe. For Australia, this is not hail and farewell - or, as the Romans put it, ave atque (Danna) vale. Japan is unicultural: a native population ageing and dying. Europe is bicultural: a fading elderly population yielding to a young surging Islam.

But Australia, like the US, is genuinely multicultural, at least in the sense that its immigration is not from a single overwhelming source. The remorseless transformation of Eutopia into Eurabia is already prompting the Dutch to abandon their country in record numbers, for Canada and New Zealand.

In the years ahead, North America and Australia will have the pick of European talent and a chance to learn the lessons of its self-extinction, as they apply to abortion and much else.

In the '70s and '80, Muslims had children - those self-detonating Islamists in London and Gaza and Bali are a literal baby boom - while westerners took all those silly books about overpopulation seriously. A people that won't multiply can't go forth or go anywhere. Those who do will shape the world we live in.

Mark Steyn, a columnist with the Telegraph Group, is a regular contributor to The Australian's Opinion page.

[ivbinconned]

cowman, if you read into my message that I support abortion then you better get new glasses. Thanks for the lecture, but you were preaching to the choir.

As I said, it would be wonderful if every child was wanted but that is not the case, so society must take up the slack and help those who are less fortunate and need our help.

Single mothers do have the opportunity for education, with childcare provided in many cases. In this community I know of at least one that has a couple of little ones that are picked up by a taxi every morning and taken to either daycare or play school while their mother goes to classes. She also has an advocate come into her home to help her with child coping skills, learning to shop and cook on a budget etc.


Now, cowman, I was a mom at 16, married of course, but nobody came and showed me how to cook, shop on a budget or cope with my kids.....these are services that I do not think are necessary.
I would suggest that before anyone makes the choice to become pregnant, unless they have no clue what causes it, they should be willing to take on the responsiblity of the child. By responsiblity, I don't mean just feeding and clothing the child but providing the emotional nuturing every child needs. When we look to the government to provide that nurturing, then of course, there are going to be kids in crisis. There is no substitute for a parent's love !!!!

[cowman]

Now emerald, I suspect you were born in a different time and place than today and hey there were different values back them? And yes, you probably cowboyed through and got the job done!
I became Daddy fairly young and without a doubt a shotgun might have been involved if I didn't pony up and assume my responsibilities!...hey I wasn't no angel.
Different times, different values...no two ways about it?
However....that little baby is not at fault here? Babies don't have any say in whether they should be born or not? They happen and in my opinion they are a gift from God!
The sick thing about abortion is there are so many people just CRAVING a baby...and the government just helps out and kills them! How about helping that little girl make a choice for life rather than murder? In the big picture it will be better for her...and one hell of a lot better for that baby? You know here I am...this old hard nosed redneck, but I will tell you this is one topic that really gets me going? In fact it is one topic that gets my old purse open! I truly believe it is evil and wicked to kill these little souls and I do what I can to help...maybe not enough...but I try?

[ivbinconned]

""The sick thing about abortion is there are so many people just CRAVING a baby...and the government just helps out and kills them! ""

And this is done in private (government supported) clinics!!

[ivbinconned]

If all pregnancies aborted were to run full term and result in a baby, how many do you think would be loved and cared for, vs ones that would be abused and likely born with fetal alcohol syndrome ???
Abortion isn't right, and certainly should never be a substitute for birth control but neither is abusing children, molesting them and subjecting them to life with parents or a parent that is using drugs, working the streets etc.

I will always remember the words of Mother Theresa, when she said' if you do not want these children, give them to me, I will love them'....and that is the way it should be, if someone does not want their baby, give it to someone who has been aching for a child for years and has love to give.

Again, I say the world ain't a fair place, but it does make my angry when people cannot and aren't willing to take responsibility for their actions.

I know the world has changed since I had my sons cowman, but responsibility for actions shouldn't have changed unless we as a society allow people to abdicate it !!!

[ivbinconned]

cowman, I can't let you get away with the 'cowboy up' comment. I KNEW how to cook long before I was 16, and I sure as hell knew how to watch my pennies because my folks had very few of them so it was either watch them or go hungry. As far as coping with kids was concerned, I always tell my sons that helping my dad train labrador retrievers for years gave me all the background I needed to cope with two sons !!! Not a heck of a lot different when it came to 'i'll try anything' attitude !!!

When I say that they always tell me to 'watch it RED, we are the ones who will choose your resthome !!'

Actually, I think I did okay, raised them for the most part alone while their Dad was away working in the 'patch', and they turned out not too bad if I do say so myself. Of course that was when ' spare the rod and spoil the child' was still in vogue !!

Now, I'll get a lecture for comparing my kids to retrievers and beating them I suppose !!!!!!!! LOL

[Horse]

IVBC I agree get them women back in the bedroom where they belong Just kiding but it is hard to have children if the wemonfolk dont agree. We had 3 and I wish we would have had more but it was the same then as now how do you afford them when you are at the bottom of the food chain and every one above takes the lions share of the money, when I have to pay 85 /hr for mechanics and .90 for gas and on and on.
Emerald you mention when when your husbsnd worked oil patch did he make anywhere near where those people make today. I doubt it as I am much the same age as you I think and yes we made a little more than working in town but mostly from the fact we put in long hrs. Anyway I could do a lot better if I didnt have to pay everyone else what they think they are worth.
In short I think some are taking more out of the pot than they deserve.

[ivbinconned]

First of all Horse...there is NO pot!!When you understand that, you will be happier.

As to your first comments...remember that old song "those who rock the cradel rule the world"...in retrospect and observing the world today...how true.

I think you are mistaken about our capacity to raise children today. It is a "choice", to limit the numbers made possible by science. Past generations, with far less resourses and modern convieninces than we have today raised families of 8 ,10, 12 kids,turning out productive people.

As a women, now 60, told me just a few years ago...no matter how many you have you will always find away to feed them.

Now if your talking about buying them all that the world has to offer..you will have a problem, if you can afford it ...or not!

[ivbinconned]

Horse I swear you must be at least 100,so I am no where near there.

I assure you my husband made a lot less years ago when he was pipeline welding but then a new, fully decked out welding truck cost less than half of what it does today.

I guess you must be a half empty kind of guy horse, I'm sorry, I don't mean to be nasty,but I don't have time to feel sorry for myself because people make more money than I do, get more surface revenue than I do, and stay awak nights because of the price of gasoline and power.

The way I see it, gas is high but if I want to go anywhere I better pay the piper and head down the highway. Power is high too but it sure beats the hell out of sitting by the light of a coal oil lamp and having no refrigeration etc.
Why horse, you couldn't even complain to us on the computer if you didn't have power.....

Like my dear departed husband used to say...'suck it up cupcake, cause thats the way it is'.
Now, he didn't say that to me very often because he had a habit of wanting to eat and have his clothes washed now and then !!!!!!!!!!!

[cowman]

Well emerald I always said raising kids is just like raising a dog. You beat them when they need it and give them a treat when they desrve it! Now I will admit I wasn't much into the beating part but my wife sure was! Which might just be why my kids think I'm the real meal deal and don't really have a lot to do with their mother? Or it might be that I treated them like adults since they were little?
I remember the middle girl was going off to school and she didn't want to wear a toque or something. I said well if you don't want to then don't, you'll look real pretty with no ears! She didn't and her ears peeled some...but I noticed the next day she wore a hat! I also remember my youngest was about 4 and thought she should be able to ride the lawnmower wherever she wanted. I said no you can't and she said why not? I said well you are just a little person and you don't make the decisions. You don't run the world. She said, I think little people should run the world, very defiant! Well I found that funny and said well maybe you are right! Anyway they all lived somehow! And here I am today buying my 5 year old grandson his own quad... the times do change!

[cowman]

Silly old granpas buying five year olds quads must be the 'in' thing with granpas making big bucks in the oilpatch !!!!
Seems we have one in our family so all the WOMEN in the family watch in horror as our five year old Evil Kneivel rips across the field on his very OWN quad. Lord give me strength !!!!
What will be left to buy the kid next, of course, how silly of me, a DIRT BIKE, Snow Machine etc.

Sure makes John Deere and Tonka toys look pretty boring.

Funny thing is that the little guy prefers to have someone read to him and he is looking forward to camping out with GRANNY in her backyard this summer.
Now, I don't know how I am getting talked into this but in my view its quality time that no money spent on a quad will buy !!!!! So there GRANPA !~!!
I actually regret the times I gave the kids a whack, diplomacy would have worked better.

Any good dog trainer will tell you, that hitting a dog does absolutely nothing to build trust and respect !!!

My border collie pup is coming along very well, she is three months old tomorrow and a light tap on the butt with the fly swatter is all it takes.

I never yell at her, just am firm and if she really TESTS me, I take her head in my hands and look her in the eye and scold her. Works wonders !! We have only had one DISCUSSION regarding my work glove being hidden under the loveseat !!!

[cowman]

I have had a few border collies in my lifetime, but don't have a dog anymore. The boy has a red heeler, who isn't overly bright, but sure can move those cows up a chute! The best dog I ever had was an Australian shepherd.
I always found border collies so darned sensitive they would get all pouty and aloof if you yelled at them? They were also so darned smart it was scary? I had one that probably had a higher IQ than I did and she was a very good dog but sure was funny. She actually would only eat if I fed her...wouldn't eat anything anyone else gave her! If you yelled at her she would sulk for a week and have her nose out of joint!
And I will admit I would never get a male dog or in the case of a horse a mare? I don't know what it is but a male dog or horse just are dumb as hell!
Its like I told one neighbor: Male dogs are not worth the powder to blow them to hell...and I suspect that might apply to most human beings as well! LOL

[cowman]

agreed on the gender of dogs and horses. Give me a good gelding anyday, and a female dog that is spayed really settles down and is a darn good solid top hand !!

My pup has lots of energy but she is darn smart. Both her parents are working dogs and the mother seems to be pretty level headed.

The neighbour had a collie that is very sensitive, she never wags her tail and when she is called she comes on her belly. I have a feeling that someone was pretty tough with her when she was young.

I like a good bold dog that never sneaks around......usuing your analgy cowman kind of like a good man I guess..... LOL!!!

[cowman]

Well lets not talk about geldings! Gives me these awful ideas when you relate that to humans!
I am a "liberated man"!!!!
When you have five sisters who can beat the hell out of you and probably did a lot better than you in life...it is a humbling experience?
Luckily the old boy was a natural born chauvanist and bestowed most of his blessings on yours truly...albeit with a lot of misgivings! And in reality I shouldn't even say that...he was pretty generous all around...but I was the dumbie who got stuck holding the bag at home!
And by the way, I have a very good relationship with all my sisters...but even today I wish he could have cranked out another boy!