My Conversation with John De Pape

[agstar77]

Years ago I met a farmer who basically believed that. “I don’t care if the CWB doesn’t get good prices - as long as we all get the same”.

you know what they say about socialism - it’s the equitable distribution of poverty.

Actually that's communism, not socialism . You have your isms wrong. Currently most democratic countries can be described as democratic socialist. That does not not mean equitable distribution of wealth. Socialism is thrown around as a whipping boy. I am more concerned that all producers receive price that give returns more than the cost of production. I suppose they did teach that at econ 120.

[blackpowder]

I am still wondering where the extra profit is coming from. Perhaps the grain companies will give up some of their profits so these marketing gurus can gain more. Maybe they will raise prices to the customer. Perhaps there is a new math that you have discovered where 2 plus to equals 5. I am not saying some could gain but that gain has to come from somewhere. Also could you explain the 25 a tonne extra compared to who?

Do you buy consumables on sale?
Do you shop around for expenses?
Do you buy anything at auction?
Do you always buy the most expensive option?
Do you buy and sell stocks?
Have a pension?
Shop borrowing rates?
Similar concepts.
Whether or not you know the rules, you're still in the game. The game doesn't care. At the least we need to understand how it works.
You don't have to be a wizard or even use many tools.
I can't emphasize enough that we are essentially all grain companies.
IF 75% of actual sales are in the bottom third, it's really no different than buying everything at full retail.
You have a choice. A responsibility.
If all sales moved to the middle of the year's range, it wouldn't cost the end users of our grain a penny more than it does now. They use the same tools.
Otherwise we may as well take it all at once to town like we used to do with cattle.
The worst legacy to leave the next generation would be the ignorance of the rules of money and to see themselves only as victims.
Convinced they're always getting screwed even if they don't know how or by who. Sound familiar?
I don't know what else to say except I wish you the best all the same.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

And what happens when the price on the world market is less than your cost of production. How do you propose to achieve your goal?

And what about your neighbor who is far more efficient than you and has a much lower cost of production? Do you want the price to be above his cost of production or your cost of production?

[AlbertaFarmer5]

And a follow-up question.
If we somehow guarantee Canadian producers a price above our cost of production, will that make us more or less efficient and competitive with the rest of the world?

Keeping in mind that dairy Farmers who are guaranteed a price above their cost of production currently require a 300% tariff on imported product so that they can compete in the domestic market, and only in the domestic market.

[blackpowder]

Years ago I met a farmer who basically believed that. “I don’t care if the CWB doesn’t get good prices - as long as we all get the same”.

you know what they say about socialism - it’s the equitable distribution of poverty.

Or is it more like Pavlov's dog?

[blackpowder]

He is the kind who will be replaced by A.I. That is the new frontier that will be used to formulate decisions.
.

Yes, the old board may as well been AI, at least there would've been some intelligence and learning.
But seriously, I don't know enough about AI. There have long been automatic trading algorithms.
Perhaps this needs serious safeguarding.
Open outcry price discovery relies on a crowd of participants with different needs and opinions, along with some human chaos theory. AI trading?, you're probably right, but I hope not exclusively.
I should always be able to buy or sell GE or wheat myself. The same way war or peace has to be a human decision. Chaos works. Dunno. Good question agstar.

[blackpowder]

John.
Am I wrong with my theory regarding if all farm sales were in the middle of the year's range; it wouldn't cost the end buyers any more than it does now? Stretching my brain a little and didn't want to be full of scat.

[jdepape]

Actually that's communism, not socialism . You have your isms wrong. Currently most democratic countries can be described as democratic socialist. That does not not mean equitable distribution of wealth. Socialism is thrown around as a whipping boy. I am more concerned that all producers receive price that give returns more than the cost of production. I suppose they did teach that at econ 120.

Not that it really matters, but...

Communism is a political theory leading to a society in which all property is publicly owned and each person works and is paid according to their abilities and needs.

Whereas, the main goal of socialism is to create a more equal society by distributing wealth and resources more evenly among the population, and to meet social needs rather than focusing solely on profit.

While you are concerned that "all producers receive a price that gives returns" I am concerned with the imbalance of market power - shift it and producers will have greater probability to get "returns" - and then some. (It's what I taught when I taught in the Ag faculty at U of M.)
?

[agstar77]

Not that it really matters, but...

Communism is a political theory leading to a society in which all property is publicly owned and each person works and is paid according to their abilities and needs.

Whereas, the main goal of socialism is to create a more equal society by distributing wealth and resources more evenly among the population, and to meet social needs rather than focusing solely on profit.

While you are concerned that "all producers receive a price that gives returns" I am concerned with the imbalance of market power - shift it and producers will have greater probability to get "returns" - and then some. (It's what I taught when I taught in the Ag faculty at U of M.)
?

That's after my time. That sounds like a good theory. So how do you get marketing power when the grain industry is basically an oligopoly.

[blackpowder]

The power of one.