market manipulation glyphosate

[stubblejumper]

If FNA wasn't making money they wouldn't be in the chemical bussiness.

[wd9]

Technically they are not in the chem business, they are in the paperwork of oui business, at least officially as of today. Responsibility of the product lies with the signee of the paperwork (the farmer).

The main problem with OUI is chem registration data sets. PMRA can't access those data sets free of charge but the OUI act assumes they will. Also OUI assumed very small importation of a product which would not be held to the same reg criteria as a chem sold by a dealer in Canada. That in itself is a problem. Let alone compound the issue by spraying half the country with an OUI product, then the holder of the data set who never got compensated can go after PMRA with a vengence. PMRA then potentially pays the cost. They are in the registration business not the chem business.

Issues around OUI are complicated and the new proposal is being discussed very closely with good representation from a lot of the key players. From the growers side focus on new legislation that provides access and a competitive environment is key. Also, arbitrated compensation and time sensitive costing for data sets. The latter not being part of the original discussion of the OUI task force. It is now.

PMRA and Health Canada want chems that are registered like the rest, minimizing litigation.

Crop life members want compensation for data sets.

Horticulture wants faster access to the minor chems.

Somewhere in the middle will be the end result.

The following motion was passed at the Ag HofCSC "That the Minister of Health responsible for the Pest Management Regulatory Agency maintain the existing own use program fot the next two crop years while working toward the implementation of a better and more producer-friendly Grower Requested Own Use Program"

Hope this helps a bit with the discussion.

[poorboy]

WD9,

It is a very poorly organized country that we live in, if the data sets are presented to our government for initial registration, then when the patent runs out the PMRA can't access those same data sets.

FNA is just the forerunner of the generic chemical importation business. If the OUI program was launched in full force, the people at FNA would be out of work. There are lots of businesses that would sprout up and handle the generic chemicals to farmers. FNA has had the vision to get the ball rolling and introduce farmers to some competition.

As I see it the whole problem with the OUI program is that it is a import direct to farm program. There is no chemical dealer involved, no chemical reps, no warehousing, etc. NO MIDDLEMEN are making MONEY. It is very hard for Canadian chemical dealers to compete with this. Local chemical companies will probably be the ones handling the importation and sales of generic chemicals in the future. This would allow farmers to have some chemical savings and dealers to have some profit as well.

Thank God that some generic chemical has made its way into Canada, so farmers here can see what the rest of the world is truely paying for product. It obviously is a game of pricing the product to what the market will bear.

Amazing to me how the local glyphosate market dropped in price on low end glyphosate, and then when it was too late to get delivery of the Clearout 41, there was no supply of local product to be had. But there was lots of the higher priced (higher margin?) glyphosate to be had. This shell game is bad for farmers. All the more reason for the OUI or programs like it to be in place. IT HELPS CREATE COMPETITION!!!!!

[sawfly]

crop duster why would you worry about the mann brothers makeing a little money thru fna?

when they have saved every farmer in canada 2-3$/liter whether they have used clearout or not.
you would prefer the big companies to make 4 times as much?

Agricity paid monsanto for the data sets, in an agreed settlement.
the USA( unlike canada) does have some competition law. To foster competition. the courts would have imposed a settlement, if monsanto wouldnt deal.

you would have had cheap glyphosate 12 years ago thru focus on inputs if canada had a simmilar law.

if the GROU gets the go ahead we wil never have access to reasonably priced generics from offshore.

can you imangine the public outrage if in other industrys , say oil, if the borders around north amercia were closed.
and consumers had to pay 2 - 4 times as much than the rest of the world.

[wd9]

Sawfly re: never have generics.

Is that the sky falling?

You will if you have someone to register it, and pay for the arbitrated and resonably compensated data. In the future no doubt it will be companies like FNA doing this. There is nothing to stop UFA from doing it or any other farm cooperative. Even AU could do it if they wanted to.

The key is some company is going to have to register it either by creating new data (expensive) or buying rights to existing data (compensatory).

Patents are protection of the idea or process. The data is the stickler here and is not patented, but owned. You can't copy a piece of music because it is more than 20 years old. It isn't patented, it is owned - copyrighted. You can if the authour lets you however or if the owner is reasonably compensated. Reasonable arbitrated compensation rules are going to be a big discussion.

You can't expect PMRA to approve a chemical for use in Canada if the registration data isn't used and/or payed for, or bypassing registration rules that others - like crop life companies - have to do.

In the mean time until this is all settled and understood, it is going to get ugly with this file.

As a farmer, access to price competitive international products registered in Canada would be what I would want. In order to register those patent lapsed products, access and compensation to data, and a company to register needs to happen. The system is this way in the US.

No reason it can't be mirrored here in Canada, and would be far more effective than OUI.

[cropduster]

NEWS RELEASE
for immediate release December 15, 2006

OUI Task Force sees Opportunities for Producers

(OTTAWA) - Pulse Canada, Canadian Hort Council and the Grain Growers of
Canada, today announced that the Own Use Imports (OUI) Task Force is rapidly
closing in on final proposals to harmonize a number of Canadian and American
pesticide rules and regulations.

"All aspects of our industry, from producers to manufacturers have been
working on solving our differences and we are pleased at the progress to
date," said Gordon Bacon. "As producers we want to see the both a fair price
discovery mechanism and yet incentives for the industry to want to register
new products and new uses in Canada."

The OUI Task Force met recently in Ottawa to evaluate and further develop
new ideas for own use importations, registration of generics, and the
creation of product labels that would apply jointly in Canada, the US and
Mexico. (NAFTA)

Eight active ingredients (as well as two newly proposed ingredients) have
been proposed for NAFTA labeling. Once implemented, cross-border shopping
without the need for permits will be possible. Our grower organizations
created the short list of needed chemicals which would provide needed cost
savings to producers.

A new generics system has been proposed for Canada by 2008. If this system
functions well, Canadian farmers could have a rapid registration system for
generics that satisfies the need for price discipline. This is a dramatic
improvement over the system currently available.

The Pest Management Regulatory Agency has volunteered to accept and review
US data on a pilot basis on 72 actives; also known as Project 914. If this
program proves workable, over 200 minor-uses could follow in the coming
years.

'It is important that we see this process through to the finish," said
Gordon Bacon, CEO of Pulse Canada. "I think all of us on the Task Force have
worked proactively to come to solutions for the overall good of the
agricultural industry in Canada, and I would like to recognize Crop Life for
moving a fair ways towards the interests of the farmers."

"There is a lot of opportunity out there for Canadian producers to have
access to more and better products to help them in their farming operations
and the issues we are resolving will take us a long way down that road to
being competitive within our North American marketplace," said Richard
Phillips, Executive Director of the Grain Growers of Canada.

-30-
Contact:
Gordon Bacon Craig Hunter Richard
Phillips
Pulse Canada Canadian Hort Council Grain Growers of
Canada
204-925-4452 519-831-5866 613-875-1795

[sawfly]

wow were are harmonizeing our rules with the amercians


what about the rest of the world


how about allowing chinnese companies ( that are willing to pay their share of compensation for data, regestration costs) into the market.

why under grou should a generic man. have to be affiliated with the current licence holder and manufactured in north amercia.

thats like saying you cant buy a toyota unless its built in N amer. and GM says you can.

whats the problem, I thought the majority of the posters on this site were in favor of free enterprise and an open market. i guess not .

sounds like the pluse growers, and the grain growers (whose ever mouth peice they are) have sold the farmer out!

[cropduster]

Sawfly,better reread the piece.....Doesn`t talk about groui,it`s talking about oui.

[rbrunel]

Ok let me get this straight.
-CWB monopoly bad
-Monsanto monopoly on glyphosate ingredient bad
-Syngenta's pantent on Acheive ends, new patent on Axial Bad.
-Cargill, ADM bad
hmmmm. only difference is CWB is a farmer monopoly. Maybe there is a good point here. Work at distmantling the non farmer monopolies and work to improve the farmer monopolies.
Industry works to keep there monopoly through patents to extract as much as they can from farmers. With colaboration and cooperation this should be the same with the CWB?..right?..
I think your discussion thread has just pointed out something....Monopolies do work. Now why wouldn't we just fix ours instead of distroying it. OH YEAH,...farmers can't agree on anything..and it is my god given right to do what I want.

SHEESH guys...you complain about the monopolies both ways. sounds like a case of anti bi-monopoly.

[cropduster]

Where do you get the load about the CWB being a farmer monopoly??Love`m or hate`m, Strahl just PROVED ,it`s NOT a farmer monopoly.If it was, why didn`t/don`t the BOD of the CWB overrule Strahl and replace Measner.What don`t you understand????????