Milling Oats vs Milling Wheat

[agstar77]

I believe in the rule of law . Since the laws in this country were drawn up by duly elected representatives, I feel they should be upheld . If that means jail or fines so be it. If you wish to change the laws through legitimate means go for it. It seems the majority of Canadians do not share your views since the Reform party/ Conservatives can't get a majority. The other means would be to run for the board of directors and change the system . Since you can't seem to do either of these just stand there and throw stones at fellow producers who are trying to get the best returns possible under difficult circumstances. I could give you proof that pooled marketing works but I don't believe you are interested in hearing that or believe it. Yours is an idealogical fervor about marketing whereas I am ambivalent to the marketing system but I haven't seen anything better proposed. If I thought we would be better off under your scenario I would support you but haven't proved your case that we would be better off. The risk of destroying the present system is greater than some hope of a reward of premiums for a handful of large producers near the U.S. border. The real problem is the depressed state of ag commodities and high input costs. Being able to truck grain across the border without a permit really isn't a priority. My family has farmed here for 65 years and I have seen the highs and lows . T4 is right if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.

[TOM4CWB]

Agstar;

Well said.

May bring to your attention that in the bean industry in Alberta we have a Pool (Agricore United Bean Plant) that works very well on contracted acres.

No Monopoly.

Any other Bean contractor or Marketer can come into Alberta and contract acres for themselves... without those bean growers being threatened with jail time IF they contract to alternative non-pooling agencies.

We co-exist without a problem.

THis is the real issue.

Now how can we get to the bean situation of market choice with freedom?

[TOM4CWB]

Parsley;

My brother's pastor had a word of wisdom yesterday!

There are two ways that will usually end a conversation;

1. Compare them to A Hitler in some way;

2. Judge them and Tell them they are going to either Heaven or Hell.

Wise words we all need to heed!

[agstar77]

As I said before we did have a voluntary pooling system of sorts when there were real farmer operated Pools. Now you may be pooling with a multinational such as ADM. This seems to be working for you although since we can't look at ADM's books we don't know what percentage they taking not that it matters. The point is under this scenario we could pool with ADM Cargill , SWP ,Bunge etc. Each of these pools would compete against one another with the same product. How would they compete ? Better service to their customers, the buyers? Or maybe a cheaper price after grain handlers work on volume not price. Who would the sell to ? Their own subsidiaries in the milling business . Do you see the conflict? We really don't have any leverage over these operations as individual farmers unless we produce something they can't get somewhere else at a lower price. Would they be nice to us and get the highest return possible? Until you can answer that question, I think I will stick to the present system.

[agstar77]

In Parsley's books I'll end up in the hot place as a non believer LOL.

[Vader]

parsley, I think it is simply inappropriate to bring either A. Hitler or mention his atrocities in a civilized debate. Why did you do that? Maybe you should have attended you brothers pastors sermon. Perhaps you could actually learn something.

[silverback]

What are you two pro-board guys afraid of? If the board is the best "company" to market my grain, why doesn't it operate like a company instead of forced pooling? If I want to try and sc**** out a few extra pennies for myself if I can, why throw so many obstacles in my path?

Agstar, you just don't want to have to work any harder than putting in a crop. That is great, but why would you object to me finding a market for myself? That is insanity, and it is not freedom.

Vader you only want to maintain your job and pension. I have a feeling you would say that I should just quit farming and go somewhere else to work if I don't like this system. Well I could say the same thing to you. Did you ever think that maybe changing the way the system works might open up some opportunites for yourself and your family that aren't there now? If you are so good at what you do, is there not a great opportunity in a free market?

What do you kind of guys think you are saving me from? And who says it is your job to do it? If I will go broke because the big bad corporations will enslave me, why would you care? You don't care if other farmers go to jail, so why would you care if I go t___s up?
Then you can come and attend my farm sale and say "See, he tried to go against the duly elected representatives and failed. They do know what is best for us in this the designated area."

I have asked these questions before and I have yet to hear a valid response other than "that's just the way it is,too bad." Now that's good debate.

[agstar77]

I f you think you are such a good marketer maybe you should get a job with CWB and show them how it is done. Maybe you could get a posting in the far east, learn chinese and make us all a higher return, I could live with that and I would be willing to pay you a big fat salary. But I guess that wouldn't work because you only want a few select good marketers to get a higher return and screw everyone else. When these last few guys control all the production it will be a lot easier for you to make a living. But heh who needs neighbors.

[TOM4CWB]

Agstar77;

Would the Gov. of Canada ever allow us to maximise returns with a monopoly?

NEVER.

Why you ask?

Just think what would happen to supply management and livestock producers if the CWB put a BIG feed barley, Feed Wheat and Malt Barley program that hedged $3.00US corn into our CDN "designated area" feed markets.

Simple.

Livestock producers could not afford to compete and would be destroyed in the process.

This is why the monopoly MUST price daily, in a pooled base, with the majority of grain pricing in the bottom half of the market. The monopoly cannot benefit grain growers in a substantial way or it will reck the value added ag economy... by design.

[parsley]

Good Morning Agstar,
Sorry, I was away, but I wanted to respond to you, because you are a fellow farmer.

You've said it. You'll use the policy or regulation to hide behind so that you can justify your actions. Defending your common good. At all costs. I'm disappointed with you.

It was policy/regulation that didn't allow women to vote. The Legislation didn't even allow women to be people.

Thinking Canadians didn't quote the regulation at that time, agstar, they looked at what was actually occurring, and that is why change occured. (Would you have quoted your wife the regulation?)

Policy/regulation/legislation isn't always legitimate and we have to hope that our fellow Canadains can actually differentiate between right and wrong. Thinking people do not support what is insupportable.

The farmers who have carefully thought about the consequences of warped CWB policy no longer think being jailed for selling your own grain is supportable. You do.

You say you support the CWB jailing farmers, the CWB raiding farmers' homes in the middle of the night, the CWB fining farmers, the CWB intimidating farmers, the CWB chaining and shackling farmers, for heaven's sake. In the name of preserving the single desk, of course. The CWB's history of these accelerating tactics is troublesome to many Canadians, whilst you defend them.

What's next? Beatings in some remote Northern Manitoba camp, in the name of the common good, of course? Where does it end? We have to look to history for the answer, so we can recognize the symptoms that signal when the 'common good/CWB single desk fervor' has run amuck.

The CWB is a case study on the common-good gone bad. When the CWB has to expropriate and spend $1Million of farmers money every year to try and convince those same farmers that the CWB is working on their behalf, it's symptomatic of an organization rotting from within.

Another day, another farmer turns away from the CWB's treatment of their fellow famers. Most farmers recognizeright from wrong.

I have carefully watched what you have chosen vader, and I have have, indeed, learned things from you.

Parsley