Laurentian Elites

[parsley]

Good article in the NP today basically arguing that eastern policies are a direct way to restrain rising western economic and population power. Of course we all know that. Climate change is just the cover.

https://outline.com/WX5YEP Meet the Laurentian Elite, the mediocre masters of Canada

While 200 years ago, the periphery could be treated as a frontier to be managed, such an attitude today is fatal. The West now comprises almost a third of Canada’s population, compared with less than 23 per cent for Quebec, and the former is by far our most demographically dynamic region. Annual West-East fiscal transfers have run for decades and now total hundreds of billions of dollars. While Toronto finance is still formidable, and central Canada has more jobs in that sector (about 66 per cent) than its share of the population, corporate clout has shifted West, if slowed by the oil crash of 2014.

The Laurentian response to shifting population and money has been restrictive, envious and resentful, with ignorance and neglect replaced by targeted aggression. Under a cloak of green, the federal Liberals have written one generally supportive rulebook for economic development in the East, and a decidedly unfriendly one — including the West-Coast oil tanker ban and Bill C-69, the “no more pipelines” bill — for the West.

At one time, flour mills dotted the Western landscape. Employment high. Robin Hood Flour Mill in Saskatoon shipped value added products to Eastern Canada. Bran. Flour. Cereal. Cookbooks! Robin Hood Flour Mills shut down in the West and moved east. And so did the jobs.

It was a planned strategic move. Legislation can shut down any lucrative value added industry, (whilst keeping the railroads greased), and transfer it to Eastern Canada, just as the Federal Govt has done with our oil industry during this decade.

And Ontario and Quebec will continue to do the same with lucrative value added Western industries in the future, because their votes can beat our votes every time. There is no Confederative-fairness, and never will be; the Eastern Canadian attitude is written in stone “Suck it up, Western Cupcakes”.

The West needs its’ own legislation. Which comes with a divorce, doesn’t it. Norway amicably divorced Sweden, and now they pass their own legislation. And it’s working just fine. Let us learn from their divorce terms. Pars

For your review-pleasure:

http://www.mhs.mb.ca/docs/mb_history/18/grainrates.shtml

[Oliver88]

Chuck . . . .When you say Norwegians are some of the highest taxed citizens in the world but are still able to put away over a trillion in savings, its a bit of a circular argument. Because of high taxes from it's citizens, the government can use that revenue to finance their day to day expenses without dipping into the oil revenue ( taxes and licensing from oil companies ) which fuels their Oil Fund.

So in a indirect way Norwegians are taking money out of their wallets and filling the Oil Fund.

That didn't happen in Alberta.

Secondly, Norway doesn't have pay some of their tax revenue to Ottawa.

That happens in Alberta.

Also as mentioned Norway separated from their “Swedish Laurentian Elites”.
Norway has a large coastline touching the Atlantic Ocean!! Pipelines wouldn’t be an issue if Alberta had ocean access.

[chuckChuck]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Sweden

Sweden has a strong economy as well. More diverse than Norways.

"The economy of Sweden is a developed export-oriented economy aided by timber, hydropower, and iron ore. These constitute the resource base of an economy oriented toward foreign trade. The main industries include motor vehicles, telecommunications, pharmaceuticals, industrial machines, precision equipment, chemical goods, home goods and appliances, forestry, iron, and steel. Traditionally a modern agricultural economy that employed over half the domestic workforce, today Sweden further develops engineering, mine, steel, and pulp industries that are competitive internationally, as evidenced by companies like Ericsson, ASEA/ABB, SKF, Alfa Laval, AGA, and Dyno Nobel.[23]

Sweden is a competitive and highly liberalized, open market economy. The vast majority of Swedish enterprises are privately owned and market-oriented, combined with a strong welfare state involving transfer payments involving up to three-fifths of GDP.[24][25] In 2014 the percent of national wealth owned by the government was 24%.[26]"

[chuckChuck]

Also as mentioned Norway separated from their “Swedish Laurentian Elites”.
Norway has a large coastline touching the Atlantic Ocean!! Pipelines wouldn’t be an issue if Alberta had ocean access.

Pipelines aren't an issue in Texas and their oil industry is slowing as well! Hmmmm. What could the problem be? Here is a hint. Its not trudeau.

[SASKFARMER]

In chuckys world, the CWB worked.

LET THAT SINK IN AND TELL ME HOW WELL HE UNDERSTANDS THE WORLD>

[Sheepwheat]

Sounds like you don't know how financing is done in this country. No native assets can be used as collateral as the Indian Act forbids it. So they have no path to financing it on their own. No bank will touch them without collateral. No Canadian corporation will partner with them without them putting up security.

Basically another deal with the govt as subsidizer and guarantor. Bought for twice the price, sold for half and backed with pixie dust by Trudeau.

Evil Harper wanted to give Indians the right to property ownership and collateral. People like chuck wailed and screamed and he had to shelf the idea. Kind of like when he mandated accountability for reserves. Then the chuckites wailed, and was one of the first things overturned by the feminist groper.

[SASKFARMER]

Ah, texas still gets what 40 a barrel more than us chuck.

TRUDEAU IS THE CANCER THAT IS DESTROYING CANADA>

PERIOD>

[chuckChuck]

The oil industry is still growing in Saskatchewan and Alberta and it is still in both provinces. Hasn't gone anywhere.

The integrated oil companies are still making good profits off refined and value added products.

Many oil companies are laying off workers to improve the bottom line and reward shareholders.

[dmlfarmer]

Another side to this argument that needs consideration. This was written by an Alberta petroleum engineer:


I am an engineer. I work in the oil patch, and I have for decades.I run two companies and I'm an economic policy wonk. More specifically, I am an automation engineer. If you used to work in the oil patch and you don't any more, then I am your enemy, not the government. I have been helping oil companies reduce maintenance and operating labour cost per barrel for 20 years. And business is booming. It has never been this strong. Alberta companies are spending millions - billions - of dollars to replace people with computers. If you look around, you will see that companies are laying people off and maintaining production.

The oil industry is in fact late to automate. It's about 10 years behind manufacturing, and 20+ years behind refining and chemicals. 20 years ago there were 315,000 people employed in forestry, pulp and paper, etc. in Canada. Now there are 186,000. Those jobs are never coming back.

The problem with oil industry employment is structural, and it's global. If our companies don't automate, they will go under, because other companies are automating too. And lots of companies outside Alberta are producing oil at a loss. It's a case of he who bleeds to death last, wins.

This isn't the government's fault. All the government can do is help people adapt - by upgrading and adding more value in the province, by helping people retrain, and by diversifying the economy.

Yes, the carbon tax is annoying. It's supposed to be. We need to reduce our CO2 emissions. Other countries are implementing carbon taxes or other ways of reducing carbon intensity. Including China. Guess what: automation is a big part of how companies can drive down their CO2 emissions. Been doing that for a long time, too.

The oil price dropped in 2014. I was laid off in January 2015, before the last election. This is not the NDP's fault. It is the fault of an industry that was not prepared for a change, 40 years of government that coddled them, and a long, happy ride. An oil boom is not your birthright. Nothing is going to bring back the oil boom. It is time to adapt.

Jason Kenney's policy statements are, by and large, red meat for the angry and uninformed. The NDP policies are intelligent and have resulted in investment by companies in diversifying our economy by adding value in the province. Their investment in infrastructure has kept people working and reduced our infrastructure debt at a lower cost than would have been possible during the boom.

Whether you trust Jason Kenney - in spite of two concurrent RCMP investigations into his nomination - or think his antics to avoid voting on the bubble law indicate support of women's right to choose, or think he supports marginalized kids, his economic policies are going to do a lot of damage to Alberta.

Even if you are ignoring the UCP's hard-right social leanings, it's worth knowing that their election is going to hit all of us in the pocketbook for a long time

[SASKFARMER]

Go to Estevan Chuck and tell the workers what you believe then go south to ND and have the same conversation. If you make it out of Estevan that is.

Explain chuck how Canada loses 70000 jobs and thats a good thing and the USA gaines 266000 jobs and its bad.

Just asking CWB Chuck.

[chuckChuck]

Ah, texas still gets what 40 a barrel more than us chuck.

TRUDEAU IS THE CANCER THAT IS DESTROYING CANADA>

PERIOD>

https://oilprice.com/oil-price-charts

WTI is 59.20 per barrel.

Western Canadian Select which is a lower grade is 38.43

Thats only $20 difference and Suncor, Husky and Federated are making good money off lower priced feedstock

Oil Price Differentials Explained: Why Alberta crude sells at a deep discount

https://www.oilsandsmagazine.com/market-insights/crude-oil-pricing-differentials-why-alberta-crude-sells-at-deep-discount-to-wti


"Although crude prices largely rise and fall together, there can be significant price differences between the different streams, depending on the type of crude (quality), supply and demand fundamentals (marketability) and costs to transport the crude to the final customer (logistics).
Quality is by far least important variable, particularly with respect to API gravity. Sulphur content and acidity are more important drivers of the quality discount.
About two-thirds of Canada's exports (3.5 million bbl/day) are shipped to the Midwest via Enbridge's Mainline. Having a single large buyer of Canadian crude, particularly heavy crude, reduces Alberta's ability to compete for higher prices.
Since Midwest refineries are largely at capacity, incremental heavy oil from the oil sands must find another buyer, or face deeper discounts.
The world's largest market for heavy, sour crude is the US Gulf Coast, which has very limited pipeline access from Western Canada. The region offers the best pricing for heavy crude, and also typically sets the price differentials.
Since Canada's export pipelines are at capacity, the incremental barrel of oil needs to be shipped by rail, which has a higher transportation cost and drives up pricing discounts.
The proposed Keystone XL pipeline to the Gulf Coast offers the best marketability, since the USGC is a very large market for heavy crude with a shortage of stable suppliers.
However, transportation discounts would be minimized by expanding capacity to BC's West Coast, either to Vancouver via the Trans Mountain Expansion, or to Kitimat, using Northern Gateway. Both offer the shortest distances to tidewater, minimizing pipeline tolls. Once seaborne, crude can be inexpensively shipped to Asia or California, two very large buyers of heavy, sour crude."

"However, the dynamics of the US refining sector began to change about 10 years ago. As imports of Canadian crude into the Midwest continued to increase, the region no longer needed to import volumes from the Gulf Coast, and instead began blending heavy Canadian crude with light Bakken oil, produced in North Dakota and transported east by rail. Canada now accounts for 99% of all foreign oil imports into the Midwest. More than 60% of Midwest total feedstock is now Canadian crude, leaving little room for future growth."

The Keystone XL is being held up in the US not Canada! Can't blame Trudeau for that can we?

[Oliver88]

Interesting that pro NDP dmlfarmer finds an article to take the side of Notley and Trudeau who both love carbon taxes. The article didn’t mention the west coast tanker ban Bill C-48 and Bill C-69 no pipelines bill. The smart NDP engineer must have forgotten about those bills?

[jazz]

Another side to this argument that needs consideration. This was written by an Alberta petroleum engineer:

That's nothing new. Patch has been doing that for 50 yrs.

That is not the same as legislation aimed to kill your industry dead in the name of some climate religion hoax.

And parsley is dead right. All value added industry was moved down east under the Liberals 50 yrs ago and none ever gets moved here.

[SASKFARMER]

Here Chuck is your sign. Wear it proud.

You're the same guy that thought we should all live under the CWB rule forever.

Yea that was a great idea.

Keep believing Trudeau is doing good.

HAHAHAHAHA

AGain explain the 70000 jobs lost is good in your eyes and the USAs 266000 plus is bad.

Please tell us.

[dmlfarmer]

Interesting that pro NDP dmlfarmer finds an article to take the side of Notley and Trudeau who both love carbon taxes. The article didn’t mention the west coast tanker ban Bill C-48 and Bill C-69 no pipelines bill. The smart NDP engineer must have forgotten about those bills?

More interesting that you cannot dispute what he is saying but instead name call and try to deflect from his argument that forces beyond government control such as world oil prices, quest for profits by companies, and automation play a bigger role than policy over the past few years