Is our Customer Right?

[charliep]

Good discussion.

Other issues that may be needed to be looked at as well.

1) Regulations around the feeding of animal by products. How far to go down this road?

2) Idenfication and handling of animals over 7 years (born prior to the 1997 feed ban). Wouldn't think there are many out there but I had a friend who went through his own herd and was surprised the number of productive older cows in it.

3) How we change the way carcasses are processed. I forget where, Cowman but you talked about still splitting carcass down the middle with spinal fluid dripping on meat/providing potential exposure (if present).

[grassfarmer]

What you are missing Incognito is that even if the Japanese decided to buy tested beef from us at this moment it would not pay us to sell to them. Why? as I see it we have only one problem - the packing industry which has a complete stranglehold on producers. Until the US border is open to live cattle we will not recover. Sure they could sell boxed,tested beef to the Japanese this summer but why should they pay producers over 40 cents/lb for it this summer once the glut of cattle hits the market? These parasites need to be stopped and stopped soon. This BSE crisis has never been about human health - it's been about politics and Corporate greed.

[Incognito]

Its always been about politics. So where are the politicians? Who is leading this cause?

Klein has to be feeling lonely about now. We have one person with enough media clout and the hands on taps to do something about and it's Klein.

We have no one leading the charge with vision nor balls at a national level. That goes for cattle and grain.

We suck as a country for lobbying efforts. Spend some time in Washington and watch the well-oiled machines do their wizardry.

The CWB debate has not been about economics with the US for 10 years, but it hasnt stopped the US from exploring every avenue possible and spending millions in farmer's pool accounts to defend frivilous actions.

I tried to talk to a pea splitter in the US today and he was too busy because he was filling out PL480 forms for shipments he can't keep up to.

The Americans are masters at subsidies in the disguise of food aid. The school lunch program in the US buys an enormous amount of beef.

Rather than Canada sending billions of dollars in monetary aid every year - why are we not sending beef then?

C'mon, there is enough talent in this country that we should not have to sit idly by and WAIT for the US to say, ok boys, the elections over - send us your beef!

The FTA and NAFTA agreements didnt mean we have to solely market our products within the boundaries.

We have to look for OTHER markets, because what do we do the next time a roadblock is thrown up?

In consideration on your statements re. packers, what is the alternative?

[TOM4CWB]

Grassfarmer;

If a new packing plant were to open today, owned by farmers... how much do you think fat beef cattle would rise?

A market for excess beef must exist before more can be paid by a packer for more marketings.

Hence the call for total BSE testing to open export markets up.

ONE huge problem is use of US futures that don't work... in the case where our border closes.

WE MUST get our own CDN futures market... to risk manage in the new world... for beef, hogs, and milling wheats.

IF we fail to recognise this simple reality... we don't understand the most fundemental point of management of risk... basis can totally negate a futures contract hedge... in a disaster situation.

For instance... a forward contract made by the CWB/us 6 months in the future... with a GMO discovery of wheat that contaminated US milling wheat.

Minni. futures could drop in half... while the CWB/we would still have to deliver the CDN wheat at the lower price... even if we had no GMO issue in Canada

SO what do we do?

RISK Management is key in making a profit... contract production instead of speculation on future prices has served my farm very well.

[boone]

incognito: our fearless leaders in the cattle biz are so in awe of the big players they defer almost to the point of kneeling and wetting themselves. You can say what you want about the left leaning radicals that built the UFA, Pools, Coops if you like, but they never saw themselves as anything but equals once organized. These little potentate feedlot owners and the spokespersons for the industry haven't got the guts to stand up for the rank and file cattlemen. Their grandfathers must be churning in their graves as they see them peeing on the floor every time either slaughter facility scratches themselves and asks them to victimize other farmers. sorry for being crude but they make me sick. Ultimatum time gents either open your _______border or we test them all at a farmers owned plant. Is there not a "MAN" left in the cattle biz to lead his people?

[magpie]

Boone you are 100% correct,we are nearing the end of the ride.Ultimatum time is here.Now with the scandal in Ottawa,I doubt anybody will even hear us for awhile.

[cowman]

But boone our "leaders" both elected and appointed have clearly decided they are not going to do a test! Our real leaders(Cargill and IBP) definitely like things just how they are! It's sort of like the grain industrys leaders? They decide they will sell the good wheat, on credit, at well below the highs while insisting that Canadian millers buy the pig feed left over at world class prices(early nineties when the wheat froze over much of the west?) And don't forget that you elected the majority of the old boys sitting on the CWB?
Now it is true that 6% of the producers elected our ABP, but I'm not sure that we voted for the rest? At least I can't remember voting for Cargill or IBP! But then Ralph Klein and his tories definitely voted for Cargill and IBP so I guess it is okay that they now run the show?

[boone]

Cowman: remember though when all is said and done these minions may get a job on one of the boards of these companies, so it isn't like there isn't some long term intrinsic value to some of your constituents.

[TOM4CWB]

Boone and Cowman;

Is the concentration of packers all the fault of IBP/Cargill?

I think not.

If Alberta growers/finishers had supported smaller packers... would they not be still around?

When will we farmers take responsibility for our actions... instead of always finding someone else to blame things on?

Look at the Dairy Industry!

Value added up to the ying-yang... owned by farmers in Canada... and farmers sold out.

Now what do we have?

Industry concentration/lack of choice.

As was stated earler GOV policy pushed an over development of the livestock sector by stopping exports of particularly lower quality grains...

on the backs of grain production in the wesr...

THe CWB paid $128.50/t for feed wheat last year, the AUSSIES paid "A"$210/"B"$190/t in their two pools, we can get over $5/bu for feed peas going the the EU, but lower quality wheat throught the CWB is only worth $3.30/bu...$2.20/bu for feed wheat?

THis skews farmers towards livestock production in the outer reaches of Canada. Of Course not one bushel was exported of lower grades of grain in 2002/03.

My neighbour shipped some 4CWRS by CGC accident/deception (producer car)... and it instantly disappeared into the port terminal and could not be taken out... as it was "upgraded" and did not "exist" any longer.

I am getting distracted... but how exactly does the CWB blame FSU feed quality wheat (by CDN Standards) for lowering our 2002-03 pool?

ANyway... the point is it does not really matter who owns the system, does it?

Constructive points boys... you laid down the law earlier in this string...

What are your 10 points to fix the woes of the feeder/packer industry?

How do we as farmers create more value for our Customer, wheather that customer is a beef consumer of a grain user?

[TOM4CWB]

My point #1

POINT ONE: An ALBERTA Feeder and Finished cattle futures.