What happens to land prices during western separation(or not)?

[TSIPP]

I think the breaking point is pretty much here, lately I’ve noticed when we’re asked to take off our hats and sing oh Canada it’s really lacking enthusiasm, a few people seem to mumble a few of the words but nobody’s singing with any pride. I think the lack of energy speaks volumes.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

I think the breaking point is pretty much here, lately I’ve noticed when we’re asked to take off our hats and sing oh Canada it’s really lacking enthusiasm, a few people seem to mumble a few of the words but nobody’s singing with any pride. I think the lack of energy speaks volumes.

It definitely is getting to that point, and ramming through the two anti-western industry bills this week just accelerated the process.

[6V53]

And it is laughable how many posts there are about how bad it is in Canada. If this is bad, you guys need to read about or visit some developing countries and see what bad really is.[/QUOTE]

Well when Lorne Calvert was claiming Saskatchewan was the best place to live,the leader of North Korea was claiming the same thing about his country. I guess it's just a matter of perspective.

[grassfarmer]

You assume that people don't have a breaking point? You assume that people will continue to respect the rule of law and the democratic process even after accepting that they are clearly not designed in their favour, especially after destroying their livelihoods?

And that's been my experience in this country - particularly Alberta. Through BSE and a lot of the oil field crap - most farm families would suck it up, as quiet as church mice, lose their livelihoods and homes before they would dare speak up in public, let alone protest in public. When you can turn out 250,000 to a western separatist rally people might take it seriously. That's the kind of demonstration of desire for change that would be needed but I predict that day will never come.

[chuckChuck]

Its the Agriville doom and gloom club on here. Mostly political hot air.

Once Scheer is elected all the problems will magically disappear and oil and agriculture will return to their mighty position as the only real wealth creators in the country! Everybody else is a lazy socialist! LOL

I don't know why most of you naysayers and dooms dayers get out of bed and plant a crop or feed the cows. Why bother?

[samhill]

Dominion Lands Act
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The Dominion Lands Act (short title for An Act Respecting the Public Lands of the Dominion) (the Act) was an 1872 Canadian law that aimed to encourage the settlement of the Canadian Prairies and to help prevent the area being claimed by the United States. The Act was closely based on the United States Homestead Act, setting conditions in which the western lands could be settled and their natural resources developed.

Dominion Lands Act
Parliament-Ottawa.jpg
Parliament of Canada
An Act respecting the Public Lands of the Dominion
Citation
SC 1872, c. 23
Territorial extent
North-West Territories
Manitoba
Saskatchewan
Alberta
British Columbia (certain areas only)
Enacted by
Parliament of Canada
Date of royal assent
April 14, 1872
Status: Repealed
In 1871, the Government of Canada entered into Treaty 1 and Treaty 2 to obtain the consent of the indigenous nations from the territories set out respectively in each Treaty. The Treaties provided for the taking up of lands "for immigration and settlement". In order to settle the area, Canada invited mass emigration by European and American pioneers, and by settlers from eastern Canada. It echoed the American homestead system by offering ownership of 160 acres of land free (except for a small registration fee) to any man over 18 or any woman heading a household. They did not need to be British subjects, but had to live on the plot and improve it.[1]

The Act is controversial because the Canadian Government—established by Confederation only five years earlier—was extremely short on funds and never provided compensation to the indigenous nations[dubious – discuss] for the use of the lands which the Government had decided to give away for free.

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Application The Dominions Land ACT
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Unlike in eastern Canada, the federal government had assumed control over public lands and natural resources in most of western Canada. Its jurisdiction to do so is controversial with First Nations, who assert they were not only not compensated for their lands, but that only the lands taken up for immigration and settlement were covered in the Numbered Treaties, and that other lands and natural resources were not covered.[citation needed]

The Act was applied to the province of Manitoba and to the Northwest Territories. Upon the creation of the provinces of Saskatchewan and Alberta from the Northwest Territories, the Act continued to apply to them. It was also extended to the Peace River Block of British Columbia. In 1930, the federal government agreed to transfer control over the public lands and natural resource to the prairie provinces by means of the Natural Resources Acts.[2][3][4][5] From that point onwards, the Dominion Lands Act only applied in the North-West Territories.[6]

[tweety]

I get the impression we aren't even discussing the same issue.

I'm concerned about how the fallout of a separation movement, regardless of outcome will affect our largest investment. Will we be collateral damage, or can we benefit from it?

Has it hurt the land prices in Quebec? There is the answer to your question.

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Its the Agriville doom and gloom club on here. Mostly political hot air.

Once Scheer is elected all the problems will magically disappear and oil and agriculture will return to their mighty position as the only real wealth creators in the country! Everybody else is a lazy socialist! LOL

I don't know why most of you naysayers and dooms dayers get out of bed and plant a crop or feed the cows. Why bother?

Aspiring to do better is the opposite of doom and gloom. It is called ambition and optimism for the future. You are the one who keeps referring to anyone not willing to accept change and improvements as Knuckle draggers or similar.

And I'm sure you don't see the irony in having someone from the eternal climate doomsday cult calling anyone with a plan to improve our future prospects a doomsdayer?

[AlbertaFarmer5]

Has it hurt the land prices in Quebec? There is the answer to your question.

One could argue that it has hurt investment over all in Quebec. What business other than those subsidized by government, or forced to by geography, has set up in Quebec in the last half century?

Much of Quebec agriculture falls into the same category with supply management, so not sure we can draw any large conclusions from their experience.

[Blaithin]

Remember the scoffing and mockery we made of all Quebecois who wanted to separate?

That's exactly what I feel for people who think Alberta or the western provinces should separate.

Boohoo, it's not how you like it, lets separate so we can get what we want! Like that will get you what you want.... On no planet would Alberta be a successful sovereign place and on no planet would we be a well represented 51st State. What would land prices do? Crater as regulations become unstable, currency becomes unstable and the economy becomes unstable. Land prices would crash so that American companies could buy up the new state for pennies. You think it would be great for Alberta to try and export our products when the railway lines then have to deal with exporting anything just to get through BC to the coast? Or make transportation costs even higher because they have to go a longer way around to get to a port that doesn't require exporting to get too.

Anyone who has had to deal with exporting anything - grain, livestock, inert materials - can tell you it's a pita hoop to jump through. Why would you purposely want us to now have to export INTO Canada just to get your grain to port?

Separatism will never be the answer. You want change, then help initiate change instead of whinging about it not being the way you want. Can't say the Conservative politicians are great, shining beacons of Yay either. Maybe someone who works in the Ag industry should become a politician, they all seem to be so very political.

And why does one either have to be a Socialist and jump to the remnants of the East or be a Separatist? Those are two shitty options.

I'm neither of those options, I'm Canadian. I've lived in a variety of provinces, at this point in time I'm in Alberta, but before and overhead of being Albertan, I'm Canadian. Generally there's more to be proud of as a Canadian than there is as an Albertan LOL

[chuckChuck]

Aspiring to do better is the opposite of doom and gloom. It is called ambition and optimism for the future. You are the one who keeps referring to anyone not willing to accept change and improvements as Knuckle draggers or similar.

And I'm sure you don't see the irony in having someone from the eternal climate doomsday cult calling anyone with a plan to improve our future prospects a doomsdayer?

Protecting the environment and creating a sustainable 21st century economy that provides good jobs for everyone is not a step backwards.

You want to take us back to the "glory" days of resource extraction with no regulations and little enforcement to protect the environment. One industry towns and maybe provinces sometimes turn into empty shells when the resources run out and they don't want to pay attention to the changes in markets and environmental issues.

Take the easy money and run and let somebody else pay to cleanup the mess! That's the history of resource extraction and exploitation around the world. Privatize the profits and socialize the cleanup and degradation.

The oil companies aren't even willing to pay for cleaning up the suspended, abandoned and orphaned wells, let alone the devastation caused by the tar sands or damage caused by climate change.

Taxpayers and landowners will be on the hook for billions and the legacy of environmental degradation and resource depletion.

[samhill]

In 1871, the Government of Canada entered into Treaty 1 and Treaty 2 to obtain the consent of the indigenous nations from the territories set out respectively in each Treaty. The Treaties provided for the taking up of lands "for immigration and settlement". In order to settle the area, Canada invited mass emigration by European and American pioneers, and by settlers from eastern Canada. It echoed the American homestead system by offering ownership of 160 acres of land free (except for a small registration fee) to any man over 18 or any woman heading a household. They did not need to be British subjects, but had to live on the plot and improve it.[1


I don’t see how you can say most land, other than 9.7%, is owned by the Crown, or Queen of England, when the Dominions Land Act gave ownership to homesteaders upon meeting the requirements.

[Marusko]

On the topic of land prices during separation, Blaithin is on the same track as I am. The economic turmoil of separation would be disastrous. Think of creating new trade agreements from scratch from a new country, finding ways to export our product, establishing a national bank and currency. All that uncertainty is really bad, and lasts for years. It's not a process that happens over a few months. Some farmers are broken by a couple bad years, nevermind 5-10 years worth of secession and establishment / entry into statehood. Separation (and then joining another country) takes time, and in the meantime, we suffer.

There are countries who would not support an independent Western Canada. They have their own independence movements that they wish to suppress, so why would they recognize and support us? That would lend credibility to their own movements. So we lose potential markets.

Then, if we're independent with our own currency, we're even more privy to the fluctuations of a petrodollar. Oil is high, economy rolling well? Currency value inflates, grain prices go down. When the opposite happens, our commodities go up but then try to buy farm equipment at a reasonable price. That kind of yo-yo-ing isn't good for investing in land. Bargain basement prices all around!

[chuckChuck]

The overvalued petro dollar and high energy prices had negative impacts on many other sectors during the boom. Fuel prices, labour and land price inflation all had a negative impact on many farms. Inflation drove up the cost of living in western canada. It was great if you had a high paying oil job but the rest of us didn't and had to pay more.

Lots of manufacturing jobs were lost in Ontario with the high dollar. Farmers were lucky that the price of many ag commodities were also high other wise we would have been killed by the high dollar. Imagine current prices of grains if the USD and CAD were par now? Take 30% off your prices!

Now that the shoe is on the other foot there is a lot of complaining from the oil sector. Yes it sucks to be out of a job. But the world price of oil dropped because of supply and demand. Other countries saw the same impact regardless of what national policies they had or have. Even the Saudis are planing on diversifying!

Many people have short memories and want to blame politicians for everything.

[the big wheel]

Those that don’t like Canada should fk off to trump land. Do you people that want to separate really think we have the brain power at the leadership positions to manage the chaos that there would be? Wall couldn’t even manage 110 dollar oil broke all of us and sent the bill to us farmers. Meanwhile his best friends at input and ag capital and all the land dead etc filled their pockets. And what else do we have here? Lmao