Richardson Pulls funding

[furrowtickler]

You guys are interesting. rr beans 5 years straight is great in South america oh they are sooooo smart. but canadian farmers are so stupid for having a crop rotation, using fertilizer to replace nutrients and spraying fungicides. 90+ bu wheat this year no fuz lots of fert and fungicides. What am I doing Wrong lol

Uhhh , you totally missed the point there guy ...

[bgmb]

Uhhh , you totally missed the point there guy ...

Whats is your point then? if we all cut back our fertilizer and go half way organic there will be no disease? Yes if you use more fertilizer you will have a heavier crop and there is a greater chance you will benefit from a fungicide. Its a system that is working very well for many farms.


By the way you didnt address my comment about my wheat yields. Since you guys are so big on anecdotes I will assume you are putting your utmost faith in my system going forward. Or did you top those yields on 60lb n with some magic juice and no fungicide last year?

[Klause]

Whats is your point then? if we all cut back our fertilizer and go half way organic there will be no disease? Yes if you use more fertilizer you will have a heavier crop and there is a greater chance you will benefit from a fungicide. Its a system that is working very well for many farms.


By the way you didnt address my comment about my wheat yields. Since you guys are so big on anecdotes I will assume you are putting your utmost faith in my system going forward. Or did you top those yields on 60lb n with some magic juice and no fungicide last year?

Umm...

Wow.


Our wheat ran 60 with no commercial fertilizer or chemical. I think we spent a lot less money growing it.

Let's say you grow 40 (avg) organically... worth $16 - $640/acre
Let's say you grow 80 (avg) conventionally... worth $7... $560/acre


Rule of thumb is organics yield half of conventional... on average... but you can do better.

Who made more money?
Who made a bunch of multinationals rich(er)?

But please, carry on... You do things your way until you're forced not to. That day is coming - quickly.

Ban on glyphosate, carbon tax and direct taxes on fertilizer.
Licensing and prescription system for herbicides and fungicides.


I think furrow's point was to maintain yield, but slightly alter management practices so as not to require as much in the way of chemical intervention... more profit, less expense.

You realise in other countries they grow 140 bpa wheat on less for inputs than we apply for 70...
In Canada as a whole nutrient efficiency is roughly 50%.

[bgmb]

Umm...

Wow.


Ignorance.


Our wheat ran 60 with no commercial fertilizer or chemical. I think we spent a lot less money growing it.

Let's say you grow 40 (avg) organically... worth $16 - $640/acre
Let's say you grow 80 (avg) conventionally... worth $7... $560/acre


Rule of thumb is organics yield half of conventional... on average... but you can do better.

Who made more money?
Who made a bunch of multinationals rich(er)?

But please, carry on... You do things your way until you're forced not to. That day is coming.

Thats nice but I dont see how you can gross 640 on organic year in year out on a large scale. Also dont see how you replace all your exported nutrients in organic on a large scale farm.

[Klause]

Thats nice but I dont see how you can gross 640 on organic year in year out on a large scale. Also dont see how you replace all your exported nutrients in organic on a large scale farm.

Not being able to "see" it... doesn't mean it isn't happening. There's some very large organic farms now... they are not run down, and they are very well managed.


organic peas are $17/bushel... 30bu/acre = $510
organic lentils are $1/lb... 600lbs/ac(10bu) = $600
organic flax $40/bu .... 15 bu/ac = $600.

soft rock phos and elemental S produce P2O5 in the soil for you.

Manure... and feed the livestock the screenings.

Weed control... weed clippers, seed destroyers, inter row cultivation... Mulch...


completely different mindset. And it's never about the gross, it's about the NET.

[Klause]

Thats nice but I dont see how you can gross 640 on organic year in year out on a large scale. Also dont see how you replace all your exported nutrients in organic on a large scale farm.

Sorry, I was wrong... I mis-quoted organic HRS. Current bid FOB S'toon is $20/bu.... so that would be $800/acre at 40 bpa.

[bgmb]

Sorry, I was wrong... I mis-quoted organic HRS. Current bid FOB S'toon is $20/bu.... so that would be $800/acre at 40 bpa.

I would say those are pretty optimistic yields for organic. Here guys are 50 % fallow and getting 5 bu flax 10-15 wheat. Obviously not the best organic farm lol.

Do you think it is feasable to grow an annual crop every year? or do you need to throw alfalfa or clover in for some nitrogen?

[bgmb]

Sorry, I was wrong... I mis-quoted organic HRS. Current bid FOB S'toon is $20/bu.... so that would be $800/acre at 40 bpa.

Ummm

Wow

Klause when you have a couple thousand acres of $800/ac certified organic wheat waving in the wind let me know would love to come check it out. Dont forget its not about profit per acre its about net profit of your business.

[Klause]

I would say those are pretty optimistic yields for organic. Here guys are 50 % fallow and getting 5 bu flax 10-15 wheat. Obviously not the best organic farm lol.

Do you think it is feasable to grow an annual crop every year? or do you need to throw alfalfa or clover in for some nitrogen?

Depends...


A lot on where you are.

Lentils, fabas, peas add lots of N especially if you don't fungicide them*

We had 80lbs of available N the spring following lentils, 50-60 on peas.


Clover is a good weed killer, but you can underseed an early cereal (oats, barley), and then put winter wheat or fall rye in the year after... doesn't have to be every 2nd year.

You can replace the other macro nutrients... The thing is people hear "organic" and think summerfallow, weeds, and shit crops. That's called poor management, not organic farming.

mallee was out here looking at our wheat this year, we didn't have thousands of acres, but we had 600.

If you're interested http://www.pivotandgrow.com/resources/prices/ Organic Grain Prices (ballpark).

In a country plauged with rural de-population, high distance to markets, and a rail system not capable of keeping up with increased production... Maybe a pivot towards lower yielding, (much) higher margin crops, and richer consumers would be the smartest thing possible.

Instead of growing cheap to feed many, grow expensive food to feed the few.?


*I'm serious.... Do soil N tests the spring following peas, on fungicide applied and non-applied areas of the field. It's shocking. 40lb difference!)

[furrowtickler]

My point had nothing to do with fertility.
Certain herbicides are creating a perfect environment for fusarium to become a far more exaggerated problem than it should be and that weather and rotation are not the only culprits.
And yes everyone knows the more fertility you use the higher the chance of higher crop disease if conditions are right , that’s just basic agronomy.
Fusarium has spread like wildfire across western Canada .... and it’s not solely weather. Yes last year in cereal fusarium was low in general, and most areas had high yields and non existent fusarium.
Most did not spray fungicide as it was a waste of time . But this was not about wheat at all . Actually it got derailed a lot from the original post lol.

[bgmb]

We sure did get off course guess we were agreeing too much so you guys had to start in with you theories on gylphosate, fisarium and so on. Klause in all fairness can you call what you did Organic. Organic is 3 years transition with no conventional inputs. Also I am sure many farms can cut fert for one or 2 years and experience little to no yield loss but you will mine fertility. Remember exhaust injection.... The exhaust worked good for a couple years lol... I guess if you are on mostly rented land.... If i was a landlord my worst fear would be an organic farmer.

[farmaholic]

Ya it got off track, but want to add there is a well heeled farm not far from here in the gumbo that is going "organic". These aren't the type of people who are afraid to spend a dollar in the field. They will intercrop, plowdown, and do some of the things others talk about. I highly doubt these guys are hurting.... far from broke but see a trend and opportunity evolving.

Organic got a bad wrap from past poor organic farming practices, Listen to some of the things hobbyfrmr does. IMO, things have changed in that arena. It may not always look pretty but.... The only thing that I wouldn't like much about it would be the use of tillage. I know black isn't beautiful anymore and I don't think they make it absolutely black without trash on top anymore either, I hope(?!?!?!?!?).

I know guys who will throw in the fungicide at herbicide time, or spray at the "right time(timing only)" for fusarium, sclerotinia, or ascochyta/anthracnose, etc, EVEN IF IT DOESN'T WARRANT IT OR JUSTIFY IT..... just because!!!! **** me!! And no one loves this more than the local retailers..... they love to get the "panic and sense of urgency" fueled.... well so and so is doing it. Just one guy is all it takes sometimes!



AgCelence.....LOL.