Tailings ponds a toxic legacy of Alberta's oilsands

[vvalk]

At the risk of derailing the thread,

Was that the year wheat futures were from $12 - $24 dollars for 13 weeks in a row and the Canadian dollar was at near par with the USD?

Funny thing about guys like IF is that they actually don't really farm. Mostly hobby guys who wouldn't even know how much the open market at anytime would have paid. They have a few 3ton loads to sell but know better then the 20% of farmers who grow 90% of the grain. Love the expertise that they know better. Laughable

[ajl]

IF, oil is the only thing that separates Canuckistan from the third world. It is what provides, pension, (which I am sure is important to you) healthcare, and a first world lifestyle for most. As such, we have to deal with some tailings ponds like it or not. Article overstates the problem. There is nothing that we do in Canuckistan that has the impact that the energy industry does. Is your vision one where you get your pension while the younger people get buried under a mountain of government debt because there really is nothing else than the oil industry and you would be wise to tune out those who seek to destroy it with exaggeration and outright lies. Yes there are problems but that is the case with everything.

[vvalk]

IF, oil is the only thing that separates Canuckistan from the third world. It is what provides, pension, (which I am sure is important to you) healthcare, and a first world lifestyle for most. As such, we have to deal with some tailings ponds like it or not. Article overstates the problem. There is nothing that we do in Canuckistan that has the impact that the energy industry does. Is your vision one where you get your pension while the younger people get buried under a mountain of government debt because there really is nothing else than the oil industry and you would be wise to tune out those who seek to destroy it with exaggeration and outright lies. Yes there are problems but that is the case with everything.

IF why don't you show us some leadership and turn the pipeline off into your house. Better yet spend the $150k to put geothermal and solar in. Will still need some power somehow though. It's still won't work 100% of the time. Wait, how do you drill those 300 ft holes or trenches for geothermal. Need some big petro thristy equipment Or how are those solar panels made and what happens when they need to be replaced? Could go on and on and on. Amazing the hypocracy or even worse be like the easterners in Canada and use oil from Nigeria.

[Oliver88]

It will be interesting to how an anti-fossil fuels person such as IF farmer heats and powers his house, aeration fans, shop, vehicles and all farm machinery.

It will interesting to hear what his power sources are.

[Integrity_Farmer]

Some interesting points about energy balance geothermal, solar etc
I understand that you cannot gain energy with tar sands tar (this is not crude) Why the natural gas and fresh water for this extraction?

A detailed energy balance analysis sponsored by the Alberta Government for SAGD (stem assisted gravity drainage) suggests that its EROI (energy return on investment) is close to 1:1. That makes bitumen a source of energy as pathetic and tragic as corn ethanol. Given that natural gas has an EROI almost as high as conventional oil, many energy experts regard the use of natural gas for bitumen production as folly.

John Diefenbaker once set up the National Energy Board that required 30 years of proven reserves before EXPORTS of oil and gas were permitted. Diefenbaker had a Canada first policy that no longer exists in Canadian politics.

I have never advocated removal of energy from farming as there are so many other wasteful uses of energy in our country such as passenger cars, truck transportation and lack of proper insulation in homes Of course alternative energy with positive EROI such as hydro geothermal wind and solar depending on location.

Since Mr. Vanderwalk a board member of the Western Canadian Wheat Growers advocated for the elimination of the Crow Rate and the abandonment of the rail lines he has provided failed solutions for farmers and the country. Rail transportation is known to be 10 times more energy efficient as transport truck.

Having massive tail-lings ponds leaking into the Athabasca river may be acceptable to a few posters on here but it is not acceptable to a majority of informed Canadians. Tar sands crude is a disaster for the ecology of Albertan and it has no economic value to our country

[Oliver88]

I.F. claims oilsands have no economic value in Canada?
Hard to take anyone serious if they make this claim.


I.F. do you think we should import oil from Venezuala, Somalia or Saudi Arabia instead of using petroleum from the Oilsands?

[Integrity_Farmer]

Oliver

It is hard to take anyone seriously that does not read much less comprehend. What I explained was the energy balance or the return on energy ROE. Tar sands is a loser it takes more energy in the total process than is recovered in BTU's. I mentioned a study that comes from the Alberta government that confirms this.

If you have contrary information please provide it.

[Oliver88]

Oliver

It is hard to take anyone seriously that does not read much less comprehend. What I explained was the energy balance or the return on energy ROE. Tar sands is a loser it takes more energy in the total process than is recovered in BTU's. I mentioned a study that comes from the Alberta government that confirms this.

If you have contrary information please provide it.

Re-read what you posted and specifically the last 6 words.
"....it has no economic value for the country".

One thing most socialists don't realize is that funding for social programs have to come from somewhere.

So now tell us if Canadian oil is so evil where do you propose we import it from???

[Integrity_Farmer]

Re-read what you posted and specifically the last 6 words.
"....it has no economic value for the country".

One thing most socialists don't realize is that funding for social programs have to come from somewhere.

So now tell us if Canadian oil is so evil where do you propose we import it from???

Oliver

It doesn't matter is you are a socialist or a conservative or Liberal. The issue is do you gain energy?

The fact that it takes 1 unit of energy (mainly natural gas ) to create 1 unit of energy as the Alberta Study I quoted indicated. Then we can only conclude "tar sands crude has no economic value for the country".


What study or report do you have that indicates your are actually gaining energy with tar sands bitumen.

[Integrity_Farmer]

[QUOTE=Integrity_Farmer;339002]Oliver

It doesn't matter is you are a socialist or a conservative or Liberal. The issue is do you gain energy?

The fact that it takes 1 unit of energy (mainly natural gas) to create 1 unit of energy from tar sands bitumen as the Alberta Study I quoted indicated. From this information we can only conclude "tar sands crude has no economic value for the country".

This would be comparable to planting a bushel of wheat and harvesting a bushel in the fall.

The drop in crude prices clearly shows what happens to the high cost tar sands oil process. It is an economic disaster.

What study or report do you have that indicates your are actually gaining energy with tar sands bitumen.