For bucket re supply management

[farmaholic]

4 liters of milk @ about $4.60 isn't much more than pop prices. In fact in some cases, like convenience stores.... cheaper, on a per liter basis. WTF.... buy pop in 2 liter bottles for a buck plus all enviro and deposit charges is cheap but hard to justify poorer people choosing it over milk when they could choose an even healthier alternative to pop.....WATER! Choices....!

[seabass]

You talking about peanut shit payments. Ones that by the time u pay the taxes u have just enuf left to prolong the agony. Ya those really help our cause. Good thing we have those kind of payments. They may help your big cattle ranch but most of the money the cattlemen got around here barely paid there twine bill.Thanks government.

[sumdumguy]

The people I spoke to everyday for about three years were very grateful for the payment. It could have been bigger and that I know, but that goes for all farm payments. We aren't on welfare, we are free enterprisers.

[dalek]

I am, nothing's personal against dairy farmers but supply management mostly benefits the east at the expense of the west. We could have a viable domestic and export industry out here which would be good for everyone. Its not just about dairy also chicken and eggs. Hate that milk is 1.5-2x what it should be in the store, so financially challenged families are more likely to choose unhealthy beverages.

There won't be an export opening for chicken or eggs with or without SM. There's a reason there's very little poultry much north of about the Mason-Dixon line in the US. Once you factor in the cost of building and potentially heating barns for winter there's no competing.

The SM factor in land prices particularly in Ontario and Quebec is huge

[grassfarmer]

I am not against supply management. ...it seems odd to be waiting for a buyout or payment when you are guaranteed to be a profitable entity in this country as a dairy producer.

Any payment they might have coming is to acknowledge that they will no longer have a guaranteed above cost of production price paid for their milk. Make no mistake the changes coming as a result of CETA will cost dairy producers in this country.

There won't be an export opening for chicken or eggs with or without SM. There's a reason there's very little poultry much north of about the Mason-Dixon line in the US. Once you factor in the cost of building and potentially heating barns for winter there's no competing.

And the same applies to dairy - how do Canadian dairy farmers compete with their New Zealand counterparts who largely set the world price of milk based on their year round, grass growing climate? All the more reason to keep the system we have now.

[bgmb]

Any payment they might have coming is to acknowledge that they will no longer have a guaranteed above cost of production price paid for their milk. Make no mistake the changes coming as a result of CETA will cost dairy producers in this country.




And the same applies to dairy - how do Canadian dairy farmers compete with their New Zealand counterparts who largely set the world price of milk based on their year round, grass growing climate? All the more reason to keep the system we have now.

Wouldn't be so sure of that, we have relatively low cost land for making silage and lots of cheap land locked grain for chicken feed as well as cheap hydro and gas for heat/lighting also I believe the cold climate helps with disease spread.

[Hopalong]

Tariff protection for supply management and single desk wheat board were often brought up in trade talks as justification for other country protectionist policy.
Even if they are or were of value to select groups of our producers, have to weigh that against them being used against Canada in trade negotiations..
Saw them used by U.S. wheat growers to support own COOL legislation.

[grassfarmer]

Hopalong, I think this is one area where Canada's national habit of "being nice" counts against us. Sure, our trade competitors will bring up these issues in negotiations - but it doesn't mean we should roll over and surrender. The US periodically bails out its dairy farmers by buying and culling huge numbers of their cows. This fall again they bailed out their dairy farmers with direct subsidy payments as well as bailing out cheese companies by buying their surplus product and donating it to food banks under their section 32 legislation.

The EU spent $750 million on just one bail out that I'm aware of this year. Paying farmers to produce less. In previous periods of low milk prices the EU has run Intervention whereby they buy in and store surplus dairy products. Of course the European dairy farmer also gets his regular "single farm payment" subsidy in addition.

Canadian supply management is the best dairy strategy in the world in my opinion because it is based on forcing the processor to pay a fair price for raw milk, involves no Government subsidy and results in dairy prices that the average consumer has no trouble in affording. After all the percentage of household consumptive expenditure spent of food was under 10% last figures I saw.

[farmaholic]

Who in God's name would dairy farm without some sort of guarantee? What a commitment. I cannot see over production as being a problem as much as a lack of production. Ask yourself if you would do what is required to manage and operate a dairy farm under the same set of, or lack thereof, rules as primary grain production? I believe prices of dairy products would increase because no one would "do it for nothing or next to nothing".

[stonepicker]

Hopalong, I think this is one area where Canada's national habit of "being nice" counts against us. Sure, our trade competitors will bring up these issues in negotiations - but it doesn't mean we should roll over and surrender. The US periodically bails out its dairy farmers by buying and culling huge numbers of their cows. This fall again they bailed out their dairy farmers with direct subsidy payments as well as bailing out cheese companies by buying their surplus product and donating it to food banks under their section 32 legislation.

The EU spent $750 million on just one bail out that I'm aware of this year. Paying farmers to produce less. In previous periods of low milk prices the EU has run Intervention whereby they buy in and store surplus dairy products. Of course the European dairy farmer also gets his regular "single farm payment" subsidy in addition.

Canadian supply management is the best dairy strategy in the world in my opinion because it is based on forcing the processor to pay a fair price for raw milk, involves no Government subsidy and results in dairy prices that the average consumer has no trouble in affording. After all the percentage of household consumptive expenditure spent of food was under 10% last figures I saw.

There's arguments for both sides of SM, always will be. But tell a young farmer who wants to get into dairy, that his biggest cost is gonna be the invisible milk quota. In grain or cattle a young farmer can start. Not in dairy imo.

[grassfarmer]

There's arguments for both sides of SM, always will be. But tell a young farmer who wants to get into dairy, that his biggest cost is gonna be the invisible milk quota. In grain or cattle a young farmer can start. Not in dairy imo.

In dairy people have always been able to pay the quota off over time though - because milk production is profitable under SM. Destroy SM and it'll be easier to get into dairying - but will new entrants be able to make a living? Sure, quota makes it a higher cost operation to buy into but so does irrigated versus non-irragated crop land, productive tame pasture versus bush and slough. There are different entry price points throughout agriculture just as farmers, and prospective farmers, have different depths of pocket.

Perhaps cost per acre is the wrong way to look at it? Many family dairy farms can make a good living on a quarter or certainly a half section farm. How many thousand acres does it take to provide the same income for a grain farmer? With the price of land and machinery the investment to become a profitable grain farmer is maybe closer to the dairy farm than you think. I don't know - you tell me - how much grain land it takes to support your own family well and in addition maintain a workers family with a $50,000 salary? I know quarter section dairy farms that can provide that kind of return.

[bgmb]

Ok, lets take the dairy mentality with every industry in Canada. Screw exporting oil we will keep the price at $100/barrel and have a tiny industry, export nothing. Boy that will be great the oil producers will be making a very good profit on a small volume. Who cares about all the wealth creation and jobs we could have if we dropped the price and played on the world market.

How about cars, the automakers are always struggling lets close the boarders tight and raise the price of cars that way we can have a healthy domestic industry and pay 70,000 bucks for a prius.

You're right grassfarmer why limit it to dairy and feathers lets have it for all and we can all prosper and have a very high standard of living in our utopian bubble called Canada.

[grassfarmer]

It doesn't occur to you that milk is maybe a different kind of commodity? A necessary food product and one that's highly perishable. Sounds like a Ritz plan - trumpet a "market access" breakthrough on the other side of the world, subsidize the processors to upgrade their facilities and stand back and watch prairie dairy farmers get paid less than the cost of production and fight an ongoing battle with the railways to see if they can get the milk hauled to Vancouver before it goes off. Sounds like a winning plan eh?

[bgmb]

Yes food is perishable, Milk, eggs, pork, beef, chicken, lettuce, tomatoes, fruit..... milk probably keeps as long as many fruits and veggies. By the way you can freeze, condense and powder milk. Maybe we need a supply managed fruit and vegetable industry in Canada. Regardless, pretty obvious SM has ridiculous special treatment in Canada at the expense of everyone else in the country.

[bucket]

This may or may not make sense but I only look for one brand of milk.

Occasionally we pick up a different brand and go back to dairyland.