Credit Sieze-up in Agriculture?

[parsley]

Oh, where to put the cash?...I've been mainly cash for a bit...if I were your age,Kodiak, I'd be looking at heifer calves. Masses of them. keeping them in separate inherd pastures,test them for bse, and expand.expnad expand.

Pars

[cottonpicken]

Been looking for a farm comparable to mine for a while,have never seen it,in the scheme of things does it really matter?

The credit question is extremely important and should be continually talked about here.Good subject Kodiak.

My bet is no problem.


An outside scenario that i've been worried about is that the inflation needed cannot be added.
For every trillion added several is destroyed lately.
Well see how the idicaters play out.

[wilagro]

Testing, testing. Is it safe to come out of my bomb shelter yet. Is "walk" still waiting in ambush?

Thanks Parsley for your rational even-handed comments.

Anyway, if farmers desire to operate a large-scale operation, then borrow if you will, but realize that borrowed money can be an albatross around one's neck. My father hated debt and I guess he instilled this concept of pay your way with what you earn and save rather than using borrowed money which in reality is just borrowing TIME. There will always be a day of reckoning and if your gamble with someone else's money falls flat that means TIME and effort wasted.

I have some fine hardworking neighbours who are suffering from ulcers and bad nerves after struggling for the past dozen years or so. Their debt load is slowly killing them and they can't enjoy life anymore.

I graduated from Ag college many, many years ago and we learned about many aspects of practical farming but there was not as much stress on farm management as I am sure is essential in today's world.

If the banks and other lending agencies facing the current financial collapse decide to tighten the screws on the farmers and ranchers, a good many of you guys will be SOL. Plan to lessen your credit needs in the near future, is my advice. The concept of "the banker is your friend" is kaput. Learn to live with it.

[TOM4CWB]

Wilagro,

As the Topic is "Credit Sieze-up in Agriculture"... this topic deserves to be discussed openly!

How does our customer... anywhere on the globe... buy our grain without 'credit'?

How many farmers get paid with 'cash'... and not depend on a good relationship with a bank?

AND a good relationship with a grainco... broker... all of which MUST have good 'credit' to get anywhere on a commercial size.

WHY was there such a problem in the 1930's?

Could it be... everyone decided to be like Wilagro... not trust... co-operate... they had unrealistic expectations... said grain could NOT be worth 1/2 as much... when it costed 2x that amount to grow!

WITHOUT Credit... we farmers are dead in the water. Our customers that buy more than 95% of the volume of the grain we grow... are established and depend upon... Credit to operate.

Letters of Credit (LOC)... are a problem right now... as I am told some banks will not accept other banks LOC.

Freeze up. Price collapse.

Parsley... Wilagro can be an old grump... and condemn everyone who uses 'credit'... but he would not have the life style... support services... freewheat couldn't get parts to fix his old equipment... the whole system as we know it collapses... WITHOUT CREDIT.

We have a 1930's style depression... WITHOUT CREDIT.

Could it happen?

Yes... if folks like Wilagro... are in charge.

Do we 'want' a 30's depression?

I hope not...

DO WE HAVE A CHOICE?

That is what this federal election is all about!

Liberanos and ND's... Greens and Commies...all act as though credit/gov. can bail us out of all our problems! SPEND ourselves INTO prosperity... while doing nothing productive for our neighbour... just spend on ourselves.

This attitude will collapse any economy... no questions asked!

Oct. 14th... is important.

We will as a nation... Canada... send a message to the rest of the world.

Are we willing to pull our fair share of the weight... and not borrow our way into oblivion? DION... MAY... Layton... their policies all lead to inward looking selfish attitudes... just like Wilagro... they all want everyone else to have credit... so their 'cash' can be king and still work!

Can't have it both ways... cash or credit... in the end... it is all the same... unless you want to pay for everything with GOLD...

Everything depends on currency... credit... relationship... and good will between all who use these tools!

Our Economy MUST have credit... or everything we operate by and do as a society... collapses.

Wilagro's cash... bank account... all mean NOTHING... if the currency isn't accepted.

The underground economy operates on US$ CASH.

That is why the US$ is rising... folks have used it LIKE GOLD... for 50 years.

A shortage of US$... CASH US$... is why the US$ is rising!

In the end... it is all Monopoly MONEY... without trust... faith... and good will between those who buy and sell!

Without choice... in who we buy and sell to... there is no freedom for any one of us!

THIS is why the CWB is such a paradox... and THE ISSUE OF CHOICE AND FREEDOM so important to so many of us!

[rookie]

Against my better judgement, here i am replying to this thread..........


As a young guy with lots of debt, and few experts to turn to , I frequently look at chat rooms for opinions I could otherwise never hear.

In the last few days I am especially looking around as the markets are....well you know...

But what a waste of time the last 5 minutes have been..........

[parsley]

cotton,

Do you see any economic terrorism at play?

[jensend]

i think there could be a little economic terrorism here but it's probably not needed. the g-7 countries have, over the years, built a system that enabled a higher standard of living without increased productivity - rampant credit and debt. now these countries are overextended and the bills are laying unpaid on the kitchen table. in the course of this happening the developed countries became very expensive places to do business and we became uncompetitive in some sectors with the bric countries. we exported jobs instead of goods and serivces. the whole system needs to be shaken out and bring about an equilibrium that hasn't been so distorted by political and business interests all jockeying for power. then it will all happen again over the coming years.

[agstar77]

Farming has become a debt trap, always bigger more efficient so that the common folks can spend less on food and more on the finer things in life. Well now the chickens might be coming home to roost. When you can't borrow the operating loan to plant that crop that you have sold, what happens then? Borrowing large sums is fine in good times but in bad times you can get caught in a squeeze and have no control . Agriculture is one of the sectors that has allowed the developed world to live beyond it's means. As Dylan said "the times they are a changing".

[parsley]

jensend,
How can ag credit seize up overnight?

If there is just a bit of panic in the G8's, it too will pass.
But maybe a troubling question would be is this...what world player(s) do you see as having a lot of cash, essentially no debt, and with an agenda, and wanting to whip the economic pot into chaos?

[jensend]

parsley i know bin laden said the usa would be destroyed from within and russia has been waiting for the united states to seize up so that they can become relatively more powerful but i don't think there was much they had to do other than wait it out. we can't engineer our way out of this so i doubt they engineered us into it. the united states especially with their stupid war got themselves into a bind and weren't paying the full cost of what they were doing i.e. living on credit to the chinese and japanese. now the only way out is to tank their currency as cotton predicts or to take a hit immediately in their standard of living. either way it won't be fun.