Letter to stop the sale of GM alfalfa seed in Canada

[chuckChuck]

There are virtually no weed free fields in western Canada organic or other wise.

Weeds have been spreading since the begining of agriculture even though farmers have been using lots of herbicides for decades. Singling out organic farms for an industry wide problem is unfair. Organic acres are very small proportion of total acres.

Herbicide tolerant weeds will be a bigger issue and have greater economic impact on crop production because the majority of farms use herbicides on the majority of acres. If that system fails then we are in big trouble.

All types of farms spread weeds unless they are completely weed free.

Most seed spread occurs because of poorly cleaned seed. Some of that is caused by inadequate on farm and elevator cleaners.

Road sides, yard sites, fencelines,sloughs, river valleys, pastures, hayland, all contain weeds and are generally not sprayed and are a potential source of weed seeds for neighboring fields.

Commercial trucks also spread weed seeds by dumping their gates wherever and leaving their tarps open while driving.

Organic screenings are often sold to feed companies and pelletized which is a good method of making sure they are not viable.

[chuckChuck]

So if you can't control your herbicide tolerant kochia and foxtail and it blows across on the neighbors, you are contributing to the problem just as anyone else is, organic or not.

Denying there is a problem with herbicide tolerance or trying to shift the blame to organic farmers is very conveniently ignoring that the majority of weed problems were not and are not being caused by organic farmers.

Organic farmers generally hurt them selves more than anyone else if they don't do a reasonable job. Wild oats, green foxtail, wild mustard and many other weed seeds generally stay close to their origin and are not likely to be spread by organic farmers to non organic farms.

[checking]

Let's cut to the quick. We all have exit strategies from farming. Some of us have no desire to sell our farms.

When noxious weed seeds are inseparable from conventional alfalfa seed, and some organic farmer deliberately buys and sows that inexpensive crap to raise his leaf cutter bees on rented land right next to my conventional alfalfa, what's my control mechanism?

I'd say it is GM alfalfa. I'd also say I know who forced me to use it. So **** off with your letter promotion because you lost an ally.

[freewheat]

I have been watching this thread with great interest. I am not sure truly what the concern is about gm alfalfa? Is it that in theory markets will be closed on Canadian meat? Milk? Is it a green party initiative? Green peace?

I am not against gm alfalfa, nor am I for it. I am neutral. Is it a seed production concern mainly, or a hay with gm content concern?

Fill me in a bit more, those who are signing this and getting responses from Elizabeth May. That right there makes me wonder?

Not trying to be a dummy, I just am trying to get my head around the evil of rr alfalfa???

I personally do not see the need for it, because if you do any kind of job establishing the stuff, weeds are seldom much of an issue, and options are there for weed control already.

I dunno?

[oneoff]

"Wild oats, green foxtail, wild mustard and many other weed seeds generally stay close to their origin and are not likely to be spread by organic farmers to non organic farms."

So you think so. Same should apply to kochia, alfalfa of all kinds and where ever wild animals and birds eat and and move about; and whatever human beings produce and transport. The truth is that bringing seeds and forages in from Alberta(or wherever) brings in their local weed problems... sure as shit.

And there are plenty of weeds already endemic and well established (but not with the same species and relative concentrations throughout the West.

And making it quite plain; that applies to every conventional farming operation and every organic one too.

And as for organic producers worrying about herbicide resistance

"Yes and there are some pretty serious uncontrollable weeds in non-organic fields due to herbicide resistance which is a growing problem all across North America including right on local farms on the prairies. Just ask weed scientists. It is well documented."


When weeds get uncontrollable (by whatever definition the affected farmer may use) just remember that the full arsenel and all the borrowed experience of every organic producer (and everyone's forefathers before 2,4-D powder was brought to SE Sask by forward thinking members of certain Agricultural Societies that I could name.) can be quickly brought out as recommendations if need be.

I'm absolutely sure that those members could see the benefit of minute amounts of chemicals in the control of rampant weeds.

And ponder this quote


"Herbicide tolerant weeds will be a bigger issue and have greater economic impact on crop production because the majority of farms use herbicides on the majority of acres. If that system fails then we are in big trouble. "

Why would this be a big problem. You mean organic techniques could't pick up the shortfall quickly enough. PROBABLY RIGHT. PROBABLY SHOCKING. GOOD FOR THOSE READY FOTHE OPPORTUNITY. BUT PROBABLY BIG TROUBLE as you insinuate. You think farmers couldn't learn again to drive tractors pulling cultivators. You think not many are capable of growing legumes and working organic matter into the soil. You think that comes without trouble in itself; and affects of in effect producing a crop ever two years or so. And there is such a thing as mining soils and alfalfa is a temporary boost to nutient availability because of a deep root system compared to most common prairie crops. That should be taken into account if anyone is thinking of the future beyond a couple decades or so.


But here's the best one that hopefully will engage your brain to weigh what those herbicide tolerant weeds really mean to organic producers.


FIRST....unless there is a conspiracy that created GMO tolerant kochia, foxtail, giant ragweed etc. etc. then those plants probably only got their resistance through natural selection.

You know....the 6 or so magic bullet applications of a new chemical before a few glyphosate (insert any other chemical except maybe some broad leaf 2,4-D products and Buctril M Types) tolerant ones start showing up without any apparent control evidenced after a spray application.

Organic farmers have nothing to additionally fear from these "glyphosate etc" resistant weed seeds that will die equally surely by any rod weeder, cultivator or tillage tool. Quit worrying about herbicide ineffectiveness. Farmers can change if the chemical dependence fails. And the shift in farming practice may very well mean famines and shortages for growing numbers of mouths that may just know how to take what they can from those who can't produce what they need.

If that happens...That one should lie at the feet of those who demanded the changes and spead the misinformation among those who have no idea how the quantity or production method came about. And that goes beyond "no hormones added" and animal cruelty and other popuar causes of the day

The not yet established noxious and prohibitive noxious weeds are a serious matter to everyone who finds themselves
with an additional difficult weed problem....and that deserves the full arsenel of weapons available to control and limit the infestation.

With only clipping the tops off; does anyone really think they can look in the mirror and congratulate themselves on being an adequate land steward or neighbor.

And would those persons also deny a neighbor a buffer zone ( of glyphosate resistant alfalfa etc)that might help contain a disaster on neighboring quarters sections. Those situations do exist, and in some cases it almost appears that it is viewed a deserveable punishment.

There will always be weeds...a variety of them...but it isn't natures way to have everyone of those species everywhere..... and finally it is folly to not allow attempting control at the earliest stages....using every means that is available..

[hobbyfrmr]

And there you have it folks....In the mean time and in between time... Another edition of Stampede Wrestling..

Im not sure why that jumped into my head.
All good points stated.
Judging from some posts I am starting to wonder if my neighbors may want to lynch me! Im going to send my helper to coffee row tomorrow morning.

[oneoff]

With the level of intolerance and indifference shown amongst farmers it jumps to my head that the situaution compares to adhering to the gospels of organized religion over the ages.

Now there is a gospel of supposed environmental concern; health fanaticism; the gospel of personal interests even at the expense of society and running around the globe to meet neighbors that people would never cross the street to see for a simple visit at home.

Certainly no invovelment in democratic decision making ....except deliberately choosing those who are likely to do best for you....even if it is obviously at the expense of others.


And only the odd person says there were some good points....but no one dares say what those points are.....or very few would chance add to the bebate for fear of being lynched by neighbors.

And thats a good analysis....because at the minimum there are many who would suggest behind your back that is exactly what should happen.

[oneoff]

Ask any grass seed grower what inseperable seeds mean to a reputable seed business.

Think about the noxious weed seeds that are the same size as a tint alfalfa seed.

If you don't have those night flowering catchfly seeds on your property or white cockle or leafy spurge or scentless chamomile then just remember that when they get introduced through deliberate and inconsiderate cheapness or whatever grossly inconsiderate driving force then you will understand a bit about stewardship and accountability protecting food growing assets for consumers and farming industry.

On the other hand if you have a lucrative outlet for any weed seed production; if organic farming is admittedly currently small scale and providing a tiny fraction of food supplies;

then someone tell me what the conclusion is to be swallowing the supposed solution to "organic" instantly being an alternative to all the supposed farming mistakes made since advent of 2,4-D powders about 1948.

And just for information...the local Agicultural Society was successful in lining up about 1200 pounds of that weed control powder for distribution back in those days.

And the rest is history????


Must have been an identified need. Now was that a mistake? I'm sure that younger people would quickly agree. I'd like to know how the chuck types weigh in etc.''''but then again they weren't yet born and are only interested in how it benefits/impacts a niche markket for high priced fussy eaters. In fact they have never been exposed to history nor critically analysed both sides (and more importantly....the facts)

Trying to soar like an eagle when flying with turkeys could be depressing

[oneoff]

Oh And the answer to the noxious weed effect on registered grass seed growers is that the grass seed growing in the area is destroyed.

[oneoff]

Oh And the answer to the (inseperable) noxious weed effect on registered grass seed growers is that the grass seed growing in the area is destroyed.

Sorry missed out the term describing that which can't be adequately cleaned out