Latest Liberal promise

[chuckChuck]

The following link gives an overview of BCs carbon tax.

http://www.fin.gov.bc.ca/tbs/tp/climate/carbon_tax.htm

According to them it is revenue neutral. Lower taxes for individuals and businesses offset the carbon tax.

[chuckChuck]

Klause: so NASA is wrong? Perhaps you believe the moon landing was a hoax as well?
The oil we produce was created over millions of years. Releasing a large amount of stored carbon in oil in a relatively few years by burning fossil fuels is the problem. The carbon cycle is pretty basic science. Measuring CO 2 levels is well established science.

Your statement about flooding from sea level increases not being a problem sums up your lack of understanding of the whole issue. Miami for example will lose a lot of the city to flooding. London, New York, most coastal cities will have problems that will Cost billions and billions. Many small island countries are expecting to disappear.

This is a very serious issue for the planet. Most humans and politicians are unable to think long term. But the consequences of ignoring the problem and hoping it will go away are foolish.
All around you are governments and scientists and businesseswho are taking this issue seriously.
Why would the major car companies be moving towards electric or fuel cells if we can keep burning endless supplies of oil?

[chuckChuck]

Hamloc. So sea level rise is not a serious problem? Common sense would suggest otherwise.

[dmlfarmer]

So Klause, I take it by your response to my question that as I expected you have no scientific data to support your claim about volcanos and forest fires.

And as far Universal Law of Energy Conservation, the only way this supports your statement is if you believe we have hundreds of millions of years of fossil fuel available to burn. After all if fossil fuel were created from the decomposition of plants from the energy they captured from the sun as most believe, it happened over since plants began growing. Yet what percentage of fossil fuels has man used over the last century?

And the Universal theory has no bearing at all if you think that fossil fuels are being created underground.

Btw, did the leaking methane well drill itself or did man drill the well. How can you blame nature for a well man drilled and cannot control.

[dmlfarmer]

Klause, if oceans rise 20 feet as happened the last time global tempertures were 2 degrees C higher it is estimated 150 million people would be displaced. 85 million Chinese would be looking for a new home. Maybe they could move to your farm, and Hamloc and Burnt's too seeing as you all seem to feel a little warming would be good. And if you don't want Chinese how about Vietnamese, Indian, Indonesians or Bangladeshians as these are the top 5 countries where displacement of people will occur.
Want the full list, it is published in Scientific American which is a lot more credible than the wild theories you are trying to support your claims.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sea-level-could-rise-at-least-6-meters/

[dmlfarmer]

Klause, if oceans rise 20 feet as happened the last time global tempertures were 2 degrees C higher it is estimated 150 million people would be displaced. 85 million Chinese would be looking for a new home. Maybe they could move to your farm, and Hamloc and Burnt's too seeing as you all seem to feel a little warming would be good. And if you don't want Chinese how about Vietnamese, Indian, Indonesians or Bangladeshians as these are the top 5 countries where displacement of people will occur.
Want the full list, it is published in Scientific American which is a lot more credible than the wild theories you are trying to support your claims.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/sea-level-could-rise-at-least-6-meters/

[mustardman]

We get over half of our Oxygen from Phytoplankton in the oceans.

As the excess carbon dioxide enters the ocean it is Changing the ph and it is becoming More Acidic

This makes coral die and any shell creature unable to build a shell as the carbolic acid dissolves it
If the oceans die ... Yep we do too

[seabass]

Yes Chuck. My relatives in Holland say it is getting higher but historically it has been higher. Apparently. I or u wouldnt know but scientists say that was the case. So I would say the effects of what u or I are doing is not having as big of an effect on the climate if there are considerably more people now than there were 500 years ago. I dont think there were many gas guzzlers back then either.
As far as all these companies reducing there emissions by 2050. Who cares? Most of us wont be around to give a shit anyway. My kids will probably be saying what the hell were they thinking by wasting all that money on something they couldnt control anyhow. I truly believe that these people who spew this shit are not out to convince u or me. But our kids are the ones that will just eat it up because they have heard it since they were born. I guess the more rumors u hear about someone or something it must mean they are true.

[farmaholic]

Ok. I can't imagine there is enough water frozen into the polar ice caps that if it were to all melt would raise sea levels 20 feet.

What percent of the earths surface is covered by the polar ice caps.... I have a hard time believing it would go up 20 feet.

And on "fossil" fuels... I don't think they are fossil related at all. I think they are a product of inner
earth activity...like I said in a previous thread, could be a condensate of gases that change form to "liquid" when the temperature(as they rise to the earth's surface) is no longer hot enough to keep
them in their gas state.


Go ahead and laugh at my hypothesis. The earth
was once thought to be flat too.

Maybe I should heed the advice of "keeping one's mouth shut and be thought a fool, than open it and remove all doubt.

[stonepicker]

Farmaholic, i agree with your sound logic on both subjects! Sounds to simple so it must not be true! lol

[dmlfarmer]

Farmaholic: I too questioned the rise of oceans by the melting of the polar ice caps. However, I did not consider the impact of thermal expansion of existing ocean water as well. It is a fact water expands when heated. Why else do we need pressure caps and coolant expansion tanks on engines. Even a degree of rise in temperature of 1C will rise sea levels of more than 2 meters because when 71% of the earths surface is water, some of it miles deep, even a slight rise in temperature results in a thermal expansion rise. Couple this with not only the melting at the poles but also melting of glaciers around the world and ocean rise is not only beliveable but likely.

[Klause]

dmlfarmer, if every chunk of ice melted all over the planet, the oceans would rise 216 feet....

HOWEVER... this comes from the Antartic melting... which interestingly, it's actually expanding.

The ice in the artic is floating on water... it wouldn't have much effect on the height of the oceans.

The "rise" that alarmists are talking about comes from the fact that as water warms up, its volume becomes greater (like overflow in a hot engine when you fill the rad when it is cold).



DML, I didn't "cite" sources because we could spend millenia arguing back and forth. Google my figures and you'll find I didn't pick them out of the air.

Anyways, I'm done arguing about something that can't be helped and can't really be changed.

Humans haven't walked this planet long enough to effect anything... our existence on this planet, and in this universe is so short in relativity to everything else we can't cause any lasting problems anyway...


All the CO2 we burn / create / use was on earth and from earth, it goes round and round, but it can't become more, and it can't become less... That is the main fact nobody EVER looks at when it comes to these climate change yahoos.


Oh, and the reason that pipe is spewing methane? Us idiot humans keep building infrastructure over top of the gaps of tectonic plates. It was bound to happen, and actually gas naturally leaks when earth quakes fracture the earth's crust... tiny cracks let out huge amounts of gasses.

[Klause]

Oh, and the reason we need caps on radiators is to keep pressure in.

You see, water boils at 1 atmosphere of pressure at 100c. If you raise the pressure of the water in a vessel it remains liquid to a higher temperature.... There's some basic chemistry for ya.

and glaciers melting won't add any water to the ocean, they already float there... most of their mass is under the water surface, and water expands when it freezes....

[stonepicker]

dml I think i'll call bullshit on your last post about 1C warmer water will raise the oceans 6 1/2 feet. I'm thinking there would be a noticed difference in sea level everytime el nino or la nina hit ( and yes i know the 2 phenomon don't cover all ocean water )

[stonepicker]

ya! what klause said!