Farmlead.com organic feed oats

[parsley]

When you buy phosphorus, for example, does it
come from a mined source, or are you creating
imitation phosphorus in your lab in your shop?

[wd9]

Parsely, Can you put down P K S from a
mined source in organic farming?

Sure tough to get a straight answer!

[TOM4CWB]

WD9,

It is not like the p2o5 k2o S2 is leaving the planet....

Just can't wait till Suzuki tells us we need to get fert
from recycled human body parts... that will bring a
whole new meaning to 'ashes to ashes' and 'dust to
dust'!
Could be happening over some of our farms now... you
never know what those airplanes flying overhead could
be spreading!

It is reasonable to remind you WD9... that there are
over 2000 year old farms that have very productive
soils!

Cheers!

[parsley]

My plants certainly do "mine" elements from the
soil, according to their need. They decide what
they need, and extract what they need. In our
part of the world, we call it growing.

You like to think of it as mining.

You have acknowledged that nitrogen is self-
manufactured through rotation. Would it be to
your liking to say that the air "mines" the
nitrogen from the sainfoin?

Your plants are machine-fed various elements in
amounts you approximate, which are mined from
some company's cache' in a different locale of
the world.

I will assume you also call this mining.

Nitrogen must also applied to your plants

In both cases, your plants and mine, plants
require nutrients. I let my plant do it themselves,
whereas you choose to do it for them.

In the organic system, the soil is naturally
replenished with nitrogen through rotation. Deep
nutrients such as selenim are drawn up and used
by the plant. I know my plant is smarter than me.

In depth testing university testing has been done
on the nurtitional content of crops, focusing on
specific elements, comparing both agronomic
systems, which was a stark comparative exercise
that made me realize plants are clever if they are
not encouraged to be fat lazy kids who eat only
junk food.

In your system, nitrogen is purchased and
applied, according to your recipe, and various
mined elements are also applied, depending
upon what the trend is, what you can afford and
what the weather allows.

I note that nitrogen and all of the elements will
still be available for me to purchase if I find our
trees are collapsing under their own weight, wild
oats will no longer grow, and alfalfa blooms when
it is one inch high.

And of course, I know I can always count on
your counsel if our soils begin to decline. I
assume the soils, of cultures who have farmed
for thousands of years, must have been revived
by an expert . Pars.

[parsley]

Bottom line: You pick your method of farming and
I'll pick mine. You be responsible for repairing
your messes and I'll repair mine. I have no urge
to fight with your choices unless it hurts me.

I understand why claiming organic farmers are
mining the soil is a goal of the companies who
sell inputs. Why wouldn't it be. Stockpile all the
potash from K1 at Esterhazy on your farm if you
have reoccurring depletion nightmares.

File your argument, Wd. so I can rewatch last
nIght' s UFC. Pars.

[wd9]

Odd response.

By all means, keep doing what you're
doing. I'm not trying to convince you
otherwise, I was hoping you could even a
tiny bit back up the organic holistic
natural healthy farming regeneration
from somewhere (but can't explain to
someone as unenlightened as me) no
inputs required method of farming.

Frustrating!!!!!!!!

[hobbyfrmr]

wd9, Parsley pretty much sums it up. If you really want to learn more, do an internet search and you can read for a week straight. NewAGTalk is an American site like this, but plenty more agronomy information in the Crop Talk section. Plenty of scenarios, good and bad. If you dont agree, then go to the store and invest in more crop protection/production.
I agree with Pars, industry will call it mining or any other bad thing. This way, the "good" farmer will continue to buy product thinking he is doing good and the organic is bad. Us against Them. Same old song. It works great. This way the conventional guy aways has someone more inadequate than themselves to be criticized.
Something else I find, is, that the conventional farmers are more than happy to pay big dollars to rent that nasty, dirty, weed polluted, no fertility, mined out land when the organic farmer retires. I know some big organic farms in sask just left the industy, leaving a vacuum of 220,000 bushels of milling oats and 90,000 bushels of feed barley that will never be organic.
I am very happy for them.

I like discovering organic feed oats bids of $6.25/bushel delivered to SW Manitoba, and relaying it on a marketing thread. I think that is a good bid.

[hobbyfrmr]

That should read, the big organic farms left organic production, went back to conventional production.

[nibs1]

I had a good sized conventional grain farm,had full bins piles of grain on the ground, still could not pay for the inputs got tired of working for the" company's " so went organic and have never looked back, love what i am doing way more relaxing.When my neighbors are out working late in the spring and fall we are usually done and enjoying life. I seed the crop and plow down crop in one pass then work the plow down in the next year. I grow HRSW and am getting 13% protein,just had a call last week looking for wheat under 13% AT $16 picked up no dockage.I can live with that.Organic is not for everyone but dont knock it until your try it I have done both and wont go back.

[wd9]

No point asking anymore. Every search for
scientific articles on the matter always
end up the same:

Expectations about the superiority of
organic farming methods with respect to
nutrient use efficiency, soil fertility,
nitrate leaching and nutrient recycling
are not justified by scientific studies.