Harvesting in the Snow...

[parsley]

Vader,

The CWB, first and foremost, has a duty to uphold the legislation that gives it authority. Has the CWB done this? Taking farmers' money to license corporations isn't following the law. Did some of the Directors know they were breaking the law? They certainly did, but they decided that what they wanted to do was more important than what Parliament instructed them to do. Were they a preponent of breaking the law? I'd be interested in your answer to that one. Is the Minister apreponent of breaking the law because he allowed the CWB to break the law? The Minister IS ultimately responsible for what the Board does, of course.


By requiring farmers to do the buyback as a pre-requisite to getting a license, the Board of Directors are asking farmers to do something that Parliament does not. HOw about a cash under the table to get an export license kind of requirement? Would that be acceptable? How about a donation to the Hell's Angels and you can have a license? Because the buyback is not something Parliament requires, it is a cooked-up Wheat Board requirement. Farmers have reason to distrust.

Am I a preponent of breaking the law? No.


In this case, have the farmers broken the law?
1. The buyback is not a requirement so a farmer can hardly get thrown in jail for not doing an act that is not required in law.

2. The farmers have not broken the law for not having an export license when it is simply never available to them (even though the licensing requirements apply equally across Canada to all Applicants).

Parsley

[Vader]

Parsley,

The law? What is the law? From time to time people go to jail who do not deserve to go to jail. We have seen that in Canada. Were they martyrs? Generally not. There was in fact a miscarriange of justice.

I see that we as a society are trying to undo what was done to Louis Riel. Too little? Too late? Perhaps.

The law is generally based on what society deems to be right or wrong. Over time courts establish precendent which should reflect the general will of the people. If the law is wrong that becomes a legislative process which again will reflect the will of the majority.

If the courts say you are wrong over and over again, then for the time being you are wrong in the context of the current law. If you choose to go to jail voluntarily for breaking that law then you are a martyr. There are probably more constructive ways to effect change. My sympathy goes out to the martyrs. I do feel sorry for them because they have chosen to be martyrs.

[TOM4CWB]

Vader;

I seem to remember a famous line, that was spoken by a famous person...2000 years ago...

And what was it?


WHAT IS TRUTH.

AND Pontius Pilate then decreed the innocence of the charged person.

But this fellow got crucified anyway.

Just because a court and lawyers say the law allows twisted actions by those who are in power, does not mean that the law is ethically or morally justifiable or helpful for society!

In the CWB Code of Conduct, the CWB Directors have sworn to make sure the CWB is applied in a manner that is morally and ethically responsible, and in a manner that respects personal freedom and personal property.

Just tell me Vader, how does the previous statement protect my personal property and freedom?

Are the CWB Directors living up to their personal responsibility to respect the needs each and every "designated area" farmer, over which they have power?

Since the Buy-back is strictly CWB Policy, and not required by the CWB Statute, doesn't this mean that CWB Directors even have a stronger responsibility (are even more liable)?

[Vader]

If you are to be respected does that give you the right to hurt other people?

Just because you are respected does not necessarily give you the right to speed down the highway.

And if I am the one saying that you can't speed down the highway does that imply that I don't respect you?

I don't think that respect for each other is where the problem lies.

It is easy to identify a problem. It is much harder to come up with real solutions that respect everyone rather than just a few.

[TOM4CWB]

Vader you said;

“It is easy to identify a problem. It is much harder to come up with real solutions that respect everyone rather than just a few.”

Think of the “What is truth” story…

Pontius Pilate decreed the innocence of the charged person, that he had done nothing worthy of death. In fact Pontius Pilate wanted to release this fellow, as was the tradition at the festival holiday they were observing.

What did the legal people and judicial court ruling the people say?

It was expedient for them (those in control of the people), that one man should die, so the whole nation (as they envisioned it) would not perish.

When Pontius Pilate heard;
If you let this fellow go, you are not … Caesar’s friend….,

Then… whoever makes himself a king speaks against Caesar (even though this fellow had already declared he had no interest in an Earthly Kingdom).

Ultimately Pontius Pilate ordered this fellow’s death, and he was crucified.

Not because he did anything wrong. The judgement clearly stated he had no fault.

Pontius Pilate killed an innocent man, the best man that ever lived, the man who cared… about the average person… more than anyone who ever lived…

He was killed so those …People in position and power…, could maintain their own self interest ahead of those they were obligated to serve.

What does history tell us about these People that put this fellow to death?

All of them, in the end lost all of their kingdoms.

If the rights of the few are not recognised, and respected,… then there are no rights left for anyone.

[TOM4CWB]

Vader;

You quoted Minister Goodale...

"As long as I have been minister I have never given the Canadian Wheat Board a direction. I believe its authority should rest with farmers. UNQUOTE"

Minister Goodale made the CWB sign the transportation and tendering Memorandum of Understanding agreement, he obviously has a very short memory...

You say...

"If you were the collective "people of Canada". And if you were paying $3.50 in subsidies for every dollar of net farm income, and if you were guaranteeing the borrowing of the CWB and if you had the legislation that said that you got to approve the CWB business plan, would that make sense?"

Vader, just how long would this world operate without food...

One would have thought that with as unstable as the environment has become, that you would be just a little concerned that someone somewhere is going to run out of food in the next year.

The industrial world is profitable, as is the rest of society... as long as there is a cheap plentiful supply of food... and the CWB has been key to the cheap food policy since its inception.

I know Vader that you understand this, which is so surprising that you would take an industrialists perspective!

Agriculture is ...not... simply overburden to get rid of, which hinders the industrialists mining of our planets physical and intellectual resources.

Society only can enjoy intellectual and cultural advancements, when there is enough food available that spare time becomes available so society CAN enjoy the planet around us.

A society with an unstable food supply is a very unstable society.

I should not have to tell you that we have the least expensive food supply in North America, of anywhere on the planet, measured against disposable income.

I never dreamt in a thousand years, that I would ever be explaining and justifying our farmer's existence, in western Canada, TO YOU VADER.


DO you realize what you have written on this thread?

[Vader]

TOM4CWB,

Perhaps you missed my post on the other thread so here goes again,

posted Oct 26, 2002 6:50
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TOM4CWB,

Help me understand what you are saying about Columbia grain.

How many tonnes/bushels of grain did you sell? What location did you deliver to? What grade did they assign? Was you grain graded in Canada and if so what grade was assigned? How much was your check for?

[Everest]

Vader,

Here is a question YOU did not answer. I know you didn't miss it, but here it is again.



posted Oct 25, 2002 19:09
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Dear Vader,

You say, "Anyone can market into the US and beat the CWB average. ANYBODY!!"

You seem quite emphatic about it. And I agree with you 100%.

Canadian farmers can beat it. US farmers too.

That is why on this side of the border a majority of farmers support a voluntary CWB. As you say, an open market delivers more money than the CWB single desk.

Your observation is absolutely bang on.

So why, as it seems, do you support and insist on a policy of strict adherance to the monopoly mantra?

Sincerely,
Everest

[TOM4CWB]

Vader;

AS I stated earlier,

I have exported 1, 3CWRS, 1CWES, and 1CPS, and since I did the buy-back on all but the Certified seed, the buy-back requires the grain to be sold to the CWB, which requires it be graded in Canada.

When I sold these wheat products, to Columbia Grain at Meriwether MT., they were always graded my the MT. state official grader, load by load.

I sold about 20,000bu, worth a good sum, enough that FIDP complained that I could not get the prices I did, that these sales inflated my margins for FIDP/AIDA coverage... even though all the income was reported correctly for income tax, as required by the Cdn. CCRA.

As I indicated to you earlier, I was paid the posted price at the Columbia grain elevator, in US$, and recieved nothing more than US growers recieved during this time period.

And during 1997,98,99... the CWB was complaining about the glut of wheat on the world markets... including high US stock levels, which the CWB complained were dragging down Canadian wheat prices.

Yet I was simply paid US Seattle export price, and it did not matter that my wheat was consumed domestically in the US PNW, I recieved world export price.

During these three years the CWB WAS undercutting the US of A in the US domestic market. I recieved buyback profits which meant that the CWB was selling for less than the pooled price, at some points at the initial price.
Therefore the pecuniary benefit enuring to the applicant explains why the buy-back cannot be CWB Part IV licensing.

NO Where in the CWB Act does it enable the CWB to PAY ME for issuing an export license to me.

What the CWB is doing is wrong, and your saled dept, knows full well what they are doing is wrong, with regard to PART IV.

Further as I stated before, the selling price for my grain, was never even disclosed to the CWB, and was not part of the information flow back to either CCRA or the CWB, the sales value reported was the Buy-back price, not what I recieved from Columbia Grain.

Again, the CWB sales Dept. knows this does not match Part IV requirements, yet the CWB does not care what I get in the US, they have the Producer Direct Sales Price, and that is it; again not consistant with Part IV of the CWB Act.

By Law the CWB is required to maintain a North American price, which means the price inside and outside Canada MUST remain the same, again proving the CWB Part IV is not the buy-back.

If I do not offer my grain to the CWB, by Sections 32 or 39, then the CWB has no duty or obligation to market it. It is that simple. Before I offer my grain to the CWB, it is no different than Creston or Ontario grain that the CWB issued free export licenses for.

You already knew all of this Vader.

[Vader]

We all seem to be holding our cards very close to our chest.

What I am trying to get at is who sells their grain to US customers at a higher price, TOM4CWB or the CWB.

It is very hard to say since neither one seems willing to divulge this information directly, instead implying that these prices are posted and anyone can find them for themselves.

At some point in time both parties must lay their cards on the table and the answer will become self evident.

I simply believe as a basic economic principal that the more sellers of a commodity that there are the more cheaply the buyer will be able to acquire that commodity.