this seed thing is just bad ,bad bad,

[Braveheart]

I do like Parsley's suggestion re saving some traditional seed.

I always like a contingency plan, and hate being held captive.

[Braveheart]

To my earlier post, we always have choices. We don't have to grow what they're selling.

Also, how much different is UPOV91 from the PBR royalties we already pay?

[farmaholic]

Now there is a interesting twist.

If you can get a quality guarantee that would be worth something... Good luck though.

[bucket]

I watched alot of number one durum downgraded to a 5 even after all the sprayer passes.

Mother nature rules.

[SASKFARMER3]

Wow tweety you live in a world of your own. Another business model will emerg FM when once you loose something have farmers ever got value back. Once it's gone were F$&krd. Plain and simple.
Canola proves it those that don't realize are mostly newbys to the canola game. Now we get 60 once in a while before we got 50 once in a while. Both will give 12 if turn hot before and new super varieties.
Only thing different they deregulated all others before and now U.S. farmers are F$&ked.

[Lex]

Saving traditional seed isn't going to do you any good when the new variety of disease sets in. That's where the new rules come unto play.

The new variety will have disease resistance and the old variety will be ruined. Mother nature evolves. It has always been like this. The first varieties of wheat grown in Canada were susceptible to rust and were no longer economical. Breeding developed rust resistant varieties and the while industry moved to the new varieties and farmers were successful. It will always be so and that is THE MOST IMPORTANT REASON FOR PLANT BREEDING!! Sure yield increases are nice too. But without disease resistance we have nothing.

Where did these disease resistant varieties cine from? Public plant breeding programs. The government paid fir this and the entire country prospered and benefited from the farmers ability to grow healthy crops for export. And you must recognize that we export 80% of what we grow which creates foreign exchange dollars so the average non-farming citizen can buy his iPad and his denim jeans and bananas and every other thing we import. I'm not saying there are not other industries that produce foreign exchange, but agriculture is a big one.

So getting back to disease resistance. You go right ahead and grow your traditional varieties and keep your own seed as long as that is working for you. And it may work for a long time. But ut won't work forever. I hope history has taught us that. You can bet your bittom dollar the seed companies are betting in it. And they have pushed their agenda to create a new "value capture model" as I heard a government official (lackie) refer to it.

The government position is that to keeo pace in a modern competitive world we need big dollars invested. The government believes that the only people with those kind of dollars and expertise are the big corporations. From there they conclude that these corporations need two things to enter the game. They will not compete with the government, so the government must get out of the business. And as you see they have taken large steps to eliminate government involvement in plant breeding and research. The secind thing that is required is the "value capture model" and so we have Bill C-18.

They (the government) has been leading a dog and pony show to convince everybody how much we need the protection of UPOV-91 and how we needn't worry about being completely powerless. And dont worry because "end point royalties" are not spelled out in the legislation. Please believe us (the givernment) that end point royalties could only come into effect by regulation after consultation and due process.

Have you heard that before?

So this "value capture model". Who creates this value? Where dies the money come from? Where does all the money come from that these "seed companies" bring to the table? Well it will come from your seed sales and purchases. And what else will your seed sales and purchases pay for besides the development of newer and better varieties? Well just loik at the canola business.

Collectively we plant 20 million acres if canola. We are spending at least $10.00 per pound on about 5 pounds per acre. So in this "value capture model" we are contributing ONE BILLION DOLLARS per year to this seed improvement model. Are we getting our moneys worth? Definitely not. Only 8% goes to plant breeding. The rest goes to shareholders dividends, CEO bonuses and the like. And the yield improvements have not been as good as what we have seen from our publicly funded wheat breeding program.

So who creates value? Farmers create value. Every other segment of the industry dips their hands into your pocket to "share the wealth". You and I pay for every new plant variety with our hard earned cash. We pay for every lab, every plant breeder, every field plot, every CEO salary, every board member and his fancy supper meeting, every dividend check to shareholders, every fancy ad campaign, every farm show display and the hats and pens they give away. We pay fir it all. Every nickle and dime. Why? Because we gave them the power.

So how do we take it back?

Lets start with the Wheat Development Commissions. How much are we farmers contributing towards the development of new varieties today. Well in the case of the Saskatchewan Commission about 5 million dollars per year. Its not enough. Its not nearly enough. People complain about spending 50 cents a tonne or a dollar when you include WGRF. That's a buck an acre. That certainly isn't the value capture model that interests the corporate seed companies. They want MUCH MUCH more from us. They think we can afford $50 an acre. And where did they get that idea. Well from canola, that's where.

Sooner or later we are going to end up paying a lot more for wheat breeding and there are two ways that can play out. Either you start paying to set up a farmer owned and controlled plant breeding company where the dividends come back to you the farmer/owner, or you do nothing and end up losing complete control to the corporations and end up paying way more for a system designed to rob you.

Your call.

Start attending the meetings. Ask for the checkoff to be increased. Ask for the formation of a farmer owned plant breeding company. Ask that your check off funds be shown as your share value.

Lets get this thing rocking and rolling before its too late and we can no longer get our hands in the germ plasm. Before the seed companies claim that everything they own is "essentially derived" and nothing we produce can be called our own.

If you cant wait to attend a meeting, send an email to SWDC. Send a cc to the government ministers. Tell the government that you are pissed off and that you won't take it any more!

[vvalk]

Sask3. You keep saying canola sucks but yet in the thread about where you will tighten you talk about putting more canola back in because it's lower risk and safer. Ya canola model really sucks. No one has made any money growing canola the last 10 year, 5 years or 2 years. Farmers forcing it in every 2 years or every year because they just don't make any money at it.
You also talk about how great soybeans are and can't wait for the new short term varieties. I bet those are coming from the public breeders. Lastly comparing canola and cereal models is ridiculous. Nothing similar about them. As for end point royalties, the breeder wouldn't make a cent unless farmers plant their seed because it makes them a greater return. All I see on these threads I'd a the nfu coming up with a bunch of scare tactics and no facts

[vvalk]

Btw fusarium resistant wheat actually exists. How nice would that be last year? How many $100 of millions lost never mind health issues. We dump wheat in holes and cover it up and people go hungry.

[bucket]

Vvalk

What happens in a case like Syngenta corn and the country/end user refuses to let it in?

Who pays for market disruptions?

I know who paid for the flax incident and I am not sure farmers created the problem? But who cleans up the mess in a commercial environment for seed?

[bucket]

Vvalk

These are not questions that should be left until after the fact to be answered.


I am still testing flax years after the fact that I never used that particular variety but somehow it ended up in other varieties by the seed developer?

Now some need testing on the seed used and the production as well.

Who paid?

Not real fond of where the ultimate cost is sent.

It's just an example but it would be nife to know who is responsible. If this is where we are heading.

[farming101]

Agreed, Canola is nothing like wheat. Wheat is grown in every corner of the world, it's ordinary.

The uptake of canola by the world markets has been a win win for canadian farmers and the whole industry.

The marketing problems that have come along since the 2013 bumper crop should convince everyone that we don't need higher yielding wheat grown from designer seed. True, disease resistance should be the focus of wheat breeding.

How much money is needed to advance wheat breeding? Does anyone really know? WGRF says that 193 new PUBLIC wheat and barley varieties have been introduced since 1995. What? Are none of them of any value?

The WGRF banked 8.68 million in just the wheat fund last year. If it is desperately needed to advance wheat breeding why wasn't it spent? Maybe the directors couldn't find anything to spend it on.

[farmaholic]

We will have to share the lost hundreds of millions of dollars that will be regained with the patent holders of those miracle seeds. Hopefully they won't promise the world and deliver "suppression" instead of resistance for a small fortune. Just like the "fun"gicides claim of suppression only for $15/ac. Can you imagine what "control" would cost? How much do you think we'll be able to keep?

I want a dry cycle for a while. Maybe less bushels of quality grain for more money. Careful what I wish for...

[Braveheart]

Vvalk, by fusarium resistant wheat, do you mean Emerson cwrw? Last year in our area Emerson was a complete write off due to fus. Ouch.

[vvalk]

No it's sitting on a shelf. Yes GMO wheat should not come to market until all our major markets accept it just like canola. North America will not be where GMO wheat is first grown. It will be china and Africa and my bet it already is being grown there

[Braveheart]

I just wish the focus was on output traits vs the input gmo traits I know they're working on.