marketing cattle

[cowman]

I think Australia can probably produce beef as good as any country in the world, after all a cow is a cow wherever she comes from? I do believe the vast majority of the beef we get from them is going into a market that would be compatible with our cull cow market, though? Manufacturing beef.
Now I'm not sure how Australia can even compete with 25 cent Canadian cows, but who knows? After the shenanigans revealed in their wheat deals....? Don't forget Australia was the place they sent every scoundrel and rogue from England? Maybe the old apples didn't fall too far from the tree!
Willowcreek: I have no problem with MCOOL...except for one problem? It is more designed to be a barrier to American packing plants than any kind of "protecting and informing" the American consumer! It really is nothing more than another protectionist measure!
The fact is every box of beef that comes from Canada has the "product of Canada" stamp on it? Maybe you should be getting on your own meat business...if they are removing that stamp? Don't you have any laws?
And furthermore, only a small portion of Canadian beef would be subject to MCOOL? Certainly not enough to justify the economics of segregrating Canadian cattle on the slaughter line! Nope, sorry, this is nothing more than an end run to protect your domestic cattle business...?
The last thing is you don't have an ID system in place...and it looks like you have no intention of implementing one! Wasn't it R-CALF that said "Don't burden us with traceback"?

[Willowcreek]

cowman-- You are right about not having a law-- After the passage of NAFTA, the Packers found a loophole in the USDA rules and began using it to pass off imported meat as US meat...M-COOL is the law that closes that loophole and makes the Packer/Retailer be truthful....

As far as a US M-ID system-- its unnecessary for M-COOL-- as everything currently imported is/has to be marked to origin...We just need to require the Packer/retailer to carry that thru to the consumer....

All M-COOL is is a law that requires Packer/Retailers to tell the truth...

[farmers_son]

MCOOL is a law that would see Canadian beef only sold in restaurants and processed beef. Even U.S. packers would have to segregate Canadian beef from U.S. product. The penalties are so great that no packer, processor, retailer would touch Canadian product for fear of being in contravention of MCOOL.

It is not a matter of Canadian beef competing for market share with U.S. beef. It is a matter of Canadian beef not getting the chance to compete.

[kato]

The only winners I see here are the big U.S. owned plants in Canada. MCool will make it harder for their competition to handle Canadian cattle, so they will have an even bigger captive market here. That would hurt us for a certain amount of time, but in the long run, they will build capacity to handle all the beef they can possible move into the States.

Shut down a couple of old plants in the States, and Cargil could carve out another way to make money buy investing here. No need to ship to the States to kill, just build more capacity here.

The segregation would take place here at the American owned packing plants. Just kill it here, label it here, and market it in the U.S.

If they can drive the Canadian price down as low as I suspect they can, we'd have a price advantage over American beef in the beginning. Then after people tried Canadian beef, and realized the quality, they would not hesitate to buy it again.

I don't see anything in this scenario that helps any cattle producers on either side of the border.

Be careful what you ask for......

[Willowcreek]

Kato-- I'm sure that is the reason the US plants have spent millions $ trying to kill M-COOL--LOL- What a joke...

If you truly think that will be the result of the M-COOL law going into effect-- then why are you so worried about it? EH

Canucks wouldn't be whinin, cryin, or bitchin so much about M-COOL and the US consumers being told the truth, if they didn't know that its going to stop their free ride on the US producers shirttails and slow up their little gravy train ride...Someday you have to go out in the big real world on your own without big brother holding your hand......

[cowman]

I suspect Kato might just be right?
Don't forget...very little Canadian product hits the retail shelf in the USA...and that is the only product affected by MCOOL? Most young stuff goes to the restaurant trade,the older cows went to the maunfacturing trade and institutional trade?
What happens if MCOOL comes into effect and when the OTM beef is allowed back in? Do you think institutions and manufacturing beef producers will buy those 25 cent cows from Canada...in a box...or pay twice as much for American cows?
It is very apparent Cargill and Tyson have no problem expanding up here...if they see a buck! They can use this border situation to their advantage?
Sure the American packer managers are going to squawk about MCOOL...why wouldn't they? They probably won't have a job if MCOOL comes in!
MCOOL is nothing more than a poorly thought out protectionist move? Designed for one purpose...to assure no Canadian cattle will be killed in an American packing plant? You just handed Cargill, Alberta and Tyson, Alberta a license to print money! Not too smart R-CALF!

[farmers_son]

I would also point out to supporters of MCOOL that most if not all the Canadian beef that can be kept out of the market in the United States will be replaced by even cheaper non-NAFTA product from Australia (the Americans new trading partner) and of course South America.

I think most American producers are aware that the price they receive for live cattle bears little resemblance to the price paid in the retail cooler anyway. All the benefits of MCOOL will be reaped by those further up the value chain while the costs of MCOOL are born by the producer.

As I pointed out earlier in this thread, U.S. protectionism was one of the driving factors of the great depression. The American producer cannot successfully maintain higher prices for their live cattle by creating sources of lower priced live cattle next door in Canada.

[cowman]

MCOOL is not a well thought out policy in regards to beef. It is more of a sop to the protectionists in the American beef business?
They seem to think by eliminating Canadian live cattle from their packing houses the packers will be forced to pay more for their cattle.
Unfortunately for them...beef can travel in a box! And MCOOL does not apply to the majority of that beef!
So what is really being accomplished here is this: The US beef producer is creating a situation where they have a super strong competitor across the border. Their own packers will not have a level playing field with the Canadian packers and thus will become less profitable? Less profits mean less money can be spent and will weaken the whole USA beef value chain!
I can very clearly see a day when the best markets for Montana calves will be the feedlots around Lethbridge? In reality it makes sense to feed and slaughter those calves in Alberta?
MCOOL is actually going to help the Canadian packers....in a BIG way!
I wonder if R-CALF members ever wonder why Cargill and Tyson chose to build packing houses in Alberta? I wonder what dreams they tell themselves, why they weren't built in Montana? Will they ever understand the Alberta feeder is so far ahead of them in being efficient...that they will never catch up? Do they understand that the western Canadian grain farmer is about as efficient as it gets!
Subsidies and protectionism will save you for a long time...or at least until the American consumer gets sick of it! Playing the health card, when in fact the real reason is you were getting your butt kicked, is the oldest protectionist trick in the book? That is R-CALF.

[Willowcreek]

Yep- Like I said-- Canucks wouldn't be whinin, cryin, and bitchin against M-COOL unless they knew it was going to actually make them do something on their own- like market their own beef...

The free gravy train and ride on the shirttails of the US cattlemans product will be gone...

[farmers_son]

Actually it is the American chicken producers who get the free ride. Chicken is exempt from MCOOL and chicken producers and chicken processors will not have to bear the cost of the regulatory burden associated with MCOOL.

It would be wise for the U.S. producer to carefully consider who their real competitors are. The U.S. chicken producer will never be an ally of the U.S. beef producer but the Canadian beef producer is a partner in the North American cattle/beef market.

The people who are bitchin and complaining are U.S. cattle producers who realize the cost of this program will be borne by them yet the benefits will accrue to the proceesors/retailers. The U.S. government is not putting MCOOL in place to help cattlemen anywhere.

[smcgrath76]

The Australian comments intrigue me. I have spent a fair amount of time in OZ and am very impressed with where they are going and what they are doing.
They do have a large portion of their herd that is bos indicus, but also a lot of bos taurus, and they are agressively targetting tenderness through genetics and management and processing research.
Grain finishing lots are one of the fastest growing industries in Australian agriculture, and they import a lot of North American genetics.
They have several large / extremely large producers requiring fewer people to mobilize to produce a larger supply, they have a better grading system (my personal thoughts) that is customer focused, and they have a business focus for their industry.
They also have a huge investment in research.
Take a google of some Aussie programs including stanbroke pastoral company, obibeef, and meat and livestock australia.
It is pretty impressive stuff and certainly the right track to make them competitive with us.

[smcgrath76]

sorry. should google obe beef.