Quebec cows?

[JD4ME]

This is turning into a long thread.As with most of the topics on here I feel youre all right to some degree. The question is implementation of these ideas. The biggest factor is deciding on a personal course of action be it small,selling three finished fats to friends, or large 5000 producers and 1000 tractors. Rememeber that the producers in Quebec face the same problems with enitrely diiferent mindsets and to a government that has a similiar mindset. They are doing what works in their situation and doing it well. I have had to ask my self what am I doing to try and address this ongoing and to my mind growing problem. I have made a game plan and I intend to stick to it, Both on the grain side and cattle side. I will deal with no one and add value to their operation unless they are adding value to mine. If I see that all I am doing is adding dollars to their bottom line without enhanceing my returns they are out. i.e auction marts that don't properly market my animals. Elevator companies that just want handlings on grains but aren't advising me of marketing opportunities that I may miss with my schedule and workload. Be it being part of a value chain or just by making them understand this is a two way relationship I can no longer let dollars leave our operation and support enitire industries without a return if I hope to survive. I have taken some serious looks at a couple of these value added producer owned packing plants over the summer and the concept of each were sound, however in the details of each was the fact that the people behind them were feathering their own nests with producer dollars yet again. If I see a opportunity that returns profits to producers and processors and doesn't siphon off the profits into meber and shareholder"Loans" in order to use our money to make theirs then I will be in with both feet. Keep the good discussion going I'm enjoying it. Thanks

[grassfarmer]

ivbinconned, I value my time too much to bother replying to your childish taunts.
Bez, you outlined what I believe is the answer and it is backed up by JD. Cut out middlemen, do not give your profits away. By realising that every other link in the chain of Ag production, banking, petrochemicals, machinery, processing and retailing are dominated by a handful of huge multinational corporations running monopolies we can make progress. Look for every possible means to trade without using these companies and our future could once again return to our hands. We must campaign constantly to get action from Government to end the scandal of Corporate control. I'm pleased to live in a Western Canada that will not resort to intimidating police and breaking the law to forward our aims. Better to be poor in a democracy than to live in a lawless, gangster ridden country.

[Bez]

Here is how it is dtarting in Ontario - Lanark Landowners Association - as reported in a local paper.

The Humm for December 2004
by Shaun McLaughlin


Rural revolution affects us all

Last Christmas my wife gave me "Citizenship Papers," a collection of essays
by Wendell Berry on rural life and the plight of the rural economy. Berry,
70, is a Kentucky farmer, poet, novelist, essayist, and former teacher. He
is a passionate advocate of agrarianism, which he describes as the only way
to bring prosperity back to farming and rural communities.

He maintains that global corporations and compliant governments abuse land
and the farmers and others dependent on the land. Farmers are abused by
being paid little for their products while having to pay a lot for the
tools and supplies to farm. The land is abused by corporate agriculture
that relies on genetically-modified monocultures and factory farms.

He believes that only those who depend directly on the local environment
for their livelihood (local farmers and loggers) can be true stewards of
the land. He says the only way these stewards can continue is if they can
maintain "economic self-determination"; that is, if they are allowed to
make a living.

What he proposes is "a revolt of local small producers and local consumers
against the global industrialism of the corporations." The agrarian ethic
involves communities of food producers and food buyers supporting each
other. It also encompasses local timber production for local markets.

His complaints and suggestions ring as true in Eastern Ontario as they do
in rural Kentucky. Our federal and provincial governments seem to have a
campaign in place to destroy the rural economy through unneeded and
ill-fitting regulations. There are many examples.

A decade ago, small-scale local egg producers were forced out of business
by a new regulation. It required them to build a grading station, a
separate building with its own power and plumbing. Few producers could
justify the $20,000 investment.

Over the last five years, several small Eastern Ontario abattoirs, such as
the one at Scotch Corners, had to close. Not because of tainted meat. It
was because they couldn't afford the investments required to meet
ever-escalating technical standards. Last year when the BSE scare left
local farmers with cattle they couldn't export, there weren't enough
slaughterhouses still open to process excess cattle for the local market.
Farmers were forced to feed them or sell them at a loss.

Currently, the Ontario government is closing down small sawmills because
some bureaucrats say their piles of sawdust are a pollution threat. The
science is suspect and the tactics unfair. Rather than prove their case,
the bureaucrats insist the operators pay tens of thousands of dollars to
consultants to prove they are clean.

These and other attacks on the rural business put people out of work,
reduce the strength of our local economy and make us more dependent on
spillover from distant economies over which we have no control.

The bureaucrats don't create these regulations in isolation. They take
advice from stakeholder committees that include representatives from big
businesses and business associations. No one truly represents the interests
of the local family farm or small-scale forestry operator.

It is this poisoned environment that caused the formation of the Lanark
Landowners' Association (LLA) over a year ago. They are in-your-face
defenders of the rural economy. While not everyone appreciates their style,
they are fulfilling Berry's vision of a revolt. This fall, the LLA staged
several "food strikes" where produce was sold by farmers directly to
consumers in defiance of various regulations and marketing boards.

On October 29, the LLA barricaded the entrances to the Kemptville offices
of the Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources (MNR) and the Ontario Minister
of Agriculture and Food (OMAF) with hundreds of bales of hay and farm
equipment. MNR and OMAF are sources of many regulations strangling the
rural economy. The police arrived and threatened arrest but eventually
backed down. The LLA then held one of their illegal food sales within sight
of the closed buildings.

On August 26, 100 LLA members lined up to prevent inspectors from the
Ministry of the Environment (MOE) from closing down Lanark Cedar in Ramsay.
The Ministry has since called off the dogs, for now.

Many more such displays of resistance are pending. And, the LLA's "rural
revolution" has now spread into neighbouring counties and is picking up
steam. They have met no credible government opposition. Yet!

Miss Mills outlets that sell feed, hardware, building supplies and farm
machinery get all or a major portion of their business from people who
farm. We need to protect and grow the agricultural sector. We can't just
rely on new bedroom communities to grow the local economy. There is plenty
of evidence that newcomers who work in Ottawa also spend primarily in
Ottawa. When rural people spend, they stay closer to home.

We, Council included, should send protests to Queen's Park and Parliament
Hill every time a useless regulation threatens the rural economy. Be revolting!
Thanks to Chris O'Brien at the Miller's Tale for recommending the book.

Shaun McLaughlin
RR#1 Pakenham
Ontario, Canada, K0A 2X0
613-256-9834

[wd40]

Dang you guys - I've got 'ADD' can't you keep your posts to 3 lines. LOL

[cowman]

Bez: I have to agree with a lot of what you say. The thing about useless regulations?...
While you and I and a whole lot of others might agree on what is "useless and outright silly", others might see it as necessary? A good example of this is everytime I raise the attitude that some new environmental law is ridiculous, I get a small lecture from Emerald or Linda or gwyneplain on these forums! Now this is okay, they are definitely entitled to their opinion, and in fact quite often I might see the errors of my ways!
However I do believe if we have to toe the line to a bunch of standards that some beurocrat dreams up for the "good of society" then everyone should share in that cost?
If I've been watering my cows in the springs for 100 years(And buffalo for centuries)and now the government decides that is no longer acceptable today...then who should pay? It certainly isn't hurting me! But someone in Edmonton seems to suddenly know more than all the people who ever lived here and so things need to change!
Okay...I can see that. The only problem is now I need to spend time and money fixing their problem!
The boy is going through the Environmental Farm plan thing right now...it is driving me crazy...even though we don't have a lot of changes to make! But without a doubt I'm having a lot of trouble with this thing about the springs. An added expense with no return in my opinion.

[Bez]

This is not original - and in fact I saw it somewhere else:

Ranching is darned difficult when the pencil running it is 1000 miles from the field.

Bez

[ivbinconned]

Your one thin skinned guy grassfarmer, I concur with most of what you post and only disagreed with your concept of a free and open market and you get all bent out of shape!!

grassfarmer quote: "Better to be poor in a democracy than to live in a lawless, gangster ridden country." What a silly comment.

Ever hear of "adscam"?? etc, etc, etc

You should start a new party. Since the rhinoceros party is gone you could start a new one called the Ostrich Party, with the great logo of the bird with its head down a gopher hole and its wallet being plucked!!

A fitting picture I think.

[kpb]

Bez, Wendell Berry makes for interesting reading and he has put out a pile of books. But, like a lot of other writers of his ilk, he advocates a return to smaller, "simple" agriculture that I feel is totally unrealistic in our world. He thinks that a small mixed farm can work--I don't think so.
After reading all your posts I must confess that I'm not sure exactly what you are advocating. If it is to form a lobby group for the cattlemen, I'm all for that. But if you're talking about violent action, I, for one, am opposed to this. We have a good life here and make a good living. Like you I also started with nothing and built the farm from the ground up--I was raised in the city. We took a pounding during BSE but I think we'll make a very good buck this year and next. So I have no intention of going on some violent crusade.
We earn our whole living from our operation. And for those who think you can't consider this---we bought heifer calves for .86 cents six weeks ago (550 lbs.) for a cost to us of $468. We'll background them cheaply and grass them next summer to 1,000 lbs. I think they'll be, say, .80 next summer at 1,000 lbs. or $800. That gives us a gross return of $332 per animal. Put that over 800 animals and it's not too shabby. And that's if the border doesn't open--what will the price on these calves be in the fall if the border opens?
My point is that I think there is still opportunity to make a good living. If you really want a consistently good living, you need a marketing board which I am also in favor of. But the last time I brought this up there was zero support around here. Marketing boards give producers control over their own futures and mean they can make a good living all the time.
By the way, very interesting posts Bez.

[SASH]

I've been watching this thread for awhile now and though I disagree with the militant attitude of the farmers in Quebec and I'm pretty sure it wouldn't fly on the prairies anyway, I do think something has to be done. What I might propose would be something like the Canadian Wheat Board or the Canadian Meat Board if you like that would be responsible for getting cattle producers the best money for their product. I would also think that the technology would be in place to track every animal through the system right to slaughter. If this could be done, perhaps the producer could be rewarded for beef that grades higher. This would allow producers to use the genetics they want to produce top quality beef without being docked because the hide isn't black or whatever the flavour of the day may be at that time. Also, with a marketing unit like this, a producer could direct his animals into a market where he can maximize his profit. For example, the genetics of my herd are set up for grass fed beef. Right now, I can only sell about 30% of my production off my farm. The rest of the animals head to the feedlot where they are presumably grain fed. If I could tap that grass fed market through a marketing board, it would make more money for me and so on. Thoughts anyone?

[greybeard]

Talk of bring Cargill to their knees seems like a bit unlikely to me. They have been around for a very long time, and operate in many different situations. What might work on a small independent plant in Quebec won’t necessarily work on Cargill.
They are very polished at making some think that they are taking care of their “friends”. Have you heard the feedlots selling to the compaining loudly?
I expect they have generations of experience in how to handle being strong armed.
They are also great magpies. They love to go in and pick the bones when someone goes broke. Look what they are doing in the North American fertilizer business.