Just when you thought you'd seen it all...

[kato]

Just starting to calm down over how slow the Aggravation program has been, what with being two years behind in Aginvest, and no progress in sight on last year's Agstability, and what to my surprise, I open the mail to find yet another debacle. Seems we were overpaid on our 2003 CITI program.

Yes, I said 2003. I need to repeat that ... 2003! I thought aginvest being two years behind was bad, but this is SEVEN YEARS AGO! Seems they want their $600 dollars back, but they've assured me that they are going to be magnanimous and not charge interest. Am I impressed? Take a guess.

Now I think I know why things are so backed up with our farm programs. They've got everybody down in the basement going through dusty old files.

It's enough to scare you off of applying for any farm support. You get a different result depending on who's desk it lands on, different answers every time you call with a question, and if they choose to, they can pull out any file, re-interpret it, and send you a bill. I have yet to hear of anyone getting a letter saying "Sorry, we made a mistake, here's a cheque"

Is there no statue of limitations on this stuff? I wonder if there are retired farmers watching their mailboxes to see if their Old Age Security is going to be garnished. What's next?


Good grief................

[per]

Kato do you think that this is a targeted turn of events? Squeaky wheel gets the grease kind of thing? I would hope not but it wouldn't be hard to believe and it would be fun if you could prove it.

[kato]

It's crossed my mind..... I'm trying to resist paranoia though. That's a slippery slope to go down, and I would hope we live in a country that's better than that.

[grassfarmer]

I can say with a fair degree of confidence that the guys implementing these programs in AB follow the posts on Agriville relating to AFSC/CAIS/agstability. That became apparent to me during a phone call I made to them after posting a rant on here about poor service/useless programs.
'nuff said.

[kato]

Perhaps they should be reading them.

It's a good way to find out what the regular "farmer on the street" is dealing with. The best truths are overheard in the coffee shop, where real people say what they really think. It's also a good way to hear the opinions of people who are not representing organizations that are afraid to step on a toe for fear they will be shut out.

Maybe it could possibly lead to someone in charge taking charge and implementing some constructive improvements.

Anybody out there listening??????

It's time to make better use of resources than digging in the archives. If the programs were set up correctly, the only mistakes that would be made would be the odd entry typo. It's time to set up programs that do not need years of review to make sure they've been applied correctly. I wonder how much it cost to find the $600 we apparently owe from a program that we never did figure out how it worked ourselves. I bet it was more than $600.

[Kathy]

Kato, if in 2003 you happened to pay "income tax",
note that the $600 dollars was part of your "taxable
income", and if they want All the 600 back, they are
stupid... as you have paid at least 25% taxes on this
amount. When they say they aren't charging you
interest, think again. So give them back $450.00
and tell them you paid the other $150 already as
taxes.

Best way to beat this insanity, is to not partake in it.
We had friends encouraging us to sign up for the
Alberta Pasture Recovery Initiative, they said they
didn't have any problems with it. But I do.

The paperwork states that you are in compliance
with all government rules and regs; you must also
list your "premise ID" number (aka accepting it as a
representation of your farm). I do not accept any
premise ID number as a representation of my ranch!
The only comparison I can think of that will make
people wake up to what a "premise ID" means to me
is: it is just like the number tatoo-ed on the Jews
forearm by the Nazis in their concentration camps.
It is the number which the "powers that be" use to
identify their "serfs". IBM developed the German's
computer system too.

Premise ID is an unnecessary number that is being
implemented to replace your "land titles certificate".
If you are required to have it? then it is a "license" to
exist in this business. The very fact that the Alberta
government has issued numbers to all the livestock
owners (that they are aware of), demonstrates that
their is NO NEED for me (the rancher) to apply for
the number - the government is tracking us by our
numbers anyways. Our business numbers, quota
numbers, RFID numbers, health-care numbers, SIN
numbers, drivers license numbers, credit card
number, phone numbers......it goes on and on. I
think that the traceability program is more about
tracking "us" then our animals.

We won't be participating in the Pasture Recovery
program. Alberta Agriculture and the federal
Agriculture departments should be scrapped.

Kato, aren't you glad you only owe them $450 and
not a lot more. I know some who received big
over-payments and saw it for what it was; they
never cashed the cheque, and yes, a couple years
later the government came back and said pay it
back dear. They just gave them the un-cashed
government cheque.

There is no "limitation" on the time that can expire
before they return to get their "self-determined"
over-payments.

[kato]

And yet there is a limit to how far back you can go and request an adjustment on your income tax.

Funny how that works eh??

[riders2010]

I know a number of people that have received this same type of error bill from 2003, some from 2005 so now all the margins change for every year after that 2003 and 2005 is used in calculation. Can you imagine the cost in administration to do all of this the paper etc.? Just wait until the rush starts next summer to do 2010, isn't that absurd 2010 will not be done until 2011 you'll be overpaid and then pay it back in 2018!!!!

[kato]

It's a sign of poor program design when there are so many adjustments. You don't see this in the income tax department. Ever. All these programs seem to be very open to interpretation when it comes to what does and does not qualify, and what the rules really mean. I've phoned a few times with questions, and have yet to find two people give me the same answer.

The last lady I spoke to sounded even more frustrated than I did, if you can believe that. I think moral in these departments must be in the pits. I don't think those people working on all these applications are getting straight answers and directions themselves.

But at least they're getting paychecks.

[wd40]

Here's the plan for AFSC - you have the right to ask for an "audit". That will put them in a "tail spin" for at least a couple of years. Every time they do one they come up with different numbers. Go figure.

[PureCountry]

Kato this is exactly why I don't apply for these things. They know enough about our operation already without me bringing them up to the minute inventory analysis on a bi-annual basis. We haven't applied for any such programs for years. The last thing I put my name in for was the Load of Hay Lottery in 2002 when they were bringing it in from Ontario. That was joke too.

And don't think that squeaky wheels don't have observers either. I made some serious rants about Cargill, Tyson and NBI a few years back, and a week later had a carcass condemned when some of our fats went across the kill floor. Not just the liver or kidneys, the whole damn carcass. No one could give me a valid explanation as to why, for an animal that had never been sick a day in its life.

Then last year when my letter came out in AB Beef blasting their radio ads about "ALL Alberta Beef is sustainably produced....", I was reported to Alberta Farm Care and the County Ag Fieldman showed up un-announced to check on our starving cows that were up to their bellies in swath-grazing.

To hell with all of them. They work for us, we pay their wages, and this is what we get.

[kato]

It would be nice to have the option of having a choice of signing up for these programs or not. Most people around here do not have an option. They have to try and sc**** up some cash any way they can. I don't know a single person who isn't enrolled in every program possible just on the off chance they may get some benefit from it.

And seven years ago,no one needed any programs at all........