Changes in the cattle business

[ASRG]

The fact of the matter is everyone of us will sell out someday...or die with our boots on...and then the cows will be sold anyway!
I do see a problem with not very many young guys stepping up to the plate, wanting to raise cattle, but then who could blame them? There are so many opportunities out there in the world that pay a lot better.
Grassfarmer: The federal government is in charge of trade and animal health regulations. They bungled the BSE thing and guys like you and me ended up holding the bag? So should they pay us for the losses from BSE......or should you and me have to pay?
I believe that yes indeed the "taxpayer" should pay for governments screw ups....after all those taxpayers elected that government to represent them? Maybe the "taxpayer" should pay the money they owe us for their "representatives" mismanagement....before they go out and spend money on fighter jets they don't need and can't afford....or build a bunch of new jails for non existent criminals?

[rkaiser]

I was hesitant to join in on this one with some simple psychology that I have been following these days.

Live "now" with no blame, have a vision of the future and move toward that vision.

However --- as grassfarmer has pointed out -- I also support a responsible resolution by the Feds over the BSE fiasco. Our argument has always been that should the Feds be responsible and pay up with taxpayers dollars, every dollar spent will generate 5 or 6 into an economy that could still use some stimulus.

As for the debate over value of animals and the economy of ranching. The only way I can look at this one is to accept the "now". The cattle biz is seriously one of the last remnants of what could be called free enterprise. And that is mainly at the grassroots level. Market manipulation at the packer level has caused the free enterprise title to be challenged beyond the farm gate.

So -- buy low, and take your chances boys. And even though it sucks burnt, we can't be overly concerned with the plight of those who CHOOSE to give up or sell into a depressed market. All death is fertiliser for life. This phrase could relate to the economy of ranching as long as the folks doing the scavenging use it for something good.

Speaking of which --- once all of us scavengers accept our cheques for the class action settlement -- including you grassfarmer --- please consider using it to buy back your industry and not just head to Costa Rica.

[kato]

I think that debating whether buying good bred cows for twelve hundred dollars is fair or not is a moot point. I don't thing they're going to be there anyway. The last cull cows we sold brought eleven hundred dollars, and that was Manitoba price, non age verified, and not all that big either. If breds are going for anything within a hundred or two of a thousand dollars, they'll be on their way to the packers, not someone's herd.

This is why cows at our place who screw up are looking over their shoulders right now. We need the cash more than we need bad cows. For the forseeable future, there will be no reluctance to cull a cow on any operation, (not just ours) which will contribute to a reduced herd.

The problem comes when the national herd is reduced to a size where one of the two big packers decide we're not worth it. Then you'll see a whole new set of woes. If anyone thinks we've got a lack of competition for our cattle now, all I can say is "You haven't seen anything yet."

The government will probably have to ante up more money in corporate welfare cheques to keep the big processors happy than what they owe us over the BSE debacle. And guess who they will be more willing to pay? Not us, that's for sure.

Every cent that gets paid out in subsidies to keep the beef processing going can be directly blamed on the BSE fiasco.

Of course we've pointed this out many times to those in charge, and it has yet to sink in.

[burnt]

Well now that I've cooled off a bit I see it is necessary to apologize for so strongly and wrongly venting my anger following Allfarmer's post. I'm sorry Allfarmer. Go do your best.

One thing I have learned a little more clearly as a result of 7 years of selling cattle far below cost of production is the value of treating others as I would like to be treated. It is a principle that has clear implications for every aspect of life - including business . . .

As for you grassfarmer, it pains me deeply to come to the realization that the scope of your rationality necessarily precludes you from seeing the difference between holding an entity (in this case - the federal government) accountable for damages resulting its actions, and asking for a bailout. I'm truly surprised that you don't see it as "just good business".

[kato]

For instance, if Revenue Canada decided someone didn't pay enough income tax, would they just go away and forget it?

No. That's not good business.

They would collect it, no matter how long it took.

As should we.

[smcgrath76]

ld - you are partly right. A lot of our
cost savings are economies of scale, and
I think at our place 1 guy could readily
run 400 cows, until there is a wreck or
you want some free time. A big part of
our savings is also in changing how we
do things rather than how big we do
them. We typically run on grass until
Jan/Feb (and no we are not in Southern
AB or the Banana Belt).
The other and harder part relates to the
people making money coming and going
from the producer. We are actively
working on ways to circumvent this and
add value as well. I think GF, RK and
others are examples that are trying to
do the same. The even harder part is
getting enough farmers to work together
to gain some economies of scale doing
that as well.

[BTOfarmallll]

Easy fer The Sellout to say, when in fact he has already Sold Out. Zero Earth Farms payin his Bills now. Whatever puts the poor fellow to be at night.......

[per]

I don't quite get your objection to One Earth BTO.

[grassfarmer]

I think he's just enjoying being a keyboard hardman Per - hiding behind an alias and spouting racist garbage against natives and Hutterites.

[littledoggie]

smcgrath - we are extremely low cost producers. We value add as well, which worked well for us until BSE when anyone who backgrounded calves got royally beat up in the marketplace. We have tried many methods of feeding in the winter, and due to excessive numbers of wildlife and some winters that had huge amounts of snowfall, have decided that the best method for us is baled and stored behind a big fence. The one thing we are not prepared to do at our age, is get bigger. Like you say, when there's a wreck it wears a person pretty thin. So how do we as PRODUCERS (because the rest of the chain are not actually producers, but value-adders) get together to address profitability? There is so much attention paid to the feedlot and packer end - when will it be our turn?

[ASRG]

littledoggie: I would say right about now is the cow/calf guys time? When i see 600 lbs steers selling for $1.50/lb I expect that is probably about as good as it gets? And just about anybody should be able to make money at those prices? Maybe I'm wrong.
Many people think calf prices are going to rise higher by fall and they may indeed be right? Somehow I doubt it. Corn prices don't look to drop this year with the funny weather down south and a high corn price will pull barley prices higher? When does the urban consumer say "beefs too high...I think I'll buy chicken!" Remember in Canada chicken is pretty high priced due to supply management....not so in the USA?
I suspect calf prices this fall will be more likely in that $1.30/lb for a 600 lb. steer than $1.60....I hope I'm wrong!

[BTOfarmallll]

Have another one QuackGrassFarmer. 50% Wrong, HATE Hutterites, LOVE Indians.........

[ALLFARMER]

No need to apologize Burnt. You put allot of great posts on here.

The reason I am on Agriville is because I choose to surround myself with people willing to tell me I am full of shit and doing it all wrong. I hate people who just smile and nodd and agree. You can't learn nothing from them. Cheers all!!

[ASRG]

All farmer: I think the price you plan to buy bred cows at this fall is a reasonable one. I guess it depends on the fall calf prices. If calf prices are "wild" a lot of people will catch "cow fever" and forget the old adage of "what goes up, must come down"!
When(if) calves are bringing $1.60/lb or $900 then that $1500 cow looks good...not so good if the market crashes and that calf is back to under $1/lb.? Remember that cow has to raise a few calves to pay for herself plus pay for her own expenses!
I think being careful in how much you pay is a good thing.

[BTOfarmallll]

And thats why I'm here AllFarmer. Yous kin always learn a thing er two from me. Glad yall appreciate me & want me to stay, stay, stay........