Farmer Association

[Steve]

Here are some words of wisdom from the retired old farmer and my motive is not I used to but going to. I would like to start with these words before I go into the topic Farmer Association.

1 One should start with a positive attitude toward new ideas and you will realize the negative side loses it's value. To clarify this statement you should not pick a new idea apart looking for all the bad things it may have and over looking all the good that was intended. The same theory could be applied to the CWB and the open market because we surely need both.Lets not dismamantle then but work to make them better because there is some good in both.

2 Start by trusting your neighbor,friend,business partner and you will realize that it is a two way street.

3 The Government is not our enemy because farmers are part of it so lets propose positive ideas in a democratic way to make any changes needed.[it may take a long time but never give up.]

4 The grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence and in most cases it is just an optical elusion.

5 Try not to chase the rainbow because you will never catch it.

6 Try new ideas to better yourself but do research before you start.

Note:
Just a word of caution make sure you have a way out if things don't work with your added value enterprise, because the soup line can get very long. Also are you readed for the stress that comes with the PASTA PLANT??????????

I will give my typing finger some rest and then start with the farmer association topic.

[parsley]

Farmer Association...What kind Steve?

1. Steve says, "......... you should not pick a new idea apart........"

.............I would suggest you measure the new idea against your "experience benchmark" . And against your personal value system. For example, is coercion a method employed to accomplish your goal in this new idea?

2 Steve says, "Start by trusting .............."

..............but don't believe everything you're told, rather observe what your neighbor does, or the company does, or what the CWB actually does. Not what they say. Can't issue licenses without change in legislation? Hmm.

3 Steve says, "The Government is not our enemy, ..... "

Nor is the government our salvation, Steve . It is a means of extracting money from people for services rendered. The services have become too expensive, the quality is poor, and the government is trying to be everything to everbody; consequently is is ineffective at most everthing. Look upon this statementet as pragmatic instead of negative.


4 Steve says, "The grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence............"

If the CWB were able, they would have long ago, provided farmers with detailed economic statistics about the 'farm-gate' premiums that the CWB claim they have garnered. FARM GATE! We must measure what we put in our pockets against what other farmers in other countries put in their pockets. The other sides of the fences have accountability.

5 Steve says, "Try not to chase the rainbow...."

The rainbow is the canola industry, the alfalfa industry, the PMU industry........... Those rainbows pay the telephone bill.



6 Steve says, "Try new ideas to better yourself but do research before you start. ......."

I agree, Steve. New ideas, and creativity, and imagination are the nucleus of wealth creation and a higher standard of living. They all stem from the individual and they all need nurturing by people who agree to work with each other, who have the same goals, within an environment that encourages development.
So let's play an association game......

There's Side A............Come play my new game. We'll have fun. We'll get tired. We'll get hungry though. We'll laugh. The rules can be changed for you because you've got a sore foot today. Will you come play?

There's Side B..............You will play this game or my gang of friends will arrest you. These are the rules and they are carved in stone. You are not allowed to play any other game. So like it or lump it. I'm your friend.

Parsley

[ianben]

Hi Steve
I agree with most of your comments above, but this discussion or whatever this form comunication is called, has got very like that pig meeting I attended.

Desperate people don't listen.

Some people have decided THE CWB IS TO BLAME, full stop. ALL NEGATIVE.

No-one has noticed what Ed Baker and I told them WHEAT IS A GREEN FUEL.

How many of those futures market wiz-kids have done their sums.

One bushel of wheat equals the cost to heat a house with gas oil or electricty for one day.
Whats your answer???
Have you ever sold for LESS!!!!
3tonnes of wheat equals 1000 litres of oil.
I sold in Oct at £60/tonne when it was worth £80 FOR FUEL.

So here is something postitive they could do today!!!!
CWB could start promoting wheat as GREEN FUEL I am sure there is a PREMIUM MARKET, global warming save the planet, Sask. has the advantage then, lowest ex farm price in the world??
I am sure, for example, a cosmetics company would like to say, made and MANUFACTURED from green products on their label. Local jobs, comunitities saved every body wins.
That wheat v canola was a bit illogical as one acre can produce either so as it is not illegal leave it up to the customer who is ALWAYS ALWAYS right.

Perhaps just talking about wheat as a fuel would make the market feel less happy as your CWB market report states.

I would SACK the man who wrote that gives entirely the wrong message to both buyers and sellers.

Regards Ian

[freebird]

Steve: You can't have both the CWB
monopoly and the open market at the same
time. You must choose one or the other
whether you like it or not.

fb

[freebird]

Steve: You can't have both the CWB
monopoly and the open market at the same
time. You must choose one or the other
whether you like it or not.

fb

[TOM4CWB]

Well very interesting...

I would say the government "should" be here to facilitate the needs of the citizens they are to SERVE...

When the government starts telling me what is good for me and bad for me, especially when it comes from a group based in power 2500 miles from here, guess what? Trouble is only around the bend.

And the Liberals don't care. They even said so!

The example of the early 90's and the billions the P.C.'s spent on grain farmers has been rolled out a number of times. The P.C.'s got wiped out!!

The Liberals see no returns for spending any money out west. We are here to give money, and the sooner we stop complaining, the happier they will be!

So if anyone thinks Ottawa is here to help us, they should give their head a shake!

Local government is the only government that is held accountable to the peoples needs, and even this is a struggle for them.

We need to work together to make our lives richer. I hope Agriville is widening our horizons! I hope we can be positive and create wealth for our communities, for our sons and daughters are depending on us! And we alone are responsible for our futures, right?

[Steve]

Hi!!!!!!

I will start by comparing farming to other businesses and that is why I think a farmers association would work.

The professional people usually form associations to control the price for their services but at the same time do compete to provide the good service.

People join labor unions because they come to realize that by getting together they had greater bargaining powers. I think this started as a good thing but now some unions have lost their common sense and erased the incentive for people to work and created a lot of greedy individuals.

Farmers can apply the same theory to farming. I think the farmers should start a association and not a union because they are businessmen and not only laborers. I know how you feel it is hard to decide if you are a
businessman or laborer when you are still on the combine and its 2 in the morning.

This is my opinion how we can start a farmer association.

1 We should try and do this worldwide by using our computers and the internet to communicate and get farmers interested in starting a affiliated farmers association. I think we already have a good start with a farmer friend in the UK [Ian I liked some of your ideas and comments you made on some of the other topics and am looking forward for your input on this complex topic.]

2 Let me clarify affiliated association . It would be very difficult to have one association and try to control it worldwide, so I suggust we need a few interested farmers in each country to start a association in their respective areas.Now the affiliated part can be done on the internet to set grain prices reflecting our cost of production, because it would surely be different in every country.

3 Because of the variance in cost of production in any given country we would need a two price system, domestic and export for our grain and oil seeds. Countries that only export a very small part of their production may want to take a good look and decide if it is more profitable to cut input cost to lower production. Now don't get all upset about this bacause I am sure there are two sides to this idea.

4 The domestic price of grain should be set at a reasonable level as not to erase the incentive for farmers to produce good quality grain free of chemical contamination and at a reasonable cost to the consumer. We would have to convince our respective Governments that this system will reduce the need for subsidies, bacause it is already in the set price of grain. We should keep in mind that our respective Governments would have to help farmers financially in weather related disaster years.

5 The surplus grain can be exported at a price established by the affiliated assocoiation. The individual farmers can decide if they want to sell at this price or keep it for the next year. There are two sides to that, you can diversify and feed livestock or lower your production for next year. [I can just see how some of you negative boys go at this idea.]

I will stop at this point and by no means that I am finished with my proposed farmer association theory but my typing finger is getting stress out. Please excuse my typing errors because I never did type much, my secretary could type 120 words a minute with no errors.
will be continued.

[Steve]

To all

I am a professional man with a very positive attitude, which served me well for many years. Now for the record I owned an operated a survey company for 35 years and in the same time frame I farmed 700 acres for 25 years growing wheat barley and canola.

I will not get into negetive discussions, but will continue to propose my theory on the farmer association. Please keep in mind that I am not saying it is good or bad, right or wrong but I believe it is more constructive then complaining about the past and present. As the saying goes if the shoe fits then wear it and if it doesn't then throw it away.

[charliep]

Thanks for your participation Steve. We have had ongoing discussions about how to work together on improving prices so these questions apply to a lot of the other threads as well. I like you like to test ideas. History is a often a good place.

Two factors always seem to bugger up good grain and oilseed price stabalization ideas - mother nature and human nature. On the mother nature front, weather can do lot to impact prices with a disaster pushing prices to the moon and bumper crops pushing prices down - this year being a good example for wheat. Governments buying grain/holding off the market and farm acreage set aside programs that have been developed to date have not worked. Are there some lessons to be learned from the US/European experience with them?

Human nature is to achieve the best profit based on individuals initiative. As long as total net revenue is price times production minus expenses, there is incentive to produce. Cost structures for different farmers vary greatly with a price for one farm family providing a good living/return on investment and a similar price for a neighbor seeing them go broke. Add in the international cost of production in different countries and you have different breakeven/favaorable prices. You can then add in governments with different social/economic objectives and you have a situation where it is hard to achieve consensus/develop a program that meets different farm families needs around the world.

Do we have models from history (either agriculture or otherwise) that would show us how to approach this issue?

[freebird]

Steve: Your farm association is I
assume to try to solve a problem where
there isn't one. There is no "farm
crisis" other than the problems caused
be too much government regulation.

If you are referring to the fact that
there are less and less farmers every
year, that is only a result of better
and better technolgy, chemicals etc.
that lowers the cost of production.

There would be the same amount of
farmers whether wheat and other crops
were $50. a bushel or $3. a bushel. The
cost of land would simply adjust to
reflect the commodity prices.

If your association's goal was to get
government out of agriculture, and that
includes subsidies to farmers,
regulatory agencies such as CWB, etc,
then sign me up!

fb

[chas]

Freebird your thinking just like I did 20 years ago. But I have developed a little more insight now, onwhat seems to work and what doesn't. Just when you think you know about farming someong throws a wrench into things. I have tried all market systems that we have and have found that the more you can leave marketing to agencies that are working for you the better life is. The best farms in my neighborhood are the ones that the wealth was past on from generation to generation with good productive management and most will contribute alot of their success to cooperative marketing. Look what has happened with poultry and the dairy industries, without cooperation they were a disaster. Sorry for my try to get along attitude. Chas

[ianben]

Hi Steve
Thanks for the support.I am finding all these negatives a bit much.
I would have thought that people today knew the meaning of impossible. It no longer means NEVER just NOT YET.
Men on the moon, heart transplants.My greatuncle and his associates were the frist to predict the tides, and started a whole new science oceanography.
They knew!!!!!
We now have foot and mouth in England. More misery for those poor pig producers.
I hope grain farmers have more luck. We will need it if the attitude on this site is universal.

Regards Ian

[ianben]

Hi Charliep
I found this site on bigmac prices round the world.
http://www.economist.com/markets/Bigmac/Index.cfm
I was surprised how much they vary.
If McD can maintain different prices round the world why can't we?

All supply management system till now have not involved the individual farmer.
They have tried to control us. We can not be controled.
We must gain individually and as a whole.
By matching supply and demand, Storing surplus OURSELVES to market in times of
shortage should produce this win win situation and maintain stable prices.

Regards Ian

[chaffmeister]

ianben et al:
What's all this talk about others being negative? I assume you are talking about the anti-CWB camp. If so, I have another take on things.

I see these people - TOM4CWB, parsley, freebird and others - not as negative, but as visionary. They are not content to sit idle when things are not working. They see a better way and would like to see some changes (improvements).

These people, by stepping up to the plate and saying what they see that needs to be corrected are the ones that are going to make a difference in the long haul. They don't have the freedom to change it on their own - they know it's all about public opinion. They are expressing theirs so others may see things clearly.

And what's probably the most frustrating is that, even though they are in the majority, things don't improve. (Surveys have shown that only 1/3 of those farmers polled want to keep things the way they are. How's that for democracy.)

Those that see a "farm crisis" and yet still want to hang on to the same old institutions that have yet to prove their worth - well, I must say I just shake my head, because I don't understand that approach.

When you see something that doesn't appear to be working, are you supposed to just accept it to avoid being negative? Was Abe Lincoln negative because he saw that slavery needed to be abolished? No. Lincoln was a visionary who took a personal and political risk - and changed the world (for the better).

cm

[rockpile]

To Steve et al,
A very interesting and provocative concept, but as you can see, Steve, many are vehemently opposed to any idea of working 'together'. This is almost unique to farmers, and I can tell you with certainty, because I am involved in other endeavors, particularily in energy wholesale, that when the chips are down, fierce competitors get together in a hurry to protect their interests. Somehow, many of us have bought into the mantra that choice and individual freedom are the top protocol items. That is where Ianben and Tom4 come from. What they don't realize is that they are taking away more than they would be giving. For example, on my farm, I now have the choice of growing non-board - ie. -canola, rye, barley, oats blah, blah blah, and the choice of growing red spring wheat and durum, with the CWB doing the marketing instead. They wish to impose their freedom and remove the single desk option, thereby, removing one of my choices, with nothing in return. If they were truly sincere, they would be virulous in their demand that there be both an open market and Board option for selling all farms commodities. That is the difference between a business and idealogical choice. When one is producing a homogenous product to be melded together with other of the same, it is silly to pretend that one can extract more in pricing than another - all one can do is hope someone else gets less for the same product and you get more. That hardly sounds progressive, but appears to be more predatory. So, is there value in a farmer association - of course, but how can it succeed when so many attack the ones we've already developed, and champion a system that reduces everything to the lowest common denominator?
Rockpile