Bucket's cheap milk

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Bucket's cheap milk

Jan 11, 2018 | 17:41 1 I saw your comment in another thread bucket how cheap milk might be ok. Interesting timing as Shiv Chopra passed away January 7th. He was the Health Canada scientist who was fired after testifying before a Senate committee that their own government bosses pressed them to approve the rGBH drug (a growth hormone to increase milk production), despite questions about its safety. Luckily there was a large enough public outcry and the Government decided not to allow it's use in Canada although it is used in the USA.

The evidence shows that elevated levels of insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1), which has been linked to the development of various cancers, have been found in people who drink milk or eat meat from rBGH-treated cows.

I'd prefer not to drink that milk, however cheap. Reply With Quote
ajl
Jan 11, 2018 | 18:32 2 Milk has been selling as low as 0.75 US per gallon in some parts of the US midwest recently as a loss leader. BST is a naturally occurring hormone so it is likely perfectly fine and since it has been in use in the US since the mid 1980's it, like GMO canola has stood the test of time. There are non rBST product available in the US available as well for those who prefer it. Why do low income Canadians need to subsidize wealthy dairy farmers in Canada? Typical producer prices for milk are currently around 0.50 cdn per litre in the states but in the last 5 yrs have been as low as 0.40 and as high as 0.63 in the last five year compared to 0.80 right now in Canada. Reply With Quote
Jan 11, 2018 | 18:40 3
Quote Originally Posted by ajl View Post
....it is likely perfectly fine....
Is that a scientific opinion? lol

By the same token why do low income Canadians need to subsidize wealthy grain farmers in Canada? Reply With Quote
Jan 11, 2018 | 18:41 4
Quote Originally Posted by ajl View Post
Milk has been selling as low as 0.75 US per gallon in some parts of the US midwest recently as a loss leader. BST is a naturally occurring hormone so it is likely perfectly fine and since it has been in use in the US since the mid 1980's it, like GMO canola has stood the test of time. There are non rBST product available in the US available as well for those who prefer it. Why do low income Canadians need to subsidize wealthy dairy farmers in Canada? Typical producer prices for milk are currently around 0.50 cdn per litre in the states but in the last 5 yrs have been as low as 0.40 and as high as 0.63 in the last five year compared to 0.80 right now in Canada.
Ajl, have you compared what Americans pay for beef compared to what Canadians pay? Anytime I have looked on sale flyers of Canadian vs American, Canadian beef is usually 50% more expensive than American beef in Canadian dollars. How do you explain this, there is no supply management in Canadian beef? Reply With Quote
Jan 11, 2018 | 18:59 5
Quote Originally Posted by Hamloc View Post
Ajl, have you compared what Americans pay for beef compared to what Canadians pay? Anytime I have looked on sale flyers of Canadian vs American, Canadian beef is usually 50% more expensive than American beef in Canadian dollars. How do you explain this, there is no supply management in Canadian beef?
I believe the word is Collusion Not supply management...

Net effect to the consumer is the same, but less parties benefit.
Last edited by AlbertaFarmer5; Jan 11, 2018 at 19:15.
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Jan 11, 2018 | 19:00 6
Quote Originally Posted by grassfarmer View Post
Is that a scientific opinion? lol

By the same token why do low income Canadians need to subsidize wealthy grain farmers in Canada?
Cant wait to hear what you mean by this comment comparing the two Reply With Quote
Jan 11, 2018 | 19:13 7 Jeepers grass, at least post the rest of the story instead of being a fake headline making douchay.

So your paragraph plus.....

Some studies have shown that adults who drink milk have about 10% higher levels of IGF-1 in their blood than those who drink little or no milk. But this same finding has also been reported in people who drink soy milk. This suggests that the increase in IGF-1 may not be specific to cow's milk, and may be caused by protein, minerals, or some other factors in milk unrelated to rBGH. There have been no direct comparisons of IGF-1 levels in people who drink ordinary cow's milk vs. milk stimulated by rBGH.

At this time, it is not clear that drinking milk, produced with or without rBGH treatment, increases blood IGF-1 levels into a range that might be of concern regarding cancer risk or other health effects.

And the link https://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancer...h-hormone.html Reply With Quote
ajl
Jan 11, 2018 | 21:51 8 Beef in Canada is where the high margins come from to keep the lights on and the management paid in Canadian food stores. Have occasionally seen some off those flyers and do see some significant price difference. Trouble with Canada is that its population is too thin in most areas to get competition so prices are higher. Margins on processed foods such as cereals, bread, crackers etc, are pretty thin so that stuff can be quite cheap in the stores here. Reply With Quote
Jan 11, 2018 | 22:10 9
Quote Originally Posted by vvalk View Post
Cant wait to hear what you mean by this comment comparing the two
Seriously though SM has to be the most subsidized industry in Canada. Lets just call as spade a spade. The dairy farmers have a eally good stable industry and excellent low risk incomes. But somebody does pay a hefty price for that . Reply With Quote
Jan 11, 2018 | 22:14 10 Hey Grass lets bring in Sm for beef in canada. T bone will be $20/lb and you will have to divide your herd by 10 Reply With Quote
Jan 11, 2018 | 22:22 11
Quote Originally Posted by Hamloc View Post
Ajl, have you compared what Americans pay for beef compared to what Canadians pay? Anytime I have looked on sale flyers of Canadian vs American, Canadian beef is usually 50% more expensive than American beef in Canadian dollars. How do you explain this, there is no supply management in Canadian beef?
So by your argument why do we need supply management then Reply With Quote
blackpowder's Avatar Jan 11, 2018 | 23:19 12 Whether or not we disagree with sm, are we ok with the disappearance of the majority of the industry otherwise?
The same border that protects also hinders in other ways. I fundamentally disagree with sm in sevefal ways.
But a certain number of spin off losses would incur with its demise. It may not be solely about the millionare at the head of the line or the poor who pay too much for milk.
Dont have the answers but sm is one of the last made in canada's at the supermarket. Reply With Quote
Jan 11, 2018 | 23:27 13 Buckets milk would freeze solid here tonight , already -35 c ⛄️ Reply With Quote
Jan 11, 2018 | 23:53 14 Sm in the beef sector would mean a shrink in the beef cow herd from approx 14 million to 1.6 million head to supply the domestic market! Reply With Quote
Jan 12, 2018 | 00:13 15 Dang I think your math is flawed we only export less than 50% beef, and as gf says it is reciprocal as there is lots moving north.
SM I am now personally against it but building the price of quota into the price of comodity is all wrong, its like compound interest by doing that ,no more output just more cost. Reply With Quote
Jan 12, 2018 | 00:33 16 Don’t forget about the 8-900k dairy byproduct that ends up as beef. 58lbs per cap consumption 36mil pop 850lbs carcass approximately 2.5m head. Reply With Quote
Jan 12, 2018 | 05:57 17 My view on supply management has always been that there are a lot of problems with it, but the price of milk is not one of them.

Milk is quite affordable and there is far less difference in price, compared to the U.S., than is generally made out to be. I have done real-time, in-store comparisons in the past that confirmed that. You can too, if you disagree.

The problems lie in stupidly, needlessly and unfairly limiting opportunity for both producers and processors.

In that way, there are likely hundreds of millions of dollars in lost business opportunities and an enormous lack of selection in products.

And there should be no value on quota.

But Canadians love when someone makes all their decisions for them and guarantees their well-being, you know?
Last edited by burnt; Jan 12, 2018 at 06:05.
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Jan 12, 2018 | 06:51 18 there is something wrong , when quota gets that valuable .
that being said .

Hamloc and alberta 5 , make a good point.

it is more about who reaps the rewards.
with beef it is not the farmer.

like what happens when supply management goes.
milk prices drop
BSE is allowed in
a lot of dairys go down the tube.

industry consolidation.
one or 2 big milk co.s rule the roost.

the big corps pay the dairy's what ever they can get away with.

price of milk to consumer goes back up.
market control , like beef

same $ s , just now going to a different place.

when things get too bad for the dairys .
the govt. / taxpayer has to save them with programs like the
United states does. cow buy backs , food programs etc.

the end result is supply management is a social program.
where do you want the money?
spread across the country , or with a few giant milk corporations. Reply With Quote
Jan 12, 2018 | 07:18 19 I just was reading that milk was cheap in an area of the states. ..probably due to an regional oversupply. ...I have no idea why but this discussion got me thinking. ...

Why if milk is priced the way it is in Canada does it never go down....and why does Canada protect only one sector of agriculture to this degree...

Even the other day to a sold out crowd at the crop production show Lyle Stewart had to hand out money to prairieland exhibition .....government money for a sold out admission and exhibitor paid for show.....that's stupid.... Reply With Quote