Windpower Alberta

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Windpower Alberta

Dec 14, 2017 | 11:00 1 Latest estimate for new windpower 3.6 cents per KWhr. Cheaper than N gas. Cheaper than Hydro. New projects to start in Southern Alta. Reply With Quote
SASKFARMER3's Avatar Dec 14, 2017 | 11:04 2 Yea we believe it’s all great Reply With Quote
Dec 14, 2017 | 11:34 3 I wish I had sacks inside info because on the surface 3.6cents looks good to me. Mabry we should go to time of day metering like they do in a lot of Europe as power is cheap in the late night hours, spread the load out. It would be nice to have all the figures before jumping to conclusions. Reply With Quote
ajl
Dec 14, 2017 | 12:08 4 Bridge salesman is back out again. Allright slow learners: listen carefully. When green energy is quoted at a ridiculously low price it is because they are leaving important details out. These details include: how much back up power and at what price is needed because of wrong time of day generation. 2) What is the cost of grid enlargements to get this new development interconnected. 3) How much carbon credits are involved. These details are left out every time and it is why so called green energy is not competitive with good old fashioned coal fired generation which works. Reply With Quote
Dec 14, 2017 | 13:19 5 ajl all good questions, that's why I asked but you didn't fill any either just more exercise jumping to conclusions. Reply With Quote
Dec 14, 2017 | 14:42 6 Sounds good, but the proof is in the pudding ....... or details. Reply With Quote
Dec 14, 2017 | 16:17 7 We are signed up with one of these wind farms and it been going on for 10 years now, they were hoping to build now that the ndp are in Alberta and liberal are in . They were telling us that they were going to get $.38 a kwh not $.035, said they needed that to make it work. Reply With Quote
fjlip's Avatar Dec 14, 2017 | 22:01 8
Quote Originally Posted by bullshead View Post
We are signed up with one of these wind farms and it been going on for 10 years now, they were hoping to build now that the ndp are in Alberta and liberal are in . They were telling us that they were going to get $.38 a kwh not $.035, said they needed that to make it work.
Now THAT # I believe... Reply With Quote
Dec 14, 2017 | 23:04 9
Quote Originally Posted by bullshead View Post
We are signed up with one of these wind farms and it been going on for 10 years now, they were hoping to build now that the ndp are in Alberta and liberal are in . They were telling us that they were going to get $.38 a kwh not $.035, said they needed that to make it work.
Now that I would like to see, me thinks you have your decimal in wrong place,o look there goes another flying pig. Reply With Quote
Dec 14, 2017 | 23:17 10 From what has been studied, sounds like more carbon is produced in building, transporting, and installing a wind mill than it will save over its functional lifespan. Reply With Quote
Dec 14, 2017 | 23:33 11 Yes but it's OK because all those global warming gases caused by the production of those turbines are mostly created in China or Korea so they shouldn't affect us here. Reply With Quote
Dec 15, 2017 | 08:19 12 you guys shouldn't bring up facts like that , you will be told to leave the discussion Reply With Quote
Dec 15, 2017 | 08:52 13 They might be able to produce it for that but they need that price to make the project profitable, so maybe the the oil industry isn't the only be subidized greatly. Reply With Quote
Dec 15, 2017 | 09:10 14
Quote Originally Posted by bullshead View Post
We are signed up with one of these wind farms and it been going on for 10 years now, they were hoping to build now that the ndp are in Alberta and liberal are in . They were telling us that they were going to get $.38 a kwh not $.035, said they needed that to make it work.
So wind power is 4 x as high as SaskPowers current rate and backup power is still required.

Ok........🙈 Reply With Quote
LEP
Dec 15, 2017 | 09:36 15 Ontario did deals at .80/ kWh to get the first batch of windmills going. I don't remember the size of projects but it wasn't insignificant. So .38/ kWh is likely in the ballpark. Reply With Quote
Dec 15, 2017 | 09:38 16
Quote Originally Posted by LEP View Post
Ontario did deals at .80/ kWh to get the first batch of windmills going. I don't remember the size of projects but it wasn't insignificant. So .38/ kWh is likely in the ballpark.
Wouldn't that make running aeration fans fun. Reply With Quote
fjlip's Avatar Dec 15, 2017 | 09:45 17
Quote Originally Posted by Oliver88 View Post
So wind power is 4 x as high as SaskPowers current rate and backup power is still required.

Ok........🙈
The whole idea is bonkers but the FACTS are never clearly stated, what a money losing fiasco!
They only last 15 years, then fall down, if not earlier. Huge upkeep costs to CHINESE bearings etc.
What a pile of scrap iron.
There are pics already of worn out broken ones in USA, have any pics?
Hope they have a recycle fee too pay Gov? Reply With Quote
Dec 15, 2017 | 15:30 18 This feel good story of another unreliable being brought to life reminds me of the old Vancouver stock market definition of a promotion.

At the beginning, the promoter has the idea and the public has the money.

In the end, the public gets stuck paying for the idea and the promoter has all the money.

Strange that the experienced labour lawyer Notley never heard about these type of promotions before. LOL Reply With Quote
Dec 15, 2017 | 15:59 19
Quote Originally Posted by LEP View Post
Ontario did deals at .80/ kWh to get the first batch of windmills going. I don't remember the size of projects but it wasn't insignificant. So .38/ kWh is likely in the ballpark.

I'm not so sure that the .80 applied to wind.

That .80 cent thing was the early price paid for some solar installs. I know a lot of guys around here put up those 10KW jobbies and are very happy - repeat - very happy with the return.

Why not, at a 90% subsidy rate? Imagine getting $10/bu for soys and then another cheque for $90/bu.

But we almost went into meltdown a while ago at the coffee shop when one of them said that he would never do it for his own electrical needs because he couldn't afford it.

Got pretty quiet when I asked him why he thought the rest of us could...

The gov't was not expecting so many to sign up for that so after a few years it was cut back to .60 or something like that.

Don't take my figures as being right accurate though, but I know they're close. Reply With Quote
Dec 15, 2017 | 16:01 20
Quote Originally Posted by agstar77 View Post
Latest estimate for new windpower 3.6 cents per KWhr. Cheaper than N gas. Cheaper than Hydro. New projects to start in Southern Alta.
That's a load of complete BS - other than the "estimate" part.

What else have you got for sale, agstar77? Reply With Quote
LEP
Dec 15, 2017 | 17:18 21
Quote Originally Posted by burnt View Post
I'm not so sure that the .80 applied to wind.

That .80 cent thing was the early price paid for some solar installs. I know a lot of guys around here put up those 10KW jobbies and are very happy - repeat - very happy with the return.

Why not, at a 90% subsidy rate? Imagine getting $10/bu for soys and then another cheque for $90/bu.

But we almost went into meltdown a while ago at the coffee shop when one of them said that he would never do it for his own electrical needs because he couldn't afford it.

Got pretty quiet when I asked him why he thought the rest of us could...

The gov't was not expecting so many to sign up for that so after a few years it was cut back to .60 or something like that.

Don't take my figures as being right accurate though, but I know they're close.
Yes that's right it was solar. Sorry. Reply With Quote
Dec 15, 2017 | 18:13 22 Well it is an estimate after all Reply With Quote
Blaithin's Avatar Dec 15, 2017 | 22:32 23
Quote Originally Posted by fjlip View Post
The whole idea is bonkers but the FACTS are never clearly stated, what a money losing fiasco!
They only last 15 years, then fall down, if not earlier. Huge upkeep costs to CHINESE bearings etc.
What a pile of scrap iron.
There are pics already of worn out broken ones in USA, have any pics?
Hope they have a recycle fee too pay Gov?
The first airplanes had short lifespans too. Yet engineers learnt from each model and improved on the designs until you arrive now, 100 years later, functioning airplanes for much longer.

Can’t leant and improve upon something unless you work on it. Look at original trestle turbines. They are the ones that had high bird mortalities because birds would nest and hunt from the trestles. Engineers learnt from that, designs were modified, no more trestles, no more nesting birds.

I live at a wind farm. Going on seven years old. They look pretty good for being half way through their lives. Remind me in 7 more years to let you know how they’re still going. Reply With Quote
Dec 15, 2017 | 23:11 24 Don't come on here posting your facts Blaithin, they don't like facts around here! Reply With Quote
LEP
Dec 15, 2017 | 23:54 25 Personally, I don't have a problem with adding solar and wind as long as they keep existing gas and coal as backup.

If they can get contractors to sign up for 1.7 or 3.6 cents per kw then I'm all in.

Just don't tell me to abandon existing generation capacity for seasonal capacity plus a backup. Reply With Quote
Dec 16, 2017 | 08:56 26 In Alberta our power bill is made up of the energy cost, the transmission cost, the distribution cost, a hokus pocus thing called a “rate rider”, and of course administration cost.

The energy cost is usually the insignificant part of the bill. The transmission and distribution costs are the huge numbers and are never mentioned by news media. How are wind and solar transmission and distribution costs calculated? Same as conventional power or 5x higher??? Reply With Quote
Dec 16, 2017 | 09:34 27 Very good point poorboy. The "cost of generation" is very different then the "cost at my receptacle" Reply With Quote
Dec 16, 2017 | 12:27 28 Here's an interesting graphic on electricity utility debt in Canada.


http://boereport.com/2016/03/08/albe...-utility-debt/



Apparently the Ab govt has decided that $1.36 bil is not too much to pay to shut down the perfectly good coal plants early.


Ah yes. It is the old commie ideology vs common sense fiasco again from the No Damn Prosperity girls.

Where's the next Ralph Klein when you really need him? Reply With Quote
Dec 16, 2017 | 15:32 29
Quote Originally Posted by poorboy View Post
In Alberta our power bill is made up of the energy cost, the transmission cost, the distribution cost, a hokus pocus thing called a “rate rider”, and of course administration cost.

The energy cost is usually the insignificant part of the bill. The transmission and distribution costs are the huge numbers and are never mentioned by news media. How are wind and solar transmission and distribution costs calculated? Same as conventional power or 5x higher???
Is there any way that adding more of a less reliable and less consistent power source will not cause those fixed costs to increase, regardless of how cheap it is to produce that power source when the wind is blowing? Which as already noted, is the larger portion of the cost of a power bill. There is likely more to the story than simply the cost of generation. Reply With Quote
Dec 16, 2017 | 17:30 30
Quote Originally Posted by AlbertaFarmer5 View Post
Is there any way that adding more of a less reliable and less consistent power source will not cause those fixed costs to increase, regardless of how cheap it is to produce that power source when the wind is blowing? Which as already noted, is the larger portion of the cost of a power bill. There is likely more to the story than simply the cost of generation.
Have you guys forgotten what took in place in AB? The Conservative Government and the powerline scandal which met strong opposition in my area led by Joe Anglin. This is what you are paying for with your high transmission charges etc.

Here is an extract with the rest of the article linked below:

"Unique in North America

Toronto lawyer Donald Bur confirms that assessment. Bur, who has represented landowners against Alberta's electrical regulators, calls the whole situation unique in North American politics. The $16-billion plan has no precedent or parallel on the continent, adds Bur.

In fact no other jurisdiction has proposed to build eight times its existing transmission infrastructure at taxpayers' expense with no public needs assessment, explains Bur. Nor has any other jurisdiction then proposed to give away the infrastructure to two private transmission companies (Atco and AltaLink) along with a promised rate of return of nine per cent. And mostly to enhance power exports to the United States."

http://https://thetyee.ca/News/2011/02/08/AlbertaElectricity/ Reply With Quote