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SASKFARMER3's Avatar Dec 2, 2017 | 09:24 1 Name:  23755774_1998464383727689_8369594290029167096_n.jpg
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I have been on the road this week and funny all the new super farms seem to have a few things in Common.

Out side money has to be involved, Because most were nothing less than five years ago.

Yesterday i drove by a new farm that wasn't around 5 years ago that has Basically its own railway siding, New Bins that looks like the silver silo at Regina plus Shop like South country and other fertilizer and equipment sheds. 20 mill would be a good guess.

So how does one get investors and keep the party going.

Every investor expects a profit.

But again i have no jealousy towards any of these farms like some on here might feel. Hell if you want to run Walmart and i am happy with the Dollar store, its whatever rocks your world. Yes their is a place for Walmart but don't some Dollar stores make out almost as good.

I have no desire to farm 200 or 750 quarters of land. Most farmers don't either. But are we the next dinosaur that will be replaced. The smaller farms that are still mom and pop or Brothers or Uncles.

I wrote a week ago about financing a pyramid farm and talk to any one in Banking and they will agree it happens in a rising market. Knowing When to get out and let another take over is the big challenge because with every scheme their is a correction.

But on out side investment i have no clue how to set it up how it would work and how a farm in Saskatchewan can pay for millions of dollars of infrastructure and equipment and still give all investors a return plus the principle owners a return with todays prices.

The USA i always say is two years ahead of us. What happens their eventually happens north of the border. So are these Super farms the next challenge. Last winter in ND and Minnesota a very large farm went down. I remember this farm from travels to Fargo Big Iron. Impressive lots of Equipment buildings etc. Your dream farm. But when all the ashes were settled their wasn't a penny left. Also last winter a super super farm went down further east after that was all settled they were 100 mill short or more. Mind boggling.

But some will say this is Canada where nothing like that can happen.

I say GMC was always considered to big to fail. HA HA HAH like that didn't happen but the USA and Canada did resurrect and they continue today. A Farm won't be resurrected.

So if your using some one else Capital to build your dream farm how is it done.

Some one explain to me, please.

Ag is a changing business and we have to adapt and change or we will be replaced. Is it to late to join the party, I felt land peaked in our area two summer ago with Redland sale and yes nothing has sold lately higher than that. So stable prices since that time. Nothing is really moving in our area. If something comes up its snapped up now by locals usually. New Canadians who are farming or young guys getting started. So yes Its a stable environment in our area. We lost the three big Super farms that had big money or investors. Two went out of Business and the third picked the top to leave and did very well. One out of Three isn't bad.

But going to 20000 or 40000 acres has more costs more risk and some reward if you call it correct. One could risk the entire farm and probably find a lending institution that would borrow say $40,000,000.00 to create a super farm. Using the scheme i described last week. But Why risk ones own assets. The investor farm interests me.

Find investors for 40 mil and put your expertise and land owned as part of the rental area. You still own. I have know idea.

So again if any one has some idea on this share please.

Because maybe what will be left is few small family farms and large land renter land owner Corporate giants.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Yes i said i don't want to go over our size but maybe this is a way to grow to the next level a few years down the road. Looking for all ideas. My Grandfather had 4 that my dad took to 12 we took to 40 for my son to take 40 to 120 i feel is not possible under the current way of farming.

I understand that moving to a farm manager position is different than owner, or shareholder. Good years the board meetings are easy to do but tough times are hard to keep the parade going. Your giving up control.

Again any help would be greatly appreciated.

Confused on how to continue to the next step or should one just sit back and coast and see what comes next.

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SASKFARMER3's Avatar Dec 2, 2017 | 09:49 2 Ok 5% return on your money.

Again any one have any idea, Im stuck.

Is this the new farm landscape in Saskatchewan or a passing fad. Reply With Quote
Dec 2, 2017 | 10:02 3 why farm if you have investors telling you what to do, you might as well get a 9 to 5 job and forget about faming and all its risks. Take the evenings and weekends off. Reply With Quote
LEP
Dec 2, 2017 | 10:14 4 I think first you need to go to the Gary Pike school of communication. You need to be able to over promise and under deliver and not feel bad about it. Reply With Quote
Dec 2, 2017 | 10:19 5 First convince FCC and other lenders that the textbook and foreign way is the only way to farm.
Then take them to the cleaners for millions as the manager while you settle your bankruptcy.
Lol. Only in Canada. Reply With Quote
Dec 2, 2017 | 10:39 6 Heres the link to the farm website that SF3 is talking about:

http://www.kambeitzfarms.com/ Reply With Quote
Dec 2, 2017 | 11:02 7 Sf3 why worry and wonder what other big guys are or how they are doing it. Who gives a fuck. From what I can see your operation is excellent. Reply With Quote
SASKFARMER3's Avatar Dec 2, 2017 | 12:02 8 I’m just wondering today on how the next generation will farm go ape or stay same or wait for correction.

One son that’s away in Saskatoon would like to farm some day and I will rent him mine at a big discount youngest still in school so not sure on him.

Looking at ideas Reply With Quote
Dec 2, 2017 | 12:55 9 I drive by this farm every time I go to Regina. It will be interesting to see if these farms can succeed in a tougher farm climate. We saw what happened to One Earth farms.
We have a lot of farms that have grown to sizes previously thought impossible. Most of these still have a large family involvement and have not gone to a pure corporate model. Most are still "family farms".
We then all look at some of these new outfits that are so different than our own and pass judgement on if they will be successful. I am sorry to say that many in Sask seem to delight in the failure of the big operations. Misery likes company and many who feel the challenges of farming today I guess feel better if others go down, especially if seen as a threat to their own way of doing business.
I think of the book The Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell. It delves into successes of people and how timing and environment and make a huge difference. It will take years for us to really see if the way of the future is this or is it a blip in time? Reply With Quote
Dec 2, 2017 | 13:06 10
Quote Originally Posted by biglentil View Post
Heres the link to the farm website that SF3 is talking about:

http://www.kambeitzfarms.com/

It's a beautiful yardsite to service this very diversified operation. I heard that they have the largest rock crusher in the province and they farm a lot of land. KF exemplifies what can be done with a basic family farm, if you don't mind investing so much into management. They are all in on ag business. Reply With Quote
helmsdale's Avatar Dec 2, 2017 | 13:07 11 Another sucker is born every day, and those like Gary Pike are more than willing to take advantage them. Everyone is seeking "safe" ROI. Bonds no longer beat or even keep up to real world inflation unless you're willing to play in the riskiest... UK 10yr is 1.23%, German 5yr is negative, 10 year is only 0.3%.

Remember those Spanish, Italian, and Greek bonds everyone was shitting their pants about a few short years ago? Does anyone honestly think their 10yr commitments are worth the risk at 1.4%(spain), 1.7%(italy), or even 5.3%(greece).

Stocks look incredibly frothy with most indices posting p/e ratios > 20. Some like the nasdaq or Russell 2000 pushing north of 40.

Housing? Bitcoin? Good God everything looks frothy!

So when a sharp dressed business person tells everyone that they can make 5-10% ROI and they show a bunch of suckers graphs of land prices, commodity prices, and farm asset inflation over the last 10 years without the usual "past performance is not indicative of future results" disclaimer, they lap it up!

How much longer can this possibly continue? Financialization seems to have accrued massive rewards to those who can create ever more opaque financial instruments to garner access to cheap credit and leverage. It all reeks of Ponzi, or Madoff, but until this meets it's inevitable end, things just seem to be getting weirder. Reply With Quote
Dec 2, 2017 | 13:27 12 Hey my input to thread is of little importance.
But ive gone from a mddle size operator to large scale. Had around 11,000 acres my self 6000 plus acres of crops and 3500 sheep for wool. With 1 workman and occasional casuals.

Then went to larger scale joint farming operation 27,000 acres of crop all leased or rented land and sheep got scaled back.

Well after 3 years im going back to doing my own thing with one workman my son and myself.

Doesnt help with sask3 question maybe im backwards my im not driven maybe its not actually that effiecient when its supposed to be, maybe having 5 workman and us 2 two bosses and casuals is a headache.

Plenty of reasons.

Sold all equipment i had when we started and we leased new.

Anyway finishing comment owning land is king not renting/leasing in my opinion
Last edited by malleefarmer; Dec 2, 2017 at 13:34.
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SASKFARMER3's Avatar Dec 2, 2017 | 13:56 13 The farm I drove by really wasn’t much of a farm five years ago. Most land was rented out.

Yea mallee I agree big looked great and now your back to normal with family and a guy.

I’m just wondering how we get to owning 120 quarters time I’m in the ground if we continue as each generation did increase the owned land by 3 times.

Ok sipping the new Sask cherry whisky in sled shack fixing the solar power unit. Had time to reflect. Reply With Quote
Dec 2, 2017 | 13:58 14 Agree Mailee. Owning land is where it’s at.
Whoever wants to be kissin some investors’ ass have at it.
Everyone has to set their own goals and most of all be happy and satisfied with your own progress and growth curve.
There is always a way to work the next generation in-likely involves a lot of give on the older gen part, and a lot of drive (off farm work, additional enterprise, ?) on the younger gen part. Reply With Quote
farmaholic's Avatar Dec 2, 2017 | 14:43 15 What jamesb describes is "schadenfreude"....taking pleasure in other people's misery.

In a way, most of us probably could have done what they did....if you are slick and got the balls! Good on them....they've done an amazing job of selling themselves! The only thing I don't like is the young "farmers"(real potential farmers!!!!...no sarcasm intended) in the area are shut out of the market at the hyper-inflated land prices. Hard to compete with "CASH".

Remember guys and gals.... if the investors aren't tied into a deal like we're talking about but outright own the land and they're looking for a tenant on their own..... you don't have to make it worth their while paying big rent on the land! If their only return on investment will be rent on land that has probably plateaued or possibly see a slight correction(how much more appreciation could possibly be left?)....why make it worth their while. Maybe "you" should own it at the end of "your" career! But around here people trip over themselves and others paying rent that does make it worth the investors while.

fucking feudalism/serfdom is evolving.

We have a base to build on.... only rent 30 acres. I would rather buy than rent! If this thing turns around I can afford to be wrong(have bought too high) on a bit of land. And I'm willing to be if it's the right stuff! Always looking to expand the Slum of the Ghetto.... annex stuff that touches!
Last edited by farmaholic; Dec 2, 2017 at 14:47.
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SASKFARMER3's Avatar Dec 2, 2017 | 16:16 16 I always believed in ownership over rent its way better once its paid for awesome.

But question was if three generations did the 3x increase how do we now in todays farming. Or do we just not bother.

Im still thinking in next five we will have a big opportunity to at least take it up one notch but not sure we want to go super hyper or stay where were at.

Big questions going on right now just looking for some solutions. Reply With Quote
Dec 2, 2017 | 22:19 17 I know of two brothers who make Kambeitz like a mino in and ocean. These two farm 65,000 acres, and everything is ran top notch. They are first done seeding and for the most part combines are parked before most people.
I got to meet one of the brothers about 5 yrs ago, and is the most humblist person you could ever meet. He asked me a lot about my farm and things I do to improve my operation. We talked like we’ve know each other for years. I admire people like that. Yes I do question why anyone would want to “Big”, if that’s even the word to describe an operation like that.
Couldn’t imagine what they go through in a given year. Reply With Quote
Dec 2, 2017 | 23:09 18
Quote Originally Posted by jamesb View Post
I drive by this farm every time I go to Regina. It will be interesting to see if these farms can succeed in a tougher farm climate. We saw what happened to One Earth farms.
We have a lot of farms that have grown to sizes previously thought impossible. Most of these still have a large family involvement and have not gone to a pure corporate model. Most are still "family farms".
We then all look at some of these new outfits that are so different than our own and pass judgement on if they will be successful. I am sorry to say that many in Sask seem to delight in the failure of the big operations. Misery likes company and many who feel the challenges of farming today I guess feel better if others go down, especially if seen as a threat to their own way of doing business.
I think of the book The Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell. It delves into successes of people and how timing and environment and make a huge difference. It will take years for us to really see if the way of the future is this or is it a blip in time?
Some farmers grew up on a section. Their kids learned from that and grew to 3 sections. Their children only ever saw how to farm 3 sections so now with efficient machinery, automation and technical skills the latest generation can manage 6-25 sections . Generational growth. Timing is very helpful. Some of the newest farmers have only ever had to manage profit and income tax!! There is nothing wrong with that. Reply With Quote
Dec 3, 2017 | 06:20 19 It will depend how well their oil company does!!! Reply With Quote
iceman's Avatar Dec 3, 2017 | 13:43 20
Quote Originally Posted by the big wheel View Post
It will depend how well their oil company does!!!
Here your answer Big Square Wheel

https://www.pressreader.com/canada/s...81964607800698

And for the Magpies on the site here is some further pecking you can do

http://9mpog1av5ui1hm1dt43wilsw.wpen...-Package-2.pdf

Iceman Out

Past performance is not indicutive of future success! Or is it? Reply With Quote
farmaholic's Avatar Dec 3, 2017 | 14:40 21
Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
Here your answer Big Square Wheel

https://www.pressreader.com/canada/s...81964607800698

And for the Magpies on the site here is some further pecking you can do

http://9mpog1av5ui1hm1dt43wilsw.wpen...-Package-2.pdf

Iceman Out

Past performance is not indicutive of future success! Or is it?
"Past performance is not indicutive of future success! Or is it?"

You are fucking priceless Iceman.

Remember my "cream skimmer" analogy. Board seats, create your own position.

5 cents a share in exchange for debenture loan write-downs when they are barely two cents on the exchange. Too funny!

Reduced "consultant" fees.....LOL OMG!

Magpies.... LOL Flighty, squawking, pecking bastards we are.... LOL
Last edited by farmaholic; Dec 3, 2017 at 14:46.
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Dec 3, 2017 | 15:17 22 Hahaha ice the wheel is round and rollin always one step ahead keep following you'll get there. Where's the next link to the buzzards aka INPUT. Hahaha Reply With Quote
iceman's Avatar Dec 3, 2017 | 15:24 23 Yes farmaholic I remember the creamer line and it was priceless

But enough of this speculation already guys go pull a title and see what the truth actually is.
For the record I'm nowhere near this wheel house. Just a farmer who enjoys a popcorn thread on a Sunday.

Surgeon General Iceman's Warning
Using investors money will reduce your life expectancy

Now farmaholic stop changing channels during the curling commercials and be "SMART"

Iceman Late Reply With Quote
Dec 3, 2017 | 15:30 24 You don’t have to expand a farm to fit the next generation in.

Next generation could get a plumber/gas fitter ticket. Hard to get those trades people in rural areas. Or get body shop training and set up shop. Vehicles always get damaged whether economy is hot or not. Can reduce work during seeding and harvest. Or set up safety business. Most larger farms will need a written safety plan and employee training. They don’t want to be bothered during seeding and harvest so good fit. Or farm book keeping where you go to the farm. Lots of great opportunities if you want them.

Why bother burdening the next generation with debt for farm expansion. Find an income stream that compliments the farm and use income from that to aid growth.

Could also be the older generation that pursues the newer off farm career and still helps on the farm.

Lots of opportunity for kids to come home to the farm, big or small if we think out side of the box. Reply With Quote
iceman's Avatar Dec 3, 2017 | 15:31 25
Quote Originally Posted by the big wheel View Post
Where's the next link to the buzzards aka INPUT. Hahaha
Sore topic.

Iceman failed to complete the preflight check list and now we are in a flat spin headed out to sea.

Maybe the sask party will come to the rescue of their financiers.

Dam it Iceman's too Big too Fail Bradley Reply With Quote
farmaholic's Avatar Dec 3, 2017 | 16:30 26
Quote Originally Posted by iceman View Post
Now farmaholic stop changing channels during the curling commercials and be "SMART"

Iceman Late
I've been accused of being alot of things. ....."SMART" was never one of them!

I'm AGCO stupid.

Is that what you meant! Reply With Quote
iceman's Avatar Dec 3, 2017 | 17:30 27
Quote Originally Posted by farmaholic View Post
I've been accused of being alot of things. ....."SMART" was never one of them!

I'm AGCO stupid.

Is that what you meant!
Yes Newholland smart and maybe dry hole dumb by the looks of it.

Iceman Out Reply With Quote
LEP
Dec 3, 2017 | 21:41 28 It must be a real PIA to have to shoot a new video every year, because you have changed equipment colours.

Wasn't last year's equipment red?

Of course, maybe you can use the video again in a couple years. Reply With Quote
SASKFARMER3's Avatar Dec 4, 2017 | 07:55 29 No the above farm since they started was NH.

The post was designed to explain is this the new way to farm. Out side investment because AG in Saskatchewan doesnt pay for 30 million dollar yard sites.

Or maybe it does.

Thats was my question. Because i have seen in my travels lots of great crazy new farms but when you pencil things out most dont have private rail lines in Saskatchewan.

So how does one get to this new level that was the question and god some one on here has to have a answer on that. Reply With Quote
Dec 4, 2017 | 08:00 30 Are you guys talking about that site just outside Lajord?? Reply With Quote