Interesting contradictions on the left and right

[Hamloc]

One thing that is very obvious to me is that those on the left of the political spectrum push much harder in favour of climate change and the SCIENCE of climate change. Yet this same left side of the spectrum in most instances is against GMO crops and the use of hormonal implants in cattle. Both proved by science to be safe. My personal opinion is that proving the safety of GMO's would involve far fewer variables than proving human influence on climate change. And if there is so much opportunity with green energy why does it require such large subsidies to get business to sign on? If the business model is so wonderful why are those on the right seemingly against the changes required?

One interesting note, Germany is always held up as the poster child green energy and low C02 emissions. When the latest climate conference in Bonn Germany began I was listening to news on the radio and they were talking about the fact that Germany had missed it emission targets, kind of ironic I thought. Meanwhile in Canada our emissions are still rising as well! Enjoy your Sunday and GO RIDER's pound Toronto into the turf!!!!

[chuckChuck]

One thing that is very obvious to me is that those on the left of the political spectrum push much harder in favour of climate change and the SCIENCE of climate change. Yet this same left side of the spectrum in most instances is against GMO crops and the use of hormonal implants in cattle. Both proved by science to be safe. My personal opinion is that proving the safety of GMO's would involve far fewer variables than proving human influence on climate change. And if there is so much opportunity with green energy why does it require such large subsidies to get business to sign on? If the business model is so wonderful why are those on the right seemingly against the changes required?

One interesting note, Germany is always held up as the poster child green energy and low C02 emissions. When the latest climate conference in Bonn Germany began I was listening to news on the radio and they were talking about the fact that Germany had missed it emission targets, kind of ironic I thought. Meanwhile in Canada our emissions are still rising as well! Enjoy your Sunday and GO RIDER's pound Toronto into the turf!!!!

You forgot to mention that fossil energy is also subsidized.

In many cases in many parts of the world and not necessarily here in western Canada, renewables are the cheapest option. Solar PV at 2,3, 4 cents per kwh is now coming in much cheaper than coal, gas, and nuclear.

Prices are coming down for renewables. So if we level the playing field and admit that the cost of fossil energy is subsidized then we can do a cost comparison on adding or replacing generation capacity.

I think most of the opposition to climate science is politically motivated.

There doesn't seem to be much human caused climate change denial left in the federal Conservative Party. Only one Conservative MP voted against the Paris accord.

[Hopalong]

Similar contradictions exist between free and open trade policy versus protectionism.
Civilization depends on trade and specialization in the things we do yet special interests on both ends of the political spectrum sometimes oppose it.
Not very logical to oppose the technology that makes the world a better place for the vast majority of us.

[agstar77]

It is strange that enviromentalists will believe in Global warming because they believe scientists but will not believe science that says GMO 's are safe.

[Horse]

Agstar77 I don't believe the opposition is so much to the GMOs as it is to the fact it allows so many to use glycol as a desiccant . I for 1 would have all those greedy jailed for dedicating with roundup, the only reason they use it (illegally) I might say is to get more land than they could handle otherwise.

[Klause]

Agstar77 I don't believe the opposition is so much to the GMOs as it is to the fact it allows so many to use glycol as a desiccant . I for 1 would have all those greedy jailed for dedicating with roundup, the only reason they use it (illegally) I might say is to get more land than they could handle otherwise.

Horse, could you please proofread your posts a little bit?


They come across as verbal diarrhea, no offence.


However right now pre harvest use is on the label so it is approved in that application by the PMRA and extension health Canada.

Those are the facts... And no I don't like it's use either

[chuckChuck]

It is strange that enviromentalists will believe in Global warming because they believe scientists but will not believe science that says GMO 's are safe.

Perhaps this is true in regards to food safety issues.

The majority of GMOs crops use herbicide tolerance technology, primarily to glyphosate.

There are some scientists who are very concerned about glyphosate and the impact on plant diseases, soil organisms, mineral uptake and food nutrition.

There are also concerns about the impact of glyphosate on bio-diversity.

Not to mention the issues with increasing cases of glyphosate resistance weeds.

The promise of GMOs lower herbicide use is quickly fading away as herbicide resistance weeds and glyphosate resistant volunteers are requiring the use of additional herbicides like dicamba.

So there are some legitimate environmental and agronomic concerns.

[westernvicki]

As one respected old voice in the industry has quietly said if you asked for his opinion regarding glyphosate: "use it wisely or risk loosing it entirely" Is is time for mainstream to pay attention to this observation?

As for climate change, until the world divests itself of the carbon per capita formula the nations with the highest level of contribution will not be held to task, and until they are held to task nothing changes.

[dmlfarmer]

One thing that is very obvious to me is that those on the left of the political spectrum push much harder in favour of climate change and the SCIENCE of climate change. Yet this same left side of the spectrum in most instances is against GMO crops and the use of hormonal implants in cattle. Both proved by science to be safe. My personal opinion is that proving the safety of GMO's would involve far fewer variables than proving human influence on climate change. And if there is so much opportunity with green energy why does it require such large subsidies to get business to sign on? If the business model is so wonderful why are those on the right seemingly against the changes required?

I feel one of the biggest dangers to society is division. Every thing is being tribalized. Wedge politics where you defined either as left or right is preventing any compromise to find a solution or even a civil discussion about problems. Instead of arguing by facts we read insults of left or right. Adoption of any new technology is often promoted by subsidies if in the end there is an expectation such adoption will yield a return on the investment. The was and still is huge subsidization of the fossil fuel industry yet since most of this is hidden through a complex tax and royalty structure it is ignored but the funds for green technology are easy to see so they are a target. Right wing political ideology even promotes reduction of corporate taxes to stimulate an economy which is in effect a subsidy of some business over others (unincorporated). Likewise, we may not see the demonstrations against the theory of climate change but that is not to say vested interests in the fossil fuel industry are not pouring huge sums into protection of the status quo, dollars which are every bit as effective in supporting their position as the demonstrations by greens at world summits.

What is even worse is when we are so aligned with our tribe we no longer practice what we preach. I urge everyone to read NYT columnist Kristof article which deals with left vs right. It is eye opening.
[URL="https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/18/opinion/sunday/blue-states-red-states-values.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2F opinion-columnists&_r=0"]https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/18/opinion/sunday/blue-states-red-states-values.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2F opinion-columnists&_r=0[/URL]

In the end, it really comes down to education, be it on GMOs, climate change, or even birth control. In the end we really all want the same basic things in life. So lets quit the left vs right BS and get down to sharing real information instead of innuendo and insults.

[Hamloc]

I feel one of the biggest dangers to society is division. Every thing is being tribalized. Wedge politics where you defined either as left or right is preventing any compromise to find a solution or even a civil discussion about problems. Instead of arguing by facts we read insults of left or right. Adoption of any new technology is often promoted by subsidies if in the end there is an expectation such adoption will yield a return on the investment. The was and still is huge subsidization of the fossil fuel industry yet since most of this is hidden through a complex tax and royalty structure it is ignored but the funds for green technology are easy to see so they are a target. Right wing political ideology even promotes reduction of corporate taxes to stimulate an economy which is in effect a subsidy of some business over others (unincorporated). Likewise, we may not see the demonstrations against the theory of climate change but that is not to say vested interests in the fossil fuel industry are not pouring huge sums into protection of the status quo, dollars which are every bit as effective in supporting their position as the demonstrations by greens at world summits.

What is even worse is when we are so aligned with our tribe we no longer practice what we preach. I urge everyone to read NYT columnist Kristof article which deals with left vs right. It is eye opening.
[URL="https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/18/opinion/sunday/blue-states-red-states-values.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2F opinion-columnists&_r=0"]https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/18/opinion/sunday/blue-states-red-states-values.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2F opinion-columnists&_r=0[/URL]

In the end, it really comes down to education, be it on GMOs, climate change, or even birth control. In the end we really all want the same basic things in life. So lets quit the left vs right BS and get down to sharing real information instead of innuendo and insults.

Where in my post did I result to insults and innuendo. Fact GMO crop are in the opinion of science safe to use. Fact in 2016 Germany passed a law banning the growing of GMO crops. Fact Germany supports the science of climate change but does not support the science of GMO crops!!

[burnt]

Where in my post did I result to insults and innuendo. Fact GMO crop are in the opinion of science safe to use. Fact in 2016 Germany passed a law banning the growing of GMO crops. Fact Germany supports the science of climate change but does not support the science of GMO crops!!

Hamloc, don't worry about his attempt at labeling you - in the absence of anything substantial to offer in rebuttal, his favorite tactic is to falsely accuse others of being hateful or a "--phobe" or "--ist" of some kind.

The left is very proficient at using this as a means of restricting speech and honest discussion.

Which makes it so humorous to watch them recoil so feverishly when the terms "data deniers" or "terrorist supporters" are applied to them.

It's very clear that the left only may engage in name-calling.

[dmlfarmer]

Where in my post did I result to insults and innuendo. Fact GMO crop are in the opinion of science safe to use. Fact in 2016 Germany passed a law banning the growing of GMO crops. Fact Germany supports the science of climate change but does not support the science of GMO crops!!

Sorry Hamloc, I was not referring to you personally with any of my comments, it was speaking of society in general. I should have just hit the reply button rather than reply with quote. I was simply trying to add to the conversation rather than comment on your statement. I apologize for any personal slight you might have read into my comments and assure you that none were intended of you.

[Horse]

Klaus I stand by my comment, having been a shitkicker all my live and not a journalist, along with auto correct I may not get everything correct but the intent is there. You see it won't let me put an e on the end of your name.

[Klause]

Perhaps this is true in regards to food safety issues.

The majority of GMOs crops use herbicide tolerance technology, primarily to glyphosate.

There are some scientists who are very concerned about glyphosate and the impact on plant diseases, soil organisms, mineral uptake and food nutrition.

There are also concerns about the impact of glyphosate on bio-diversity.

Not to mention the issues with increasing cases of glyphosate resistance weeds.

The promise of GMOs lower herbicide use is quickly fading away as herbicide resistance weeds and glyphosate resistant volunteers are requiring the use of additional herbicides like dicamba.

So there are some legitimate environmental and agronomic concerns.

Indeed. A novel technology that could help so many and reduce energy use in agriculture was abused by one company's short term profits... Monsanto...

Bt tech... Disease resistance... Ability to fix N insect resistance...


Frost tolerance. Excess/lack of moisture.

All things GE can fix. Instead we used it to cheleate nutrients and destroy soil fauna.


200 years from now history will judge that decision in a very poor light imho

[WiltonRanch]

GE is here to stay. Rr tech has been for lack of a better word been abused stacking multiple rr crops. No shit you need dicamba. Even pre seed use at low rates with no tank mix is a practice of artificial selection. When everyone started preseed glyphosate 1/2 l was burned into the brain. Not to mention it was $10 a litre. Enough of a rate to burn the weeds back but not enough to actually kill some. Do this enough years you create a monster. If you scout properly, use what you should, and use some different chemicals in the mix that is responsible use. It’s no different than overuse of antibiotics the bugs adapt and they become useless. Treat according to what works and you don’t lose that valuable chemistry. People love to pick and choose what science best represents their religion, enviro religion, politics, or beliefs. It’s really sad that as how evolved we think we are we all fall into it.