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Dec 1, 2017 | 08:46 31 Conservatives Dishing 'A Lot Of Baloney' Over Liberal Approach To ISIL Members Returning To Canada
The issue sparked a heated exchange between Trudeau and Scheer.
11/30/2017 09:56 EST | Updated 31 minutes ago
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Lee Berthiaume, Canadian Press

OTTAWA — "The Liberals are putting the safety of all Canadians at risk by allowing (ISIL) fighters to return to Canada and proposing a 'reintegration program' and support services for them." — Conservative deputy leader Lisa Raitt

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The question of what to do about members of the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant who try to return to Canada has become a heated political battle in recent weeks.

The insinuation from Conservatives, as highlighted in Raitt's quote from a fundraising letter last week, is that the Liberals are soft on terrorists.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau shot back in a fiery exchange with Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer on Tuesday, defending the government's approach even as he accused the Tories of scaremongering.

"We have enforcement, surveillance, and national security tools that we use to a significant degree," he said.

"But we also have methods of de-emphasizing or de-programming people who want to harm our society, and those are some things we have to move forward on."

Earlier:

So is the government putting Canadians at risk with its approach to returning ISIL members?

Spoiler alert: The Canadian Press Baloney Meter is a dispassionate examination of political statements culminating in a ranking of accuracy on a scale of "no baloney" to "full of baloney" (complete methodology below).

This one earns a rating of "a lot of baloney." Here's why.

The Facts

ISIL has been all but driven from its strongholds in Iraq and Syria, but that victory has sparked fresh fears that members from countries like Canada will try to continue their fight back home.

Public Safety Minister Ralph Goodale said Wednesday that the government has identified about 250 people with links to Canada who are suspected of travelling overseas to engage in terrorist activity.

This could involve front-line fighting, training, logistical support, fundraising or studying at extremist-influenced schools.

Yet the number who have returned to Canada has remained largely unchanged at around 60 over the past two years, suggesting there has not been a sudden influx of terrorists into the country.

Still, the government has refused to say much about those 60 individuals, including who they are, where they travelled, what they may have done, and what the government is doing about them.
Feds funding research to stop radicalization

Much of the current political furor has centred on a new government centre that is funding research and programs to stop radicalization and help people leave extremist groups like ISIL.

The Conservatives have heaped scorn on the work of the Canada Centre for Community Engagement and Prevention of Violence and suggested the Liberals aren't taking a hard line with ISIL returnees.

But the government says it has deployed a full range of counter-terrorism tools for returnees, including surveillance, criminal investigations, peace bonds, and the revoking of passports.

However, it says it is ultimately up to intelligence officials and police — and not politicians — to decide who should be investigated, arrested or charged.

As for the centre, which has a budget of $35 million over the next five years, it will fund programs and initiatives run by local organizations and groups.

That means the federal government will not actually be rehabilitating or re-integrating returnees.

What the Experts Say

Several terrorism experts say there is a clear need for more deradicalization and re-integration programs in Canada — and that such efforts don't detract from holding terrorists to account.

"An intervention program does not derail or take away from other counter-terrorism measures," said Jez Littlewood, an expert on national security and terrorism at Carleton University.

"Counter-terrorism is never one-dimensional in a democracy. Prevention and re-integration are simply strands within a comprehensive counter-terrorism approach."

One of the reasons the experts say it complements other counter-terror measures is that actually convicting someone of having committed a terrorist act overseas is extremely difficult, the experts say, which is why so few cases have actually gone to court.

An intervention program does not derail or take away from other counter-terrorism measures.National security expert Jez Littlewood

Authorities do have the ability to monitor those they suspect of having nefarious plans, and even restrict their movements with peace bonds or no-fly lists.

Lorne Dawson, a University of Waterloo sociology professor and director of the Canadian Network for Research on Terrorism, Security and Society, said it would be folly to believe they aren't using those powers.

But there are limits, Dawson said, which is where re-integration and disengagement can fill the gap.

"If you can't prosecute them or there's long delays in prosecuting them or if peace bonds are only a partially effective measure ... we can just do nothing. Just let them loose in our society," he said.

"Or you try and have some kind of program available that they could be strongly encouraged to partake in these programs."

There is a valid question as to whether the police and prosecutors have the right resources, said Craig Forcese, a law professor who teaches on national security at the University of Ottawa.

"And in terms of policy reform, why have we not moved in full on the various recommendations for more effective terrorism trials proposed by the Air India bombing inquiry?" he said.

Among the inquiry's recommendations in 2009 were the appointment of a special prosecutor to handle terrorism-related trials, and clearer rules and guidance in the collection and use of secret intelligence in court cases.

But, he added, "those are questions for two governments — the present and the past."

More from HuffPost Canada:

Tories Push Trudeau To Keep FGM Warning In Citizenship Guide
Morneau Threatens Tories With Legal Action, Calls Insinuations 'Absurd'
OPINION: Tories Didn't Do Enough To Prevent Terrorism. Now Canada Is Catching Up

The Verdict

Should the Liberals dedicate more resources to ensure anyone coming back to Canada who is a member of ISIL or another terrorist group is investigated and prosecuted?

Could the government be more transparent in terms of who is returning and what is being done to ensure they don't pose a threat to society?

These are fair questions.

But the Conservatives suggest there has been a sudden influx of ISIL members into Canada, and that the government is welcoming them with open arms, the experts say.

"(Raitt's) statement is trying to play upon people's emotions in a reactionary way instead of being practical and realistic," Dawson said.

Adds Littlewood: "The statement implies things that are not correct.

"There are no factual errors in the statement — but there is an interpretation of the issue and the response of the government of the day to the problems posed by returnees."

For that reason, Raitt's statement is deemed to have "a lot of baloney."

Methodology

The Baloney Meter is a project of The Canadian Press that examines the level of accuracy in statements made by politicians. Each claim is researched and assigned a rating based on the following scale:

No baloney — the statement is completely accurate.

A little baloney — the statement is mostly accurate but more information is required.

Some baloney — the statement is partly accurate but important details are missing.

A lot of baloney — the statement is mostly inaccurate but contains elements of truth.

Full of baloney — the statement is completely inaccurate
MORE:andrew scheer ISILandrew scheer ISISbaloney meterISIS return to canada Reply With Quote
SASKFARMER3's Avatar Dec 1, 2017 | 08:53 32 Wow Chuck you will support the liberal way right till the time these thugs take over Canada then you'll pretend to join their cause. Typical Liberal.

They should be given a fair trial and then Shot.

Real easy.

You left your country to go to fight for another country and love their Gay Killing women hating ways yet when the shit hits the fan you want to come home.

Sorry A Fair trial and Bullet is all thats needed.

But To a Liberal Read poetry and find your inner peace.

What a Crock of Shit.

Really Chucky i expected more from you. Reply With Quote
Dec 1, 2017 | 09:07 33
Quote Originally Posted by SASKFARMER3 View Post
Wow Chuck you will support the liberal way right till the time these thugs take over Canada then you'll pretend to join their cause. Typical Liberal.

They should be given a fair trial and then Shot.

Real easy.

You left your country to go to fight for another country and love their Gay Killing women hating ways yet when the shit hits the fan you want to come home.

Sorry A Fair trial and Bullet is all thats needed.

But To a Liberal Read poetry and find your inner peace.

What a Crock of Shit.

Really Chucky i expected more from you.
And your wacko opinions will guarantee you will remain on the political fringes for the rest of your life. Reply With Quote
SASKFARMER3's Avatar Dec 1, 2017 | 09:20 34 Really Chuck my waco ideas.

Tell us how in your right mind a group ISSIS that clearly hates Gays, I have no issue with them just dont push your agenda on me but yes give them all the same rights as every one else.

The Same group feels women place is for Breeding and thats all. Again WTF how can you bring people like this back and they become good boys and girls in Canada.

My Waco ideas chuck Really read what your peace loving group believes in and then really think long and hard about what you think your illustrious leader believes in and explain to me how he can be on both sides of a issue.

Fair trial and Bullet.

They threw gays off buildings for fun.

They stoned Women for Fun.

They cut off hands and feet for fun and burned people alive.

Yet You Chuck think they are able to just walk right in and become good Canadian boys and girls.

Your a real special kind of Stupid i guess.


Yet at the same time a old man was on trial for Nazi war crimes that he was a punk kid when the war ended.

Yes he probably did do the crime but it was how long ago and Trudeau is forgiving every one and crying almost every hour so why not the same deal for these people as well.


You cant have your cake and eat it.

Support on TV Women and Gay rights yet bring the same people that clearly hate the group your trying to protect.

F#$K Me Cry me a river.

Chuck your should be smarter than this. Reply With Quote
Dec 1, 2017 | 09:27 35
Quote Originally Posted by fjlip View Post
A woman that escaped the Isis bastards said they would round up the men and boys, if those did not convert to Sunni, they were SHOT. The women were divided by age over and under 40. The 40 and over women were SHOT, the under 40 SOLD into sex slavery. How can a right thinking person not want all these disgusting pieces of dog shit f*cking killed ASAP? Never been such EVIL for a long time!
Very sad that the bleeding hearts running Canada don't take murder, rape and other atrocities more serious than GHG emissions. You can't send these evil animals to simply receive terrorist counselling and release them into the general public.

Would chucky, Justin or Goodale like to have one of these animals as a next door neighbour?
Last edited by Oliver88; Dec 1, 2017 at 10:13.
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Dec 1, 2017 | 09:40 36 The issue isn'w how bad ISIS is we all know they are rotten evil assholes. The issue is what to do about a small number of Canadians who joined ISIS.

The Conservatives are just making politics out of the return and spreading a lot of baloney for political gain.

They are difficult to convict without evidence. And you cant just shoot them as some have suggested as shooting POWs is a war crime too. No one in the military would support this.

As the article mentioned the, current government is using all methods to deal with this issue. Don't get sucked into the Conservative partisan political views on what is a complex issue.

Canada harbored 3000-5000 former nazi war crimminals. The Nazis were just as bad or worse than ISIS. Only a small number were convicted or deported. No doubt some of their decendents went on to hold white supremacist facist view points. Should we have deported them all without trial? Or shot them all? Reply With Quote
Dec 1, 2017 | 09:47 37 Yes sir Reply With Quote
Dec 1, 2017 | 10:05 38 Without a doubt , they should be lined up and put out of their misery . But this bleeding heart will welcome them. Hope they end up as neighbors to you and yours and not mine Reply With Quote
Dec 1, 2017 | 11:29 39 Last night my Karate classmate (ex military guy) said his still enlisted friends based in Edmonton know that Khadir is stashed near Edmonton. They are actively looking for him. They are also ready to disappear any returned ISIS fighters they can find. They say there has NEVER an affront to the Canadian military like repatriating the ISIS fighters. Reply With Quote
Dec 1, 2017 | 11:36 40 Some of you guys have watched to many Rambo movies and have very simplistic solutions to complex problems. Reply With Quote
Dec 1, 2017 | 11:43 41
Quote Originally Posted by Braveheart View Post
Last night my Karate classmate (ex military guy) said his still enlisted friends based in Edmonton know that Khadir is stashed near Edmonton. They are actively looking for him. They are also ready to disappear any returned ISIS fighters they can find. They say there has NEVER an affront to the Canadian military like repatriating the ISIS fighters.
Yeah right. what about all the 1000 s of Nazis war crimminals who came to Canada after the second world war where over 44,000 Canadian service men and women died! Reply With Quote
Dec 1, 2017 | 12:03 42 Same. Villains are villains. However, when WW2 was over there was no social media to help track vermin.

The difference between ISIS and Nazis? The Nazis wore uniforms. That's about it.

Just because some Nazis snuck in and possibly escaped doesn't mean they shouldn't have been hunted to the end.

I honestly can't understand anyone supporting Trudeau's position on this. Ralph Goodale should be utterly ashamed. Reply With Quote
fjlip's Avatar Dec 1, 2017 | 12:59 43
Quote Originally Posted by Braveheart View Post
Last night my Karate classmate (ex military guy) said his still enlisted friends based in Edmonton know that Khadir is stashed near Edmonton. They are actively looking for him. They are also ready to disappear any returned ISIS fighters they can find. They say there has NEVER an affront to the Canadian military like repatriating the ISIS fighters.
That is great news, can't wait to hear of their success eliminating those evil SOB's

"I honestly can't understand anyone supporting Trudeau's position on this. Ralph Goodale should be utterly ashamed."
I told Ralph exactly that, Please everyone tell Ralph.
Last edited by fjlip; Dec 1, 2017 at 13:01.
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fjlip's Avatar Dec 1, 2017 | 13:04 44
Quote Originally Posted by fjlip View Post
A woman that escaped the Isis bastards said they would round up the men and boys, if those did not convert to Sunni, they were SHOT. The women were divided by age over and under 40. The 40 and over women were SHOT, the under 40 SOLD into sex slavery. How can a right thinking person not want all these disgusting pieces of dog shit f*cking killed ASAP? Never been such EVIL for a long time!
Tell us you agree with SUCH evil murderous actions... Reply With Quote
SASKFARMER3's Avatar Dec 1, 2017 | 13:07 45 Chuck listen to what your saying.

Slowly hell even write it down and reread.

How in your right mind is it safe for a county to take back Issis fighters.

And reprogram them with poetry.

Are you liberals totally insane.

May they move in next door to you.

Detain at border.

Try them and then if we can’t shoot them send them back and let Siria or whoever deal with them.

I bet it’s a bullet. Reply With Quote